(02-18-2011, 01:49 AM)DickTracy Wrote: Lucas County Coroner James Patrick said autopsies performed yesterday showed that both Ms. Straub and Mr. Clarke died from asphyxiation. They had injuries to their necks but no other significant marks, he said.


Dr. Patrick said his office could not pinpoint a time of death, although it appears both died within six hours of being found.


http://beta.toledoblade.com/frontpage/20...calls.html

"dying within 6 hours of being found" sounds to me like a 10pm to 4am time frame for TOD...and using deductive reasoning since I believe TW did talk to JC around 11p and that will be confirmed by cell phone records and John S found his son at 3:50 am .....We then can conclude a reasonable TOD at between 11pm and 3:50am....That sounds familiar, I may have heard that before...Oh no wait!....I said that before....

SOURCE: Stærkeby, M. "What Happens after Death?" In the University of Oslo Forensic Entomology

Approximate times for algor and rigor mortis

Body temperature Body stiffness Time since death
warm not stiff dead not more than three hours
warm stiff dead 3 to 8 hours
cold stiff dead 8 to 36 hours
cold not stiff dead more than 36 hours
If Johnny's dad says he went to give him CPR and he was cold to the touch it may seem that he may have been dead before 11:00 if they found them at 4.

John Clarke broke into the Straubs' home and tore the bags off the victims' heads so he could give them CPR. As he did, he discovered that their faces were already cold.

Dr. Patrick said his office could not pinpoint a time of death.

i hope this is ok to post

i hope this is ok to post this

(02-17-2011, 05:15 PM)curious Wrote: In regards to the dad, the window, and basement...

First, in regards to the window, I wonder if LE confirmed that the bodies could be seen from the window based on his claims? Perhaps that was how the perps entered the house, unlocking it during a previous visit to the home...and it makes for a good cover if worried fingerprints lifted from the window might match yours.

Secondly, per Maytee's call to 911 stating something to the effect of seeing the bodies in the basement...does the home even have a basement and if so, does it have a window?

And lastly, where did LE find the puppy...in a cage, locked in a room, hiding? If it's a puppy, typically the first thing you do when you get home is let it out to go potty, were there dog prints in the snow and where do they let it out from the front, back, through the garage?

they found the puppy under the couch. poor thing was traumatized. he was biting and nipping at everyone that was trying to get him out. they had to call the dog warden to get him out. he is safe now and in good hands.

(02-18-2011, 01:25 AM)kitty1 Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 12:33 AM)allieayy Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 12:31 AM)DickTracy Wrote: Very nice pic of Johnny & Lisa....

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1...57&theater

that picture is probably my favorite that ive seen of the two of them.
oh lisa... :(

she looks just like her mom.

and her aunt...all very beautiful:( Usually a good thing.

(02-18-2011, 02:04 AM)jash Wrote:

Quote:kitty1 Wrote:
(Today 12:00 AM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:53 PM)Jane Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:50 PM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:46 PM)shitstorm Wrote:
No. Nothing has been confirmed beyond what was released right at the beginning. Cause of death - asphyxiation.

So we don't know for sure if LS died from the plastic bag over her head. It could have been that she was choked to death, possibly using the pants.

the coroner stated death by asphyixiation (sp?)

Jane, yes that is what the coroner stated. But asphyxiation is lack of oxygen, it can be from smothering or choking or strangulation. I'm trying to find a reason for the damn pants being under her head.

she was found with only her work pants on. i think that she was planning on changing into those pants to go out when she heard commotion and ran out to see what was going on.

makes sense to me.

We have to put several things to rest and not keep bringing up things that are false.

Death was due to asphyxiation due to bags over head per coroner. If she was strangled, death would have been asphyxiation due to strangulation of something like that. Strangulation would have ligature marks, bruising around throat, or the telltale hyoid bone being broken. Coroner definitely said she was asphyxiationwith bag, which could be used interchangeably with the work smothered.

Lisa's uncle has stated bluntly that Lisa was still wearing her uniform. he did not say just her pants. Or that her top was off. Her uniform consisted of a TGIF polo (I think they are red and black here, or red or black striped. Pants are black I believe. Lisa's uncle made a point of saying that she was still wearing her uniform and that's why he thinks they were killed shortly after arriving home cuz she didn't have time to change out of it. He didn't say she was in the process of changing, he said she was wearing her uniform..not half her uniform. I think we can take that as fact and stop all this supposition that MAYTEE brought into the mix by saying she didn't have a top on. Her uncle (who would know) says she was clothed.

personally, I think the guys walked right in behind them when they got home...or were already in the house waiting.

Yes...I agree.....and its possible someone in this saga was placing calls to them trying too keep them from going home and instead coming over pick pick her and her friend up. Maybe that delay tactic was to be employed even further by getting JC to then "run her to the store".....and that all fizzled when "lo and behold" JC is answering the phone back at LS house because she wanted to get changed while he went back out to pickup the friends instead of going with.....

(02-18-2011, 01:40 AM)Jane Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 01:16 AM)curious Wrote:

(02-17-2011, 11:38 PM)jash Wrote: UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son is in the basement, tied up with a towel (ph). I just saw him through the window. The police were (EXPLETIVE DELETED) earlier and did absolutely nothing!

Quote:UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Both cell phones are on the ground, and we can see the people. Him and his girlfriend are tied up in the basement!

911 OPERATOR: Cell phones on their bodies?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With cell phones on their bodies!

911 OPERATOR: She`s unclothed with (INAUDIBLE) pants on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She only has pants on! And their hands are tied!

I think everyone can agree that the "unidentified female" is Maytee as she keeps saying my son.

More stuff that bothers me...

1. She says, "I just saw them" Yet it has been reported in PRINT that she waited in the car while her husband and cousin went to see if they could see anything. The cousin comes running back yelling call an ambulance, call the police...so Maytee did not see them when she said she did.

2. I can't see any way where you would say the word towels instead of duck tape.

3. The basement??? I don't even know where the hell she got this...You don't confuse a kitchen/family room combo with a basement.

4, Cell phones on their bodies? LE did not report this tho they reported cell phone parts strewn all over...I just think this is completel fabrication

5. Lisa has no top on. Lisa's uncle has confirmed that Lisa was still in her uniform..she was not found undressed.

All of Maytee's 911 calls in my opinion are half truths and complete fabrication and exaggeration about what was said and what occurred, and what she saw or didn't see. I swear, everything she says muddies the water further and makes it more difficult to weed out fact from fiction.

There's also conflicting reports and the lights being on...if what TW claims is accurate that only the light in the stairwell was on, how did the cousin see the bodies? Guess you would have to re-create the scenario to find out...dunno but i get more confused with every post

someone brought up a good point, last night, & I really think it's how it went down. I think JC's father kicked the door in, BEFORE that last 911 call was made, where Maytee is saying she can see her son lying inside the house, etc ... As soon as he kicked in the door, & saw what he saw, I imagine, THAT'S when Maytee called again (the last time)

we know that. that has never been in question. the last 911 call is when she reports that they have been found. i don't understand what u r saying????? of course they would find the bodies and then call 911. u r not making any sense at all???????????????????

I've been reading this for awhile also, and wonder if TW never even talked to JC, her word against someone who can't speak, maybe Tw used his phone to call hers while they were there at LS's parents home, just a thought, she could have been on both

(02-18-2011, 12:34 AM)truth be told Wrote:

(02-17-2011, 10:33 PM)curiouscat Wrote: Just wondering has anyone ever looked for rap sheets on Joe and Maggie Cromer, JC's uncle and aunt who spoke at the first press conference the night of the murder's with Lisa's uncle? I hope I I am not breaking rules, I am not calling them out as suspects, they just made themselves well known the first night and then disappeared. Is that Maytee's sister? Do you remember her, Aunt Maggie, seeming to almost laugh through the interview though media cut her off after seconds? Or her strange laugh-like, joker expression in the Toledo Blade? Maybe she was on xanax to remain calm....but.... They said he was so close to them that he was like a son...though now they have become silent and almost forgotten, conveniently invisible...this is not an accusation per say, so I hope i am not in trouble on here. I very much respect LC and the Dutchess, but with all the criminal records pulled regarding anyone we can find associated, what about them? I am not a great sleuth like many of you...so I am just putting it out there....can anyone do a search on them? Just a curious cat, who has felt bad vibes....

This couple is the only positive influence that Johnny had in his life. Johnny was like a son to them....you have no idea what they are going through. I can assure you that the picture of Aunt Mag was a bad editors choice to use (their tears are real and genuine). Maggie is the complete opposite of her "Evil" sister. For nearly 5 years Johnny lived with his aunt and uncles house while Mommy was no where no be found. Poor Johnny to be born into that enviroment. Things all changed once Mommy came back in the picture.

Thank you for that information, I didn't mean to criticize...but Maytee has left holes and they didn't read well at first glance, I don't know Johnny's past with his mother, but I can surmise it is NOT good just by the obvious craziness that even a grieving mother is acting. I am sorry to offend. Merely making a point of observation. Glad to know he had GOOD family to support him, just like LIsa's did I apologize again...I'm an outside the box thinker and it causes issues when my box is off.

(02-18-2011, 02:04 AM)jash Wrote:

Quote:kitty1 Wrote:
(Today 12:00 AM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:53 PM)Jane Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:50 PM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:46 PM)shitstorm Wrote:
No. Nothing has been confirmed beyond what was released right at the beginning. Cause of death - asphyxiation.

So we don't know for sure if LS died from the plastic bag over her head. It could have been that she was choked to death, possibly using the pants.

the coroner stated death by asphyixiation (sp?)

Jane, yes that is what the coroner stated. But asphyxiation is lack of oxygen, it can be from smothering or choking or strangulation. I'm trying to find a reason for the damn pants being under her head.

she was found with only her work pants on. i think that she was planning on changing into those pants to go out when she heard commotion and ran out to see what was going on.

makes sense to me.

We have to put several things to rest and not keep bringing up things that are false.

Death was due to asphyxiation due to bags over head per coroner. If she was strangled, death would have been asphyxiation due to strangulation of something like that. Strangulation would have ligature marks, bruising around throat, or the telltale hyoid bone being broken. Coroner definitely said she was asphyxiationwith bag, which could be used interchangeably with the work smothered.

Lisa's uncle has stated bluntly that Lisa was still wearing her uniform. he did not say just her pants. Or that her top was off. Her uniform consisted of a TGIF polo (I think they are red and black here, or red or black striped. Pants are black I believe. Lisa's uncle made a point of saying that she was still wearing her uniform and that's why he thinks they were killed shortly after arriving home cuz she didn't have time to change out of it. He didn't say she was in the process of changing, he said she was wearing her uniform..not half her uniform. I think we can take that as fact and stop all this supposition that MAYTEE brought into the mix by saying she didn't have a top on. Her uncle (who would know) says she was clothed.

personally, I think the guys walked right in behind them when they got home...or were already in the house waiting.

do u think that her uncle is gonna announce on national tv that she was half dressed. he says that she was still in her uniform. you can't assume that to mean her entire uniform. the point he was trying to make was that she wasnt home very long because she always changes out of her uniform right away. She didn't get that far.

(02-17-2011, 10:20 PM)shitstorm Wrote:

(02-17-2011, 09:56 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Is anyone besides me squeaked by the photos of M and J here?
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?tab=3#!...57&theater

Not really but look at this

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=52...57&theater

Does that tattoo say Maytee?

How observant! Good Post! Maytee means "loveable" in Basque language. Cuban mothers are very loving with their sons!

(02-18-2011, 02:08 AM)LedZeppelin Wrote: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ban-Justic...2314713870

...mmmm interesting...

Jesus Christ. Really?

Now and at 3AM EST on A and E
Beyond Scared Straight

Gangbangers go to Jail

(02-18-2011, 02:43 AM)kitty1 Wrote:

(02-17-2011, 05:15 PM)curious Wrote: In regards to the dad, the window, and basement...

First, in regards to the window, I wonder if LE confirmed that the bodies could be seen from the window based on his claims? Perhaps that was how the perps entered the house, unlocking it during a previous visit to the home...and it makes for a good cover if worried fingerprints lifted from the window might match yours.

Secondly, per Maytee's call to 911 stating something to the effect of seeing the bodies in the basement...does the home even have a basement and if so, does it have a window?

And lastly, where did LE find the puppy...in a cage, locked in a room, hiding? If it's a puppy, typically the first thing you do when you get home is let it out to go potty, were there dog prints in the snow and where do they let it out from the front, back, through the garage?

they found the puppy under the couch. poor thing was traumatized. he was biting and nipping at everyone that was trying to get him out. they had to call the dog warden to get him out. he is safe now and in good hands.

Thank you, i was worried about the little one so that makes me feel better

Has the issue of the "intraband pants" been clarified yet? I'm still confused as to what those are and what part they played (if any) in this.

(02-18-2011, 02:51 AM)kitty1 Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 01:40 AM)Jane Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 01:16 AM)curious Wrote:

(02-17-2011, 11:38 PM)jash Wrote: UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son is in the basement, tied up with a towel (ph). I just saw him through the window. The police were (EXPLETIVE DELETED) earlier and did absolutely nothing!

Quote:UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Both cell phones are on the ground, and we can see the people. Him and his girlfriend are tied up in the basement!

911 OPERATOR: Cell phones on their bodies?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With cell phones on their bodies!

911 OPERATOR: She`s unclothed with (INAUDIBLE) pants on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She only has pants on! And their hands are tied!

I think everyone can agree that the "unidentified female" is Maytee as she keeps saying my son.

More stuff that bothers me...

1. She says, "I just saw them" Yet it has been reported in PRINT that she waited in the car while her husband and cousin went to see if they could see anything. The cousin comes running back yelling call an ambulance, call the police...so Maytee did not see them when she said she did.

2. I can't see any way where you would say the word towels instead of duck tape.

3. The basement??? I don't even know where the hell she got this...You don't confuse a kitchen/family room combo with a basement.

4, Cell phones on their bodies? LE did not report this tho they reported cell phone parts strewn all over...I just think this is completel fabrication

5. Lisa has no top on. Lisa's uncle has confirmed that Lisa was still in her uniform..she was not found undressed.

All of Maytee's 911 calls in my opinion are half truths and complete fabrication and exaggeration about what was said and what occurred, and what she saw or didn't see. I swear, everything she says muddies the water further and makes it more difficult to weed out fact from fiction.

There's also conflicting reports and the lights being on...if what TW claims is accurate that only the light in the stairwell was on, how did the cousin see the bodies? Guess you would have to re-create the scenario to find out...dunno but i get more confused with every post

someone brought up a good point, last night, & I really think it's how it went down. I think JC's father kicked the door in, BEFORE that last 911 call was made, where Maytee is saying she can see her son lying inside the house, etc ... As soon as he kicked in the door, & saw what he saw, I imagine, THAT'S when Maytee called again (the last time)

we know that. that has never been in question. the last 911 call is when she reports that they have been found. i don't understand what u r saying????? of course they would find the bodies and then call 911. u r not making any sense at all???????????????????

Ok having a problem with unidentified caller...no cell number to trace, no pings, she obviously wasn't Maytee or by now they would have ascertained it's not Maytee...with the FBI involved, cmon now with that the elite squad of invesigators and they haven't identified the caller...either the caller is so connected to such a brilliant hit no federal investigation can place or maybe they already know and are waiting for the final evidence or I'm starting to get scared now...even the FBI can't get a finger on this case. Reallly? WOW...they already released the profile...those are fairly accurate...once again... and usually a here we come get ready move.....all the silence from LE I believe is cuz someone bigger, stronger, better and more capable of the arrest is already in the house. problem is...their case is so important this case seems unsolved.

(02-18-2011, 02:48 AM)curiouscat Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 01:25 AM)kitty1 Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 12:33 AM)allieayy Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 12:31 AM)DickTracy Wrote: Very nice pic of Johnny & Lisa....

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1...57&theater

that picture is probably my favorite that ive seen of the two of them.
oh lisa... :(

she looks just like her mom.

and her aunt...all very beautiful:( Usually a good thing.

yes. her aunt too. and her aunts older daughters.

(02-18-2011, 03:00 AM)kitty1 Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 02:04 AM)jash Wrote:

Quote:kitty1 Wrote:
(Today 12:00 AM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:53 PM)Jane Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:50 PM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:46 PM)shitstorm Wrote:
No. Nothing has been confirmed beyond what was released right at the beginning. Cause of death - asphyxiation.

So we don't know for sure if LS died from the plastic bag over her head. It could have been that she was choked to death, possibly using the pants.

the coroner stated death by asphyixiation (sp?)

Jane, yes that is what the coroner stated. But asphyxiation is lack of oxygen, it can be from smothering or choking or strangulation. I'm trying to find a reason for the damn pants being under her head.

she was found with only her work pants on. i think that she was planning on changing into those pants to go out when she heard commotion and ran out to see what was going on.

makes sense to me.

We have to put several things to rest and not keep bringing up things that are false.

Death was due to asphyxiation due to bags over head per coroner. If she was strangled, death would have been asphyxiation due to strangulation of something like that. Strangulation would have ligature marks, bruising around throat, or the telltale hyoid bone being broken. Coroner definitely said she was asphyxiationwith bag, which could be used interchangeably with the work smothered.

Lisa's uncle has stated bluntly that Lisa was still wearing her uniform. he did not say just her pants. Or that her top was off. Her uniform consisted of a TGIF polo (I think they are red and black here, or red or black striped. Pants are black I believe. Lisa's uncle made a point of saying that she was still wearing her uniform and that's why he thinks they were killed shortly after arriving home cuz she didn't have time to change out of it. He didn't say she was in the process of changing, he said she was wearing her uniform..not half her uniform. I think we can take that as fact and stop all this supposition that MAYTEE brought into the mix by saying she didn't have a top on. Her uncle (who would know) says she was clothed.

personally, I think the guys walked right in behind them when they got home...or were already in the house waiting.

do u think that her uncle is gonna announce on national tv that she was half dressed. he says that she was still in her uniform. you can't assume that to mean her entire uniform. the point he was trying to make was that she wasnt home very long because she always changes out of her uniform right away. She didn't get that far.

Thank you, all details will never be revealed...it's an ivestigation and her uncle is a good man who is speaking for her family who also has a strong understanding and background in LE...he will state facts as he is allowed by LE. Her uniform is significant point blank, whether they had stripped off her top is not for NOW...there is always a reason for holding back facts...let the investigation flow....She was just a beautiful girl. though asolutely not perfect (like all of us)....her family wants to assist not deter justice. His facts are what he is able to tell via LE. PERIOD. Sometimes those of us who love crime stories tend to forget the importance of "withheld information" and "secretivity".... cuz we just wanna solve it. Which is also admirable

19 days and still no word from LE...

At least say you're still working on it...

WTF

(02-18-2011, 03:06 AM)curiouscat Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 02:51 AM)kitty1 Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 01:40 AM)Jane Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 01:16 AM)curious Wrote:

(02-17-2011, 11:38 PM)jash Wrote: UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son is in the basement, tied up with a towel (ph). I just saw him through the window. The police were (EXPLETIVE DELETED) earlier and did absolutely nothing!


I think everyone can agree that the "unidentified female" is Maytee as she keeps saying my son.

More stuff that bothers me...

1. She says, "I just saw them" Yet it has been reported in PRINT that she waited in the car while her husband and cousin went to see if they could see anything. The cousin comes running back yelling call an ambulance, call the police...so Maytee did not see them when she said she did.

2. I can't see any way where you would say the word towels instead of duck tape.

3. The basement??? I don't even know where the hell she got this...You don't confuse a kitchen/family room combo with a basement.

4, Cell phones on their bodies? LE did not report this tho they reported cell phone parts strewn all over...I just think this is completel fabrication

5. Lisa has no top on. Lisa's uncle has confirmed that Lisa was still in her uniform..she was not found undressed.

All of Maytee's 911 calls in my opinion are half truths and complete fabrication and exaggeration about what was said and what occurred, and what she saw or didn't see. I swear, everything she says muddies the water further and makes it more difficult to weed out fact from fiction.

There's also conflicting reports and the lights being on...if what TW claims is accurate that only the light in the stairwell was on, how did the cousin see the bodies? Guess you would have to re-create the scenario to find out...dunno but i get more confused with every post

someone brought up a good point, last night, & I really think it's how it went down. I think JC's father kicked the door in, BEFORE that last 911 call was made, where Maytee is saying she can see her son lying inside the house, etc ... As soon as he kicked in the door, & saw what he saw, I imagine, THAT'S when Maytee called again (the last time)

we know that. that has never been in question. the last 911 call is when she reports that they have been found. i don't understand what u r saying????? of course they would find the bodies and then call 911. u r not making any sense at all???????????????????

Ok having a problem with unidentified caller...no cell number to trace, no pings, she obviously wasn't Maytee or by now they would have ascertained it's not Maytee...with the FBI involved, cmon now with that the elite squad of invesigators and they haven't identified the caller...either the caller is so connected to such a brilliant hit no federal investigation can place or maybe they already know and are waiting for the final evidence or I'm starting to get scared now...even the FBI can't get a finger on this case. Reallly? WOW...they already released the profile...those are fairly accurate...once again... and usually a here we come get ready move.....all the silence from LE I believe is cuz someone bigger, stronger, better and more capable of the arrest is already in the house. problem is...their case is so important this case seems unsolved.

what unidentified caller r u talking about??????? maybe i'm just tired!

(02-18-2011, 02:18 AM)jash Wrote:

Quote:Doesn't this sound Mickey Mouse to you? I find it hard to believe they couldn't narrow down the time of death within a two hour or so window. It's not like the bodies were found a week after the murders

This is ridiculous. James Patrick has been the coroner for as long as I can remember,definitely at least 25 years. The position is political. I pray that the Straubs have money because Stooksbury is completely inept in my opinion and could majorly fuck this all up and they would do well to hire their own independent investigators...

We have Straub family friends and relatives on this thread. Lets hope they pass this on to the family, right away.