AMERICAN SNIPER

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't think people and organizations are bad if they don't present alternative view points whenever they exercise their freedom of speech and expression.

Ima just keep that little gem for posterity..

Anytime you need a little nugget of common sense, pull it out.

Challenging one-sided positions is one thing. Viewing every expression of a position that doesn't include a counter-position as "bad" is silly and a recipe for a life of frustration.

[crash]

Viewing every expression of a position that doesn't include a counter-position as "bad" is silly and a recipe for a life of frustration.

I agree. Luckily we're not talking about everything here..

[HairOfTheDog]

Viewing every expression of a position that doesn't include a counter-position as "bad" is silly and a recipe for a life of frustration.

I agree. Luckily we're not talking about everything here..

You introduced everything into the conversation.

Crash: but I think if anything is one sided and propagandistic, then that is a bad thing.

Doesn't matter. Even if we change your "anything" to books or movies based on personal experiences (with war or otherwise), my feelings are the same.

Differences of opinion is all.

[Duchess]

It's been awhile since Mock has seen a good debate.

[crash]

Crash: but I think if anything is one sided and propagandistic, then that is a bad thing.

Ahh yes, I did. Along with the mutually inclusive 'and'

[HairOfTheDog]

Crash: but I think if anything is one sided and propagandistic, then that is a bad thing.

Ahh yes, I did. Along with the mutually inclusive 'and'

And?

You think anything that could be classified as propaganda and doesn't present counter-points is bad. I get it.

I don't view such as always "bad" and don't expect dual point/counter-point presentations from people when they're sharing their personal views and visions -- whether those views and visions get shared at a dinner party, during a network interview, in a book, via a Hollywood movie, whatever...

People are biased, it's reality. Some of them don't even see or understand the counter-point to their views, don't care, or don't believe what many consider fact. Luckily, people with opposing views are free to bring facts, counter-points, and critiques to the table if they so choose. Freedom of speech works well like that.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Incorrect. To Create something is to imply that it is not there already and only an idiot would think that the mindset "Go Out and Kill Some Ragheads" is not already out there. That mindset has been in place continuously since ⁹⁄₁₁ to one degree or another.
This particular movie and just about any other dealing with events in the middle east will and do do the same, with the possible exception of anything that Michael Moor puts his name to.

To answer your question about how the other side would feel or think or whatever, I am with HOTD on that, it probably varies but probably revolves around Mustafa being a Martr of one stripe or another, no surprises there.

So it is just a movie about 1 mans experiences to one degree or another to include factual events and bullshit, no surprise there either. I also do not recall seeing anything say that the movie or the book were 100% factual in all aspects, so WTF is the point to all that?

Speech will always be loaded to the mindset of the speaker. If no one ever spoke bullshit there would be a lot less conflict in the world I think, but people being people and all that..

SO, Yes, I think Chris was a Hero and its a fucking shame that some brain damaged asshole killed him, he was doing a lot more good in the world that whatever imagined harm that his story does. We should all hope to be that much help.

[crash]

I don't view such as always "bad" and don't expect dual point/counter-point presentations from people when they're sharing their personal views and visions -- whether those views and visions get shared at a dinner party, during a network interview, in a book, via a Hollywood movie, whatever...

Would you consider it bad if they were selling you their one sided presentation, view, vision or opinion based on non-truths? We can argue semantics over "always" and "bad" and "everything" all day long, it doesn't change the fact that this movie was sold to the public as a factual account of an American Hero. It is evoking hatred and adding fuel to an already burning fire, regardless of who lit it. How is that good?

Then saying, why do you have your knickers in a twist, it's just a movie is akin to somebody ordering a dishwasher online only to be delivered a washcloth and being told Hey, you didn't read the fineprint. You can wash dishes with it, can't you?

[Duchess]

is akin to somebody ordering a dishwasher online only to be delivered a washcloth

I'd be so pissed. There would be no untwisting of those tightly twisted knickers.

[HairOfTheDog]

Would you consider it bad if they were selling you their one sided presentation, view, vision or opinion based on non-truths? We can argue semantics over "always" and "bad" and "everything" all day long, it doesn't change the fact that this movie was sold to the public as a factual account of an American Hero. It is evoking hatred and adding fuel to an already burning fire, regardless of who lit it. How is that good?

Then saying, why do you have your knickers in a twist, it's just a movie is akin to somebody ordering a dishwasher online only to be delivered a washcloth and being told Hey, you didn't read the fineprint. You can wash dishes with it, can't you?

I haven't been arguing semantics, just addressing what you've stated and sharing my opinion.

Whether the movie evokes hatred or just gives those who already feel it as a result of 9 / 11, terrorist acts, generational bigotry... a reason to spew, I can't say. Regardless, do I think it should have been censored or not produced? No. Likewise, I don't think The Passion of the Christ should have been censored or halted because it's anti-Semitic to some and gave some Jew-haters a reason to spew. Nor, do I think Schindler's List should have been censored or halted because it made Germans look naive at best. I also don't think Team America should have been censored or halted because it mocks the shit outta Americans and how some here view the Middle East. The list goes on.

I would not have gone to see any of those movies expecting a perfectly unbiased, historically accurate, 2-sided account of the subject matter. And, I would not go to see American Sniper expecting anything other than a movie about one man's experience as a sniper for American forces in Iraq. It hasn't been sold to me as anything different. It sounds like you bought a ticket expecting it to be a documentary, or expecting it to include an analysis or condemnation of the rationale behind the invasion/war. That seems counter-intuitive to me.

Anyway, I don't think there was any false advertising or fraud involved in the promotion or selling of tickets for this movie and I don't think the producers and the director were wrong or bad for making the film. It's just my opinion.

[crash]

I didn't say this or any other movie should be censored either. All I gave was my opinion on it's one sidedness and the effects of that.

[Duchess]

I just want to watch him kill the evil doers.

[Duchess]

The murder trial has started for the man who shot Chris Kyle & a buddy. I'd like to know how they could have been so stupid to put a gun in the hands of that fruitcake. Before they even got to the gun range Chris told his buddy that the shooter was straight up nuts, he was concerned enough that he was texting to someone who was sitting right beside him! He also told his pal to watch his back as the shooter was sitting directly behind him in the vehicle.

He used his wits and skills to stay alive in a war zone yet goes shooting with someone he thinks is nuts. Go figure.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Yea that seemed to be a pretty bad tactical error. I would have thought he would have done Some kind of talking to this weirdo before putting a weapon in his hands. The movie didn't say and I didn't read the book. He may have, or he may have just become complacent around damaged guys and just never considered the guy to be a threat

[Duchess]

He may have, or he may have just become complacent around damaged guys and just never considered the guy to be a threat

According to the testimony in court, Chris knew on the way to the gun range that he was dealing with a nut, he texted his friend who was sitting right next to him and told him that. It's another senseless death. He didn't even want to work with the nut but the nut's mother pleaded with him to help her son and it cost him his life. I don't like blaming dead people for a role in their own death but jeez, he knew the guy was fucked up in the head.

[Maggot]

Well I guess that ruins the ending for me.

[Duchess]

I thought everyone knew.

[Clang McFly]

I'd go see it at crossroads theater. It's a new theater chain here. They have a restaurant and full bar in the theater. The food and drinks are very reasonably priced and you watch the movie from the comfort of a leather recliner while being served your dinner (the food is really good too). Full price for two people with dinner, drinks and a new release movie = 50 bucks. I'll never go to another theater ever again. That's the way to see a movie. Also, free refills on non-alcoholic drinks and gourmet (all natural) popcorn. It's the bomb yo.

eat at home before the movie and use free movie tickets. That's the way to see a movie. A movie is what 2-3 hours at most? Do you really need to eat/drink during a movie? So sayeth the resident lazy fatass.

[sally]

You know Clang, it's very possible that BG doesn't have a Jew brother like your's that sits at home all day bugging the radio stations for free concert and movie tickets.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

We saw it at the Muvico Premier, Valet parking, 5 star restaurant, nice bottle of wine, free popcorn, plush cushy seats and no kids. All for a lil over $100
Deal