I just dont get the waiting two hours to call that all I was saying NOT NORMAL .

"Unknown": Nothing from you today?

maybe she just not a good friend. I know I would called someone before 2 hours

(02-05-2011, 03:13 PM)jcat Wrote: but there is only 1 gas station open that late and most ghetto marts close at 11 around here without driving to one

jcat you must be confused as to the general area in question. the crime scene is close to the intersection of I-475 and airport hwy, there are 24-hour stores and businesses littered about that area.

-pink

(02-05-2011, 03:15 PM)jcat Wrote: I just dont get the waiting two hours to call that all I was saying NOT NORMAL .

as far as I know, "tiffany's" cell records have not yet been released to the general public. my guess would be that during those 2 hours there were likely many phone calls both to and from "tiffany's" cell phone.

-pink

(02-05-2011, 10:13 AM)pinkyfloyd Wrote:

(02-05-2011, 07:03 AM)shitstorm Wrote: Unknown, what's up with that gruesome picture?

ironically enough, that "gruesome" picture is from one of the funniest movies ever made. it's a picture of one of the Hanson brothers from the hockey movie "Slapshot" starring Paul Newman.

-pink

Thanks for that, Pink. Context, eh?

we are talking where was tiff getting picked up at she said she went to the store i know where holland is. i am a mile from airport and I -475. she was in south toledo which is 10mins from holland there is very few 24 hours stores in south toled expect like a speedway.

I am torn between the theroy that she is involved and the crazy ex. Cause there is alot of crazy ex's out there.

(02-05-2011, 03:21 PM)shitstorm Wrote: Thanks for that, Pink. Context, eh?

context is everything

-pink

(02-05-2011, 03:23 PM)jcat Wrote: we are talking where was tiff getting picked up at she said she went to the store i know where holland is. i am a mile from airport and I -475. she was in south toledo which is 10mins from holland there is very few 24 hours stores in south toled expect like a speedway.

so what is it that would make you think she wasn't referring to a speedway?

-pink

(02-05-2011, 03:33 PM)jcat Wrote: I am torn between the theroy that she is involved and the crazy ex. Cause there is alot of crazy ex's out there.

see my previous comments regarding a crazy ex please.

i am 100% confident the crazy ex theory has been fully eliminated by LE.

and also, based on my opinion of how "tiffany" sounded on 911 call #2, she's not at all involved.

once again, every shred of official news on this case supports my theory.

one more point to mull: a getaway route for my theoretical killers. this scene is about 8 minutes from the interchange of I-75 and I-80/90. super simple main thoroughfare route to any one of detroit, chicago, nyc, or miami. a literal stone's throw from the intersection of america. couldn't be much easier.

likely wasn't even a very expensive hit.

-pink

(02-05-2011, 12:48 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: Tim, you don't have PM ability until i make you a member at some point soon.
but as far as other sites where names are used, i would only suggest googling victims' names. i do not wish to link or promote other sites with different rules than mine. thanks for understanding.


to everyone:
there are people involved in this case that are named all over the place. until LE calls them a person of interest or they have appeared in media, i don't use their names. that's just common decency. especially if they are a juvenile. give your opinions and speculation within certain parameters, it is your First Amendment right.
this is a good place to mention my rules for this forum. this is a good time because MANY people from Ohio have logged on or joined in past few days.
i don't allow vile gossip to be stated as fact. i rely on main stream media, and LE for facts. i also have private contacts and sources i don't mention.
you have complete freedom here with 2 exceptions, no posting any member's personal info, and no threats. also i do not delete posts as i have been asked much after the fact. think about what you are posting. Mock has a no delete policy since it is required that all posters are adults and responsible for what they say. i am not punitive. i am simply covering my cute ass.

Great policy, LC. I've seen some of the forums where the old bats hang out and do just what you're avoiding. Imagine knowing some murder victim and the next thing you know a bunch of obsessed lunatics in cyberspace have you implicated in the crime. People can be real jackals.

Thanks for the welcome (previous post).

(02-05-2011, 03:35 PM)pinkyfloyd Wrote:

(02-05-2011, 03:23 PM)jcat Wrote: we are talking where was tiff getting picked up at she said she went to the store i know where holland is. i am a mile from airport and I -475. she was in south toledo which is 10mins from holland there is very few 24 hours stores in south toled expect like a speedway.

so what is it that would make you think she wasn't referring to a speedway?
-pink

logically thinking its been 5f out around for the last week. you wont of walk there that is all I am saying is that probably drove store. why didnt they just take themselves to the house?

(02-05-2011, 03:50 PM)jcat Wrote: logically thinking its been 5f out around for the last week. you wont of walk there that is all I am saying is that probably drove store. why didnt they just take themselves to the house?

1) it hasn't been 5 degrees fahrenheit in the area since before christmas

2) i don't know why she didn't drive, i don't know if she had a car, i don't know if she lived right next door to a speedway. what i do know is nothing she said in the 911 tapes or was quoted in the media as saying even remotely points to her as being involved.

people have an insatiable need to try to have believable explanations for events. it's not easy to sleep soundly at night believing that two mysterious strangers are responsible for this crime and it's likely that we'll never know who they are. and with every day that passes without a definitive statement from LE, that becomes even more true. and with every day that passes i become even more convinced of the veracity of my own personal theory.

we are never going to know who killed johnny and lisa.

i can accept that. i can accept that and not live in fear of killers such as these perps because i choose to not entangle myself in the same sorts of (both alleged and proven in court) activities that johnny and lisa were involved in.

-pink

Tiffany wasn't the only one that supposed to go over there to hang out with them. She was at Mr.Z house and both of them were supposed to go over there to hang out. I like the fact that jcat says if it walks like a duck, talks likes a duck, its a duck. Well knowing how they are (thug-life) its not like they were going over there to play scrabble. They knew what was supposed to happen there that night and I don't think it was just to hang out and drink a beers between the four of them. Crazy Fact: When the LE arrived the first time they could hear the TV on and could see that the lights in the house were on. On the second call when the LE arrived the TV was off and some of the lights were turned off. So if the killer(s) were in the house why didn't the LE see there car? After hearing the door bell ring from the LE, why would the killers in the end turn off the TV and a few lights? If they parked on a side street I wonder if any neighbors reported to the detectives a car parked around there that night that didn't look familiar.

(02-05-2011, 02:46 PM)pinkyfloyd Wrote:

(02-05-2011, 02:44 PM)BlueTiki Wrote: So . . .

Anyone have a guess on the ages, gender and number of the killers?

if my theory holds true, two caucasian, middle-aged males (35-40).

-pink

^^This

(02-05-2011, 03:15 PM)jcat Wrote: I just dont get the waiting two hours to call that all I was saying NOT NORMAL .

If you and your friends are a bunch of dopers, and some are ex cons, calling parents is usually a last resort.

(02-05-2011, 04:07 PM)Unknown Wrote: Tiffany wasn't the only one that supposed to go over there to hang out with them. She was at Mr.Z house and both of them were supposed to go over there to hang out. I like the fact that jcat says if it walks like a duck, talks likes a duck, its a duck. Well knowing how they are (thug-life) its not like they were going over there to play scrabble. They knew what was supposed to happen there that night and I don't think it was just to hang out and drink a beers between the four of them. Crazy Fact: When the LE arrived the first time they could hear the TV on and could see that the lights in the house were on. On the second call when the LE arrived the TV was off and some of the lights were turned off. So if the killer(s) were in the house why didn't the LE see there car? After hearing the door bell ring from the LE, why would the killers in the end turn off the TV and a few lights? If they parked on a side street I wonder if any neighbors reported to the detectives a car parked around there that night that didn't look familiar.

I doubt that at that hour on a cold Sunday night anyone would've seen anything, such as an unfamilar car. Those are large homes with lots of space around them, and most people hang in their family rooms - usually in the rear of their house, likely with curtains drawn closed. I think it would be easy for a perp(s) to move around mostly undetected.

Approximate times for algor and rigor mortis

Body temperature Body stiffness Time since death
warm not stiff dead not more than three hours
warm stiff dead 3 to 8 hours
cold stiff dead 8 to 36 hours
cold not stiff dead more than 36 hours

SOURCE: Stærkeby, M. "What Happens after Death?" In the University of Oslo Forensic Entomology [web site]. Available from http://folk.uio.no/mostarke/forens_ent/afterdeath.shtml.

If Johnny's dad says he went to give him CPR and he was cold to the touch it may seem that he may have been dead before 11:00 if they found them at 4.

John Clarke broke into the Straubs' home and tore the bags off the victims' heads so he could give them CPR. As he did, he discovered that their faces were already cold.

Dr. Patrick said his office could not pinpoint a time of death.

hi my partners in crime , i've been busy as hell and just caught up. and thanks Tim. i was going to make sure everyone read that post, i am sure i'll cite it again as more people join discussion. Post is on page 11, #149. Please read it members.


first, this is link to video/recording of 911 calls. in case anyone has not heard them. about 15 minutes worth. form your own conclusions---->

http://www.toledoonthemove.com/news/stor...?id=576342

and since Tiffany has been named in the media and on the calls (no last name yet, but i am holding a photo of her for now.) i will add my theory to what happened. i have pretty much alluded to what i think, but here it is again. be advised, this is ONLY my Constitutionally-protected opinion based on years of dealing with murderers and homicides. as well as my inner lie detector, which usually does not fail me. in otherwords...my gut, to use a common phrase. being human, i can be way off base.

Tiffany, in rumor and gossip and a purported inside person on the internet, is reputed to be involved with the sale of drugs. the evidence at the scene supports drug use by the victims, scale, baggies, etc.
my main feeling is that she made the call to the mother of Johnny. but that SHE DID NOT HEAR WHAT SHE CLAIMED TO HAVE HEARD. BIG FAT RED HERRING AS I SAID EARLIER. DESIGNED TO DEFLECT AND MISLEAD.
THAT IS MY OPINION AND I COULD BE WRONG. if that is the case, she is involved with the murders in some capacity. we will know when the police finally name suspect(s).
other things concern me and don't add up, but i'm not going to speculate too much until more facts are known.
i also want to note, anyone can come here and claim to be a relative, witness, or peter pan. i do not verify them. i just "listen".
i know for a fact in some instances people who are named and discussed in some of my threads have come here to read. that's OK. i don't mind, i welcome them and their input. some have tried to "fool" me. it hasn't worked.