ANOTHER SCHOOL/PUBLIC SHOOTING

[Midwest Spy]

She was a selfish little prick who should've just taken her life instead of the person she supposedly loved.

This is the oldest story in the book when it comes to domestic abuse.

Person A no longer wants to be with Person B, so Person B kills Person A.

As for the potential felony charge, I'm of the opinion that the DA should prosecute even though the families say that he/she shouldn't.

[Blindgreed1]

I hope the owners of the weapon used have a great attorney and excessive insurance.

Or a substantial portfolio and assets.

The little fucker who provided the weapon needs to be charged and prosecuted.

The families of the two girls reportedly don't want the boy prosecuted, but I agree with you that he should face some legal consequences.

Update -- Details of Shooter's Murder/Suicide Note:
The 15-year-old girl who fatally shot herself and a classmate two weeks ago at Independence High School in Glendale left behind notes of apology, explanation and even guidance for the emergency personnel she foresaw arriving at the chaotic scene she would soon create.

Glendale police released copies of the letters Friday afternoon while also announcing that they would be submitting a charge against another teen who provided the girl the gun.

Family members have confirmed that the pair who died were May Kieu and Dorothy Dutiel, both 15. Police identified Dutiel as the shooter. They were both sophomores and had been in a romantic relationship.

The handwritten letters, which were edited by police to remove identities and other privileged information, provide a window into a teenage psyche, portraying a girl who said she was “of sane mind” struggling with excruciating heartbreak.

In a letter titled “+ biased explanations,” Dutiel wrote about the unraveling relationship between her and her girlfriend — presumably Kieu.

“Last Saturday, I was informed she didn’t love me romantically anymore,” the letter said. “I was not okay. But we did not separate, because she told me there was a chance.”

“This week,” she continued, “has been the worst in my life.”

The author took pains to absolve everyone in her life of responsibility for her actions — including Kieu. She apologized to her parents for “what I have done,” as well as for comparatively inconsequential details.

“I’m sorry that you just bought me new clothes,” she says in a letter addressed to “Momma.”

A separate letter addressed to “First responders” was matter-of-fact. It said the gun was a Beretta, provided by a classmate. The victim was her girlfriend (name redacted), and the “holder” of this note was “me” (name redacted).

The day of the shooting, a firefighter was the first to notice a piece of paper hanging out of her right front pocket.

The note ended with phone numbers for three “emergency contacts” — her mother, father and grandmother.

In a paragraph near the top of the letter, Dutiel attempted to relieve the classmate who provided the gun of any blame.

“I would like to clarify that him and his family are in no way affiliated with my actions,” she writes. “(Redacted) was under the absolute impression I needed it for self defense. I lied to receive this gun.”

On Friday, Glendale police announced that investigators planned to submit a charge of sale or gift of firearm to a minor, a low-level felony, against the student. The law states that a person who sells or gives a firearm to a minor, without consent of the minor's parent or guardian, is guilty of a Class 6 felony.

The police statement stressed that both of the girls’ families do not wish to prosecute the 15-year-old boy.

It will be up to the Maricopa County Attorney’s Office whether to file charges.


Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loca.../81006722/

Wow... I'm shocked that a minor's suicide note was released to the media. That never happens.

[Blindgreed1]

She was a selfish little prick who should've just taken her life instead of the person she supposedly loved.

This is the oldest story in the book when it comes to domestic abuse.

Person A no longer wants to be with Person B, so Person B kills Person A.

As for the potential felony charge, I'm of the opinion that the DA should prosecute even though the families say that he/she shouldn't.

That's ridiculous. Enough lives have been affected by this.

[Midwest Spy]

She was a selfish little prick who should've just taken her life instead of the person she supposedly loved.

This is the oldest story in the book when it comes to domestic abuse.

Person A no longer wants to be with Person B, so Person B kills Person A.

As for the potential felony charge, I'm of the opinion that the DA should prosecute even though the families say that he/she shouldn't.

That's ridiculous. Enough lives have been affected by this.

Ridiculous?

Glad you're not the district attorney.

[Blindgreed1]

She was a selfish little prick who should've just taken her life instead of the person she supposedly loved.

This is the oldest story in the book when it comes to domestic abuse.

Person A no longer wants to be with Person B, so Person B kills Person A.

As for the potential felony charge, I'm of the opinion that the DA should prosecute even though the families say that he/she shouldn't.

That's ridiculous. Enough lives have been affected by this.

Ridiculous?

Glad you're not the district attorney.

Absolutely ridiculous. Why try to ruin this kids life more than this whole thing already has? The kid thought she needed it for protection. He obviously thought his friends life was in danger. In hindsight it was a bad decision, but who didn't make bad decisions at 15? I'm certain if it was your kid, you'd feel very differently about prosecution.

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't think it's ridiculous that some people want to see the existing laws enforced; you've banged that drum yourself many a time, Gunnar.

Anyway, the 15-year-old boy didn't make a typical bad teen decision like smoking a cigarette in the school bathroom, or cutting class, or drinking a few beers in the garage with his buddy.

The 15-year-old boy in this case stole his parents' gun and gave it to another 15-year-old. No matter what story she told him to convince him that she needed it for self-defense, there was every possibility that somebody was going to get shot and/or killed with the gun he gave the girl; that's something a 15-year-old boy could reasonably foresee. A 15-year-old boy would (or should) know that there were other and better options to help his female friend aside from handing her a stolen gun. His bad choice (which happened to be a crime) contributed to the death of two teen-aged girls and could have put his parents in trouble with police as well.

Having said that, if the DA's office declines to prosecute him on a felony charge and invokes a lesser punishment, I'll respect their judgement.

[Midwest Spy]

Remember BG, a murder was committed here, not just a suicide.

[Cutz]

IMO, if the kid is 15 and the families don't want him prosecuted, throw him in juvie for a bit and then put him on parole. It's terrible, but you don't need to make an example of him. Consequences can be light compared to the guilt.

[HairOfTheDog]

Follow-up to Post 911



Sarah Jo Hopkins ^ appeared in court today to face charges of transferring a gun to a known felon (Kansas spree killer Cedric Ford who killed three and wounded 14 others).

Authorities say she owns the .40-caliber semi-automatic Glock Model 22 and AK-47-style semi-automatic Zastava Serbia rifle found with Ford’s body after he was killed by law enforcement.

Hopkins was released on $10,000 bond and was not required to put any money down, but will be fined if she fails to follow the rules of her release.

Hopkins had sought and received help from the police department in retrieving her guns from Cedric Ford's home when she left him and moved out. She contends that she later gave them to him when he threatened her.

Hopkins' family and pastor attended today's hearing. Her pastor described her as a loving mother and a very kind person who had been keeping her distance from Ford and had moved on after an abusive relationship.

Ref: http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/a...56232.html

[Blindgreed1]

IMO, if the kid is 15 and the families don't want him prosecuted, throw him in juvie for a bit and then put him on parole. It's terrible, but you don't need to make an example of him. Consequences can be light compared to the guilt.

"remember Cutz, a murder was committed here. Not just a suicide."

[Blindgreed1]

Remember BG, a murder was committed here, not just a suicide.

Honestly, when I read your posts MS, I picture Charlie from "It's Always Sunny" talking. It helps your medicine go down.

[Blindgreed1]

http://www.wlwt.com/news/report-of-2-peo...l/38252402

[Midwest Spy]

Remember BG, a murder was committed here, not just a suicide.

Honestly, when I read your posts MS, I picture Charlie from "It's Always Sunny" talking. It helps your medicine go down.

I won't beat this to death, because you clearly have no problem with 'shit happens' in this case.

However, if it was your daughter that was murdered by her ex with a gun given to her illegally, you'd have no problem with no charges being filed?

I'd have a problem with it.

[HairOfTheDog]

Without prosecution -- as you propose Gunnar -- the teen would get off scot free.

A plea deal resulting in a stint in juvie and probation, reduction to a misdemeanor charge, community service and a fine....all would be the result of a prosecution.

What you're proposing now conflicts with all your previous drum banging, "don't pass new laws about locking guns up, enforcing the existing laws and responsible gun ownership is all that's needed!"

Well, the kid stole a gun from his irresponsible parents and it was used to kill two people. Now, you say, "hey, screw the existing laws, it's just a teen thing and the guilt is punishment enough." Pffft.

[Blindgreed1]

Remember BG, a murder was committed here, not just a suicide.

Honestly, when I read your posts MS, I picture Charlie from "It's Always Sunny" talking. It helps your medicine go down.

I won't beat this to death, because you clearly have no problem with 'shit happens' in this case.

However, if it was your daughter that was murdered by her ex with a gun given to her illegally, you'd have no problem with no charges being filed?

I'd have a problem with it.

No, and neither do the parents of the murdered girl. Is there a part of that you missed Charlie?

[Blindgreed1]

Without prosecution -- as you propose Gunnar -- the teen would get off scot free.

A plea deal resulting in a stint in juvie and probation, reduction to a misdemeanor charge, community service and a fine....all would be the result of a prosecution.

What you're proposing now conflicts with your previous drum banging, "don't pass new laws about locking guns up, enforcing the existing laws and responsible gun ownership is all that's needed!"

Well, the kid stole a gun from his irresponsible parents and it was used to kill two people. Now, you say, "hey, screw the existing laws, it's just a teen thing and the guilt is punishment enough." Pffft.

So go after his parents for not locking up the guns dumb ass. Leave the kid out of it. Do you really think there is a risk of him ever providing a gun to another friend? Or has this scarred him enough already?

[sally]

Assuming the kid has never been in trouble before the DA can refer him to a teen diversion program which still holds them accountable for their actions, but they are not sent to a juvenile detention center. It includes things like community service hours and crime and consequences classes. I don't think any of that would ruin his life and if anything it would be beneficial to him.

[HairOfTheDog]

It's not Tiki and MS who are making ridiculous and hypocritical arguments here, Gunnar. It's you.

There is no law that says the parents needed to have the guns locked up in their home in Arizona, remember? It didn't matter that the boy was told not to handle it and knew better than to steal it and 'loan' it to another kid. He did it anyway.

Your argument that the parents should be prosecuted supports the need for a new law. The boy's parents could not be justly prosecuted in this case because they didn't willingly and illegally transfer the gun to their minor son; their minor son willingly, stupidly, and illegally transferred it to another minor.

Two people broke existing laws here; the 15-year-old male and the dead 15-year-old pre-meditated female murderer.

[Blindgreed1]

It's not Tiki and MS who are making ridiculous and hypocritical arguments here, Gunnar. It's you.

There is no law that says the parents needed to have the guns locked up in their home in Arizona, remember? It didn't matter that the boy was told not to handle it and knew better than to steal it and 'loan' it to another kid. He did it anyway.

Your argument that the parents should be prosecuted supports the need for a new law. They could not be justly prosecuted in this case because they didn't willingly and illegally transfer the gun to their minor son; their minor son willingly, stupidly, and illegally transferred it to another minor.

Two people broke existing laws here; the 15-year-old male and the 15-year-old female murderer.

No it doesn't. Parents can currently be held responsible in Az for this. Now get off your soap box.

[HairOfTheDog]

The only one on a "soap box", albeit a wobbly one, is you Gunnar.

"The guilt is punishment enough for stealing a gun and giving it someone who wasn't eligible to use it". That is, in fact, contrary to all your previous "enforce the existing laws!" soap box proclamations.

The families of the two girls could seek retribution from the boy's parents in civil court, no doubt. But, I'm not aware of how the boy's parents could be held criminally responsible under the existing law.

So, enlighten me. How could the parents be successfully prosecuted for their teen stealing their gun and loaning it to a friend who used it in a murder in Arizona if they were completely in the dark and not legally negligent in their parental responsibilities?