11-23-2018, 08:54 PM
(11-23-2018, 07:42 PM)Duchess Wrote: trump turned a blind eye to the murder & dismemberment of a United States resident. That's the bottom line.
Bottom lines are not dishonest.
The Bottom line is that he in NO way "turned a blind eye" and you and everyone else knows this. The bottom line is that the outcome was NOT what you wanted and his actions were not as you would have liked.
Maybe you are thinking "Well fuck me! I am a US citizen and what if I go holidaying and some world leader decides that I am to be tortured and chopped up, I would fucking hope something would be done and that the world leaders would not get away with it". I couldn't call that unreasonable.
The truth is he did not ignore it but you did not like his ultimate response. You don't have to but it is dishonest to say he turned a blind eye to it. He took in the facts and was appalled and waited until the facts were in and once they were all in took stock of his options.
The options were not great AND had to be factored against:
Quote:At present two of the biggest players in the region Saudi Arabia and Iran are warring each other.
The House of Saudi has just gone through a coup and shake up
Trump has just arranged a huge in oil prices from $87US a barrel to $54US
Trump has arranged huge arms deals worth bazillion to the US.
The Prince is a young and new world leader. A spoiled and entitled prat and probably more than a little immoral. He could be asked to explain himself a billion times and will NEVER admit to being personally involved in the assassination. He did not even wish to have to concede there was an assassination. World pressure has tipped his hand.
Further destabilization or making enemies of the few allies makes no sense.
It is possible to appreciate the horror and gravity of the situation without calling the Prince a liar and rejecting their mutually beneficial alliance and calling him a liar, continually demanding he address what he has addressed, sanctioning, backing out of deals or withdrawing support will do EXACTLY that.
Furthermore, after sending crates of cash to Iran despite their actions against America, such efforts to poke the Prince in the eye will be seen as valuing Iran over Saudi Arabia.
You get to choose your poison but do not pretend none of these thing matter or that America's role is the morality police or the World police.
Again It would be complete dishonesty to say he turned a blind eye. Completely reasonable to say you think he ultimate actions were bad or weak or cowardly or pathetic or stupid or evil or unpatriotic or unpresidential or whatever. That is fine BUT then given the above, what COULD he have done better.
You get to pick your poison but if this is more than a dismissive "I hate everything Trump because I hate everything Trump" kind of position, you get to say "He was wrong because he would have been better doing X" AND then given all I quoted above counter how a different handling would have been better given the above.
In saying this, to me it is like the whole Putin/Trump meetings.
"Did he ask about Russia election tampering?"
"Yes and Putin denied it"
"Well did he only ask it once or did he press him on it?"
"No he raised it twice and Putin denied it. So we moved on"
"Well did he say cut it out?"
"No. Putin denied it and there was nothing more to be gained in bringing it up a third time and we were not there solely to talk about whether he did or did not interfere in the election"
"Did Trump believe him?"
"Doesn't matter either way, there was nothing to be gained"
It is stupid. If the media and the Anti-Trump folk had their way, US would isolate themselves from, refuse to work with and actively incite and fight against Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Russia, China, North Korea and seek to intimidate spoil and bully these countries and when he did and everything turned to shit after "standing up to them", they would blame him for destroying the world and the US.
To be part of an international community AND look after your country you need to sometimes work with leaders you do not like and policies with are distasteful and have to carefully pick your hills to die on, acknowledging the consequences of choosing these last stands.
Its infantile.