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looking for a man in a hoodie. Damn that Bill Belichek, does he never quit?
Thank god I am oblivious to the opinions of others while caught in the blinding splendor of my own cleverness.
Thanks Donovan.

It's too bad the surveillance video near where the Porsche was torched is so blurry.

^ Video of POI and the vehicle released by DC Police.
The Phone Records & House Visits Before the Fire

The Savopoulos home was set on fire at about 1:30 p.m. on Thursday, 14 May.

Housekeeper Nelitza Gutierrez told police that she got a voice mail from Savvas Savopoulos on Wednesday night saying that his wife was sick and Philip was home from school with an injury. He told her that her friend and fellow Savopoulos' housekeeper Veralicia Figueroa was going to stay the night to help, but that Figueroa's phone had died and she had no charger. He asked Gutierrez to call Figueroa’s relatives to relay the message.

Nelitza Gutierrez had worked for the family for 20 years. She had been helping Mr. Savopoulos prepare for the upcoming grand opening of his new martial arts studio/business in Chantilly as well. She said that message left her with the impression that something was amiss with her employers. She said Savvas Savopoulos told her in person Wednesday that his wife had plans to go out, but said in the voice mail left later that night that Amy Savopoulos had been sick in bed all day.

Gutierrez said she didn't listen to the message until Thursday morning and immediately called Amy Savopoulos “to see if she was okay, but she never answered.”

“It was something very suspicious because I felt his voice (on the message from Wed night) was really tense,” Gutierrez said in Spanish. “And it was different than what he had said to me before.” She also said that she had never known Figueroa to stay overnight at the home and thought it was odd. “Never, never did she stay over.”

Minutes before 10 a.m. Thursday morning, Gutierrez got a text message from Amy Savopoulos: “I am making sure you do not come today.” Gutierrez, who was then cleaning another home in McLean, replied that she would not be coming, per Savvas Savopoulos’ earlier orders, according to the police documents.

Phone records also show attempts by friends and relatives to reach the victims Thursday morning before the house was set ablaze.

Also Thursday morning, one of Savopoulos’ assistants apparently left a package outside the Woodland Drive house, according to the police records. That person then drove to Chantilly and was there through the day. And at roughly the same time, Figueroa’s husband went to the house to check on his wife. There apparently was no answer. (HOTD: No info on whether Mr. Figueroa tried to contact his wife when she didn't come home on Wed. night, or whether Gutierrez called him when she reportedly got Mr. Savopoulos' message on Thursday morning, or what Mr. Figueroa did after going to the Savopoulos house on Thursday morning).

(05-16-2015, 11:23 AM)Duchess Wrote:

You know the cops are looking hard at the housekeeper who got the text.

I think the culprit is either known to the family or someone who knew of them. I don't think that's the kind of neighborhood people just pass through on their way to someplace else.

Oh yeah.

I'm not accusing anyone, just speculating based on what's known to the public now.

If I was an investigator in the case, I'd be all over housekeeper Gutierrez. She's at the center of so much of the victims' communication around the time of the crime.

I'd wanna know:

1. Is there anything to support what Gutierrez said in the interview yesterday -- specifically that Savvas Savopoulos had asked her to help at the martial arts studio on Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday, instead of at the couple’s home on Thursday?

2. When did she commit to cleaning the house in McLean on Thursday (which would be her alibi, I presume)? She'd normally be at the Savopolous home on Thursdays.

3. If the crimes started on Wednesday night, why would the criminal holding captives inside the Savopoulos home be so worried about a housekeeper showing up the next morning as to have Mr. Savopoulos call her and possibly tip her off? Seems less risky to just let her enter the house and sabotage her. And, why would the captor plan on still being there the next day anyway?

4. If the crimes started on Thursday, why would Mrs. Savopoulos be so worried first thing in the morning about Gutierrez coming to the house if her husband had already told Gutierrez twice (once in-person and once by voice mail) that he'd cancelled her for the day?

Maybe whoever killed the Savopoulos' and Figueroa knew Gutierrez and didn't want to have to kill her too? Or, maybe Gutierrez was involved in the crimes and she's trying to create a self-serving narrative? Or, maybe the Savapoulos' were trying to send covert SOS to Guiterrez while under watch of their captors and she just missed the cues?

Or, maybe there are logical answers to all of the questions and Gutierrez isn't connected to the crimes in any way at all.

...and if the other housekeeper's phone died why couldn't she use the house phone? That sorta seems like a no brainer to me.
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(05-17-2015, 01:52 PM)Duchess Wrote: ...and if the other housekeeper's phone died why couldn't she use the house phone? That sorta seems like a no brainer to me.

That's a good point.

It doesn't seem logical to me, assuming the home was still safe on Wednesday night, that Mr. S would leave a message for Guiterrez not to come to the house on Thursday because the family was sick when she claims he told her not to come that day anyway.

And, it doesn't make sense that he'd ask Guiterrez to call Figueroa's family to tell them Figueroa would be uncharacteristically spending the night when Mr. S could have had Figueroa use his phone or the home phone to place the call herself.

I think something was already going down in that house on Wednesday night and the couple was trying to alert Gutierrez, or Gutierrez was involved in the crimes and trying to cover her bases and create an alibi.

I wonder what was in the package dropped off at the house by Mr. S's business employee before the fire was set? If it was a drop off requested on Wednesday night or Thursday morning, maybe it was ransom or something that the killer was after.

I find this mystery very interesting. I'm suspicious of the housekeeper and I'm curious to know what else the police have discovered.
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Whatever happened, happened Wednesday.

I think dad is the culprit, and stashed the car and burned his house down, for whatever reason.
(05-17-2015, 04:51 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: Whatever happened, happened Wednesday.

I think dad is the culprit, and stashed the car and burned his house down, for whatever reason.

Well, as I implied upthread, that would be dad's way of covering up the fact that he just killed 3 people in a murder/suicide plot. However, the blurry image of the man in a hoodie sorta kills that theory IMO. I do agree, that the crime started Wednesday evening if we can believe the maid re text she received not to come to work on Thursday. Man in hoodie could be her psychotic partner in crime..
I don't see the father as complicit in this crime. A possible scenario could be the maid who was going to retire back to her country set them up with the understanding it was just going to be a robbery, but her cohorts decided part way in that dead witnesses improve their chances of getting away with it. Also with her eliminated their take would be bigger since they would keep her share.

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I wish LE or a good investigative reporter would put out a time line, but I think LE is intentionally withholding some information and maybe sweating a person or two. Here are some pieces of info and observations/questions from my readings over the last few days.

If dad it, he had to have had an accomplice, or the car had to have been stolen and torched by somebody else in an unrelated crime. As far as I can tell, the Porsche was seen leaving the area around 10:30 a.m. The house started burning between 1:15 and 1:30 p.m. (dad was inside). The Porsche was torched at the church a couple of hours later.

The Crime Scene: Police sources told My Fox DC that first responders found a “savage, bloody and obvious crime scene,” when they arrived at the scene. LE reported that they can not yet tell if anything is missing from the home and evidence collection will take days.

The Homicides: Police confirmed that at least three of the victims were bludgeoned or stabbed before the fire was set. That doesn't mean the fourth victim was not killed prior to the fire. Perhaps he/she was too badly burned to tell immediately. Or, perhaps that victim was killed by other not-so-obvious means prior to the arson. It's also possible that one of the victims was still alive when pulled from the fire but died shortly thereafter.

Surveillance: In an exclusive area of DC -- near the Vice President's and several ambassadors' residences -- there's gotta be a whole lot more surveillance of the neighborhood and the various paths between the house and the church where the Porsche was torched. It was a very distinctive car. If LE hasn't traced its travels yet, I think they will have a good idea soon enough.

Victims' last known communications: Debra Masser is Mr. Savopoulos' sister. She told police that she spoke to her brother on the phone on Thursday morning and that he sounded normal and upbeat. If that's true, Mr. S. obviously had to be alive and either conning his sister or being threatened to play it cool by a captor.

Housekeeper Gutierrez said she spoke to Mr. Savopoulos on Wednesday in-person. I haven't seen any information about the last time anybody spoke to or saw any of the other victims.

Other: There was an early media piece about lawn service working at the Savopolous house on Wednesday or Thursday and a guy hanging around outside the house trying to find his brother who was supposed to be part of the crew. I can't find anything on it now and don't know if it was verified or not. There were also reports of an aggressive door to door vacuum salesman in the neighborhood.

It was reported on his Facebook page that along with being a chief executive at American Iron Works, a licensed instructor in three Japanese martial arts, and a soon-to-be owner of a martial arts studio, Mr. Savopoulos was also the chairman of the board of Sigma Enterprises Ltd., an international trading firm. He'd reportedly just accepted a job with a Puerto Rico-based company.

Who stands to gain financially? I would like to know who stands to inherit; what does the will state?

New overview:
I think it was a business related killing. The maid's story rings true if the father was trying to alert somebody to the danger that was clearly there on Wednesday night, If so, the amount of guilt she must be feeling at not listening to her messages right away must be eating at her. Meanwhile, pops had a shitload of money as the CEO, and I'd suspect at least one shady connection if he was involved in major construction on the east coast. The whole frigging seaboard is corrupt as hell, and DC is probably the most corrupt place of all. The efficiency of the killings and the cover-up would indicate a business kill not a crime of passion and at the very least a little bit of forethought on the part of the killer, who almost certainly sent the second text thursday morning.

That eliminates the daughters, who would not have the presence of mind to hire professionals to kill mommy and daddy and would probably have spared junior. It eliminates dad because dad's dead. Not a good plan.

I'd be checking all dad's business deals and associates. Especially partners and investors and upcoming projects. I'd also look at cash transfers made anytime early in the week, especially wednesday, from the family accounts. If it was a home invasion thing there was a reason they were kept alive for a little while. Most likely to arrange a payment.
Thank god I am oblivious to the opinions of others while caught in the blinding splendor of my own cleverness.
I know suspecting Dad is thin, but the lack of any withdrawals or ransom demands (that we know of at this time) makes this very strange to me.

Could dad have killed mom (discovered something about her) and it was witnessed by housekeeper and son? Desperate for what to do next, he finally decides to commit suicide, but does it in a way that will not sully his name and reputation by concocting a coverup which would make it appear to be a home invasion/robbery?

I'm reaching I know, but enjoy going out on a limb.
I guess there could have been safe in the house, but usually mystery is solved by identifying "who will benefit most financially from the deaths?" Undoubtedly, this guy had enemies because of his power/money, but if you follow the money, it leads back to the daughters. Maybe 10 year old was not supposed to be at home. It said in news report, that housekeeper said he was home due to a go kart injury.
I think someone with Mr. Savopoulos' level of wealth would have a will, possibly with provisions for people other than the spouse and children.

That's what I'm curious about -- when was the last time the will was amended and does anyone (or any organization) included or excluded as a beneficiary raise any eyebrows?

I'm not convinced the murders were exclusively financially-motivated. But, if the murderer(s) was known to any of the victims, I think it's likely that both passion and money were factors. Bludgeoning and stabbing usually means slow, painful, and very messy deaths.
I don't think financial gain had anything to do with inheritance. I think a random robbery could easily set up shop for 2 days. It could be that the father was trying to get money out of the bank, but requested such a large sum that the bank required more time... that's a common safeguard. He goes home and tells kidnapper/robber that it's gonna take more time, they tell the housekeeper not to come in to work while they sit all cozy and poppa keeps cool or else everyone dies. Talk to your sis and pretend everything's ok, then alert the other housekeeper's family that she's ok (which she isn't.) She couldn't use the house phone because she's too hysterical (or already dead because the criminal wanted to prove his threats.)

Then who knows what happens, but the robber kills all 4 of them including poppa, takes the car out, torches everything. He had a bag in his hand while walking and I bet it's full of cash.
I can't tell for sure Cutz, but the POI seems to be holding a bucket not a bag. That's what I see anyway.

He or she (I can't tell gender for sure from the video either) would have to be very brazen not to stash the goods before ditching and torching the car. Walking around with stolen valuables like that during the day would also be very risky.

The murderer(s) could be very brazen though; your theory might prove to be right. It sounds very close to what happened in the Petit home invasion/murder/arson case in CT a few years back. In that case, the two pieces of shit were strangers to the family who followed the mom and youngest daughter home from a store. They tied up the dad downstairs and the oldest daughter in her bedroom. They forced mom to drive to the bank and withdraw a large sum of money the next day, raped the mom and youngest daughter, beat and attempted to kill the father and succeeded in killing the mom and two girls, and then set the house on fire.

I wonder what the Savopoulos and Figueroa autopsies will reveal; hopefully something that will help identify and convict the murderer(s).
(05-18-2015, 09:07 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: It sounds very close to what happened in the Petit home invasion/murder/arson case in CT a few years back.

Out of all the godawful stories we've talked about in here that one affected me the most. I still think about the horror that family went through.
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(05-18-2015, 09:12 AM)Duchess Wrote:
(05-18-2015, 09:07 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: It sounds very close to what happened in the Petit home invasion/murder/arson case in CT a few years back.
Out of all the godawful stories we've talked about in here that one affected me the most. I still think about the horror that family went through.

The Petit case was horrific and terribly sad. That poor family lived through terror and hell for many hours. And, IMO the police were so far over their heads that they really missed an opportunity to save three lives while they waited silently outside the house.

I hope the victims in this case were not raped and tortured along with being brutally murdered like that; hope they went quickly.

The Savopolous' are said to have owned and displayed a very expensive art collection. Personally, I can't see stealing fine art as being a motive -- hard to fence. But, I am interested to learn what appears to be missing from the house and if there were any suspicious large withdrawals from their personal or business accounts recently.
ABC News has a good video recapping the case.

The linked video ^ includes audio of the voice mail left for housekeeper Gutierrez on Wednesday night, along with a picture of the text sent to Gutierrez from Mrs. Savopoulos' phone on Thursday morning.

There's a quick interview with Gutierrez as well.