Ferguson & St. Louis, MO -- Deaths and Protests

[username]

I'd love to see those players punished.

Why? What exactly did they do that they deserve to be punished for?

They raised their hands?

They inflamed the public? The horror!

A lot of prominent athletes have stood for a cause. It was a small gesture of support by a few players; I think penalizing them for it would fly in the face of what we supposedly stand for as a country. Free speech. The right to peacefully protest.

I don't disagree with the grand jury's decision (from what I know of the case) but I think this is a cause that has grown beyond Ferguson and worthy of discussion. Rich or poor, it would suck to be a young, big, black guy I think. Granted, they have a lot of their own brethren to blame for the stereotypes but they are stereotyped.

What we need is more black guys willing to give the same types of speech that Bill Cosby gave. Pull up your pants, speak English AND we need to have the conversation about the profiling that does exist.

I heard a very successful black attorney on the radio the other day talking about the instructions he has to give his sons with regards to being out at night, what to do (exactly) if an officer approaches them... I'd be warning the hell out of my kids too if I were black. It sucks that they need special instructions, it sucks that they're much more likely to get pulled over, it sucks that they're looked at more closely in retail shops and things. Whatta mess.

[Midwest Spy]

It also sucks for the law-abiding black men in this country that there's such a disproportionate percentage of black men committing crimes.

I feel for guys like my 2 co-workers that have to constantly be profiled because of the actions of others.

However, it all comes back to one thing: if you're obeying the law you really have very little to fear from the big bad Po Po.

[HairOfTheDog]

Your co-workers don't have to be constantly profiled, MS. Profiling people based on the color of their skin alone is not mandatory -- I'm serious.

Anyway, in terms of high-profile black men who support the Grand Jury's decision, I've heard Charles Barkley speak in favor of Darren Wilson and slam the protestors. He speaks and writes about "unintelligent blacks" and his opinion that it's blacks holding back other blacks frequently.

Love him or hate him, Charles doesn't do race PC. He supported the Zimmerman verdict and the Ferguson grand jury decision. He also disagreed with the NFL coming down on Adrian Peterson and the NBA coming down on Donald Sterling.

Also, civil rights activist (and radio show host) Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson publicly broadcasted his agreement with the Ferguson Grand Jury.

And, singer Pharrell Williams is quite vocal about his support of Bill Cosby's message and spreading his updated version of it to black youth (he didn't support the Grand Jury decision, but he did tell blacks to be honest about Michael Brown being bullyish).

I don't know if there are more or not -- haven't specifically searched -- those are just the few that I've seen.

[Midwest Spy]

I listened to the audio with Chuck. BTW, check him out with Shaq and Kenny on TNT NBA broadcasts. Those guys are great together.

That's what I'm talking about, and what he says has got to have a ton of truth to it.

It's as if a black person HAS to support Michael Brown regardless of the evidence and eyewitness testimony just because he's black.

I understand that black people have gotten the shaft for 200+ years around here, but I'm examining this particular incident, in 2014, not from 75 years ago.

[HairOfTheDog]

I see how you threw the "shaft" reference in there while speaking for "all of your black friends", MS. Not bad.



I liked Richard Roundtree's Shaft much better than Samuel L. Jackson's Shaft, personally.

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't disagree with the grand jury's decision (from what I know of the case) but I think this is a cause that has grown beyond Ferguson and worthy of discussion. Rich or poor, it would suck to be a young, big, black guy I think. Granted, they have a lot of their own brethren to blame for the stereotypes but they are stereotyped.

I'd be warning the hell out of my kids too if I were black. It sucks that they need special instructions, it sucks that they're much more likely to get pulled over, it sucks that they're looked at more closely in retail shops and things. Whatta mess.

Yep. But, it's difficult to have that worthy discussion sometimes because so many white people don't believe that racial discrimination exists, or they believe that the reason it exists is solely the responsibility of blacks themselves and their behavior. I don't agree with that at all; that's not what I see.

The most troubling part for me is how black boys or teens are not viewed as children by police and some elements of the white population. They are viewed as threats and looked upon as adults by default, whereas that would not be the case nearly as often in regards to white kids, in my opinion.

Anyway, this is a very good piece that deals with the exact realities you mentioned in your post, if you're interested: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i...story.html

[Midwest Spy]

HotD, did you ever see a picture of Greg Oden when he was 18?

He looked like he was 35.

Why can't you try and acknowledge this specific case?

Michael Brown bullying/threatening storekeeper, makes his way out and decides he can just saunter down the middle of a street. Tells a police officer "fuck you" and then attacks officer while still in his vehicle.

Why do you want Michael Brown to be the poster child for the 'wronged' black community? I'm sure there are true victims of police brutality out there. Michael Brown is not one of them.

I'm not trying to get into anything heated, just want to know how so many can seemed hoodwinked by this.

[HairOfTheDog]

I've seen Oden, MS.

My point was that while some children and teens look older than others, that, of course, doesn't mean that they are any more mature or adult in thinking and experience than other kids of the same age.

Black male children and teens, especially those who are larger than their peers, are often viewed as menacing simply due to their appearances and, IMO, are often perceived in a negative way. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but that's the way it is.

My comments/observations on this topic were in response to user's general comment about the perception of black children vs. white children and the implications for black parents. My comments had nothing to do with Michael Brown. Michael Brown is not only NOT a poster child for wronged black youth in my eyes, he's not even an example of the general condition/observation I was describing.

Michael Brown carried himself more aggressively than most teens, IMO, based on what I saw in the liquor store video. I don't have any reason to believe that he was judged wrongly to be more menacing than other teens based on his color and largeness alone. Instead, I suspect that he used his largeness to intentionally appear and behave menacingly (at least sometimes).

I'm sorry Michael Brown is dead, for his parents and his community. But, I personally believe it's more likely than not that he did initiate the physical altercation with Darren Wilson. However, I am not convinced completely that Wilson shot Michael Brown because Michael Brown was charging towards him after being shot at (that's difficult for me to accept as a certainty) and that Wilson was in fear for his life. I believe it's possible that Michael Brown had instead turned around to surrender, stumbled forward, and Wilson shot in panic or anger.

Wilson's description of Brown in his grand jury testimony gives me cause to wonder about Wilson's clarity and his confidence when confronted. But, having doubts about Darren Wilson's account is not the same as making Michael Brown a poster child for wronged black youth, MS. I have little doubt that Brown acted wrongly. I have some doubt that Wilson believed he had to shoot for fear of his life. Therefore, I would have understood and supported a grand jury indictment even though I don't object to the grand jury's decision not to indict. I think Wilson probably would have been acquitted by a trial jury anyway for the same reasons the grand jury came back with no true bill.

[username]

HotD, did you ever see a picture of Greg Oden when he was 18?

He looked like he was 35.

Why can't you try and acknowledge this specific case?

Michael Brown bullying/threatening storekeeper, makes his way out and decides he can just saunter down the middle of a street. Tells a police officer "fuck you" and then attacks officer while still in his vehicle.

Why do you want Michael Brown to be the poster child for the 'wronged' black community? I'm sure there are true victims of police brutality out there. Michael Brown is not one of them.

I'm not trying to get into anything heated, just want to know how so many can seemed hoodwinked by this.

If you had a son that was 18, 6'4", 280lbs. and white, would you feel it necessary to give your son specific instructions about how to deal with a police encounter? Or suggest he stay off the streets altogether? That's what these people deal with day in/day out.

Michael Brown may not have been innocent (by any stretch of the imagination) but without a doubt, black youth are far more likely to face a confrontation with police than their counterpart white peers.

[Duchess]

His kids are Stepford kids. He's never going to be able to relate.

[Midwest Spy]

HotD, did you ever see a picture of Greg Oden when he was 18?

He looked like he was 35.

Why can't you try and acknowledge this specific case?

Michael Brown bullying/threatening storekeeper, makes his way out and decides he can just saunter down the middle of a street. Tells a police officer "fuck you" and then attacks officer while still in his vehicle.

Why do you want Michael Brown to be the poster child for the 'wronged' black community? I'm sure there are true victims of police brutality out there. Michael Brown is not one of them.

I'm not trying to get into anything heated, just want to know how so many can seemed hoodwinked by this.

If you had a son that was 18, 6'4", 280lbs. and white, would you feel it necessary to give your son specific instructions about how to deal with a police encounter? Or suggest he stay off the streets altogether? That's what these people deal with day in/day out.

Michael Brown may not have been innocent (by any stretch of the imagination) but without a doubt, black youth are far more likely to face a confrontation with police than their counterpart white peers.

So the real point of all the protesters burning and looting is not "Michael Brown died while surrendering." but is really "how do we teach our kids to act when confronted by police? cuz this one MB, acted like a fool."

Now, that makes sense.

If sensible people (yourself and HotD) acknowledge that MB was the aggressor, the black community needs to get together (hopefully with the police, mayor, etc.) and go through: Don't Act A Fool On The Streets 101.

Could be very helpful.

[Midwest Spy]

He's never going to be able to relate.

Relate to morons or moronic behavior?

God, I hope not.

[Duchess]

Relate to morons or moronic behavior?

Nah. You pretty much have that down pat.

[Duchess]

I just read Darren Wilson's attorney say that his first meeting with DW was an hour after the shooting. I find that very odd. I've never heard of a police officer immediately contacting an attorney within an hour of killing someone while on the job.

[username]

So the real point of all the protesters burning and looting is not "Michael Brown died while surrendering." but is really "how do we teach our kids to act when confronted by police? cuz this one MB, acted like a fool."

Now, that makes sense.

If sensible people (yourself and HotD) acknowledge that MB was the aggressor, the black community needs to get together (hopefully with the police, mayor, etc.) and go through: Don't Act A Fool On The Streets 101.

Could be very helpful.

I don't condone burning and looting--that's obviously thuggery. As I said in my post, I think that black youth have a lot of their brethren to blame for the stereotypes and I do think that black speakers that point that out, as opposed to just crying "victim", carry the correct message.

That's one huge point that needs to be addressed and discussed. On the other side, our officers and society as a whole needs to acknowledge the stereotypes and make efforts to treat people equally. And develop relationships between police and responsible minorities in various communities.

I like the idea of the police body cams. The police are going to be held accountable if they act with excessive force or routinely roust a disproportionate number of people of color.

[Maggot]

It will also protect them from being victimized by the perps that act aggressively. Having one when Brown assaulted the cop and tried to take his gun would have been invaluable.

[FAHQTOO]

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/12/02/mi...d%3D574195

Good. Stupid Nigger. And the rest of the family too.

He has multiple prison sentences. Mommy sure knows how to pick a perfect role model.

[username]

It will also protect them from being victimized by the perps that act aggressively. Having one when Brown assaulted the cop and tried to take his gun would have been invaluable.

That too. It absolutely works both ways.

[HairOfTheDog]

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/12/02/mi...d%3D574195

Good. Stupid Nigger. And the rest of the family too.

He has multiple prison sentences. Mommy sure knows how to pick a perfect role model.

All eyes and a ton of support on the family (and probably donations, too).........and stepdad goes and pulls that bullshit. What a stupid asshole.

I wonder how Michael Brown Sr. feels about it. He was in front of the cameras asking citizens to be calm and get behind the police body-cam push, meanwhile the ex's POS husband was running around inciting violence and vandalism.

[Cutz]

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/12/02/mi...d%3D574195

Good. Stupid Nigger. And the rest of the family too.

He has multiple prison sentences. Mommy sure knows how to pick a perfect role model.

It's not just Mommy. The black community in general is consistently lacking nuclear family and male role models. Black sons think that marriage is for white people.



Maybe I'm one of those 'crazy' people that thinks marriage and a stable family environment is still the best way to raise a few kids, but I guess when you're having children at 15 because it's acceptable and the government will give you money while your mom takes care of the kid... well the world is just such a bright and promising place with no responsibility.