(02-06-2011, 12:18 AM)Lady Cop Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:15 AM)shitstorm Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:06 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: shitstorm, are you ignoring my PM i sent hours ago? if so, you will be severely punished. i will take away your decoder ring.

Woops, lol! Didn't notice. I'll go look.

Meanwhile I found this:

Quote:nothingnumb said:

what the media fails to inform anyone is that johnny was into serious shit gangs, drugs, and weapons. lisa first met him when he was right out of jail for armed robbery, i feel guilty talking down about the deceased but johnny took my friend lisa down because of the bullshit he was involved with. everyone continues to try and make him out to be a kid with his shit together it wasnt he continually bragged to people about all the people he would rob. she didnt deserve to be prematurely taken from this earth tortured and left to die in her parents kitchen and nor did johnny but i am sick to my stomach with disgust over this picture being painted of him being a saint he wasnt and i can bet my life on the fact that he WAS the reason this happened. i wish we could have been stronger to tell her to stay away but she loved him and as a friend i respected that and i know many others did too. people responsible need to be apprehended immediately because what they did deserves the same that they gave my friend they need to leave this earth by captial punishment and im terrified that somehow they will slip through the cracks. i love you lisa rest peacefully my little angel.
Posted 02/02/2011 at 05:00:35 PM

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/02/j...aub_fo.php

that is what i mean by unsubstantiated rumor.

Fair point. Anyone can say anything (even the "authorities"). I may have been inclined to believe this because of his prison history. I saw another post there, from someone who claimed to know them, that said he was a drug dealer. I'm gonna take a wild guess and say his mother knew about it, too, and that was why she was so worried when she got that call.

/speculation

Hi Jane! welcome to Mock and my forum~~ thanks for joining. i may crash soon, but hope to see more of your comments.


btw...would all who don't have one, load an avatar please? it helps me to recognize you-- there are so many new people. thanks!

(02-06-2011, 12:46 AM)shitstorm Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:23 AM)Winter Wrote: I too feel that T is involved in this horrific crime. The phone calls T made to Johnny are suspicious. It almost seems that perhaps the call she made to Johnny and he stated he was on his way, was some sort of signal. For I think she knew the perpetraters was in wait in the open garage. It's also suspicious that T took two hours before she called a friend, who in turn was civil enough to call Johnny's Mother. T also said that she went over to the house after being concerned and could see all the lights on, and the Cabinets ranshacked. This would indicate that T was in the house, how eles would she have noted the cabinets? T is either involved directly, or indirectly. The cell phone records will tell the story. It isn't unusual for those involved to interject themselves after the crime, and act concerned. It's often more of thrill to them knowing they had a hand in the investigation.

Do you have a link regarding her saying anything about cabinets?

.com/news/sthttp://www.toledoonthemoveory.aspx?id=576342

The above is a link to the entire 911 calls. You will hear the Mother state what T told her about the cabinets.

Pinky, one of our members who posted here has also posted there.

(02-06-2011, 12:48 AM)Lady Cop Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:34 AM)MzFruit Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:27 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: Welcome Winter! thanks for joining..i LIKE winter!

correct me someone if i am wrong, i am quite tired. been here for many hours. wasn't it Tiffany, and not a friend of Tiffany who called Johnny's mother?

According to the released information, Tiffany went by the house PRIOR to telling or calling anyone, then phoned a friend who called the Mother of Johnny.

She said the friend who was expecting Mr. Clarke and Miss Straub to pick her up that night tried repeatedly to reach them by phone and text message, but could not get either of them. She went to the house, rang the doorbell repeatedly, but got no answer. A friend of hers eventually called Mr. Clarke's mother, who then called 911.
http://www.toledoblade.com/article/20110.../102020307

it was Tiffany on the recorded 911 calls. not a friend. maybe i have missed something. got a link?

(02-06-2011, 12:46 AM)shitstorm Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:23 AM)Winter Wrote: I too feel that T is involved in this horrific crime. The phone calls T made to Johnny are suspicious. It almost seems that perhaps the call she made to Johnny and he stated he was on his way, was some sort of signal. For I think she knew the perpetraters was in wait in the open garage. It's also suspicious that T took two hours before she called a friend, who in turn was civil enough to call Johnny's Mother. T also said that she went over to the house after being concerned and could see all the lights on, and the Cabinets ranshacked. This would indicate that T was in the house, how eles would she have noted the cabinets? T is either involved directly, or indirectly. The cell phone records will tell the story. It isn't unusual for those involved to interject themselves after the crime, and act concerned. It's often more of thrill to them knowing they had a hand in the investigation.

Do you have a link regarding her saying anything about cabinets?

I'm not winter, but this is where the 911 calls get confusing. Apparently, T didn't immediately call anyone, except another friend of hers...JC's mother explains this in one of the 911 calls, that a friend of T's called her, telling her what T said about the phone call w/Johnny, & the house being ransacked, etc...I think this is what makes the mother suspicious of T, to start with; the fact she didn't call herself. I'm giving T the benefit of the doubt, though - - - for now

(02-06-2011, 12:51 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: Hi Jane! welcome to Mock and my forum~~ thanks for joining. i may crash soon, but hope to see more of your comments.


btw...would all who don't have one, load an avatar please? it helps me to recognize you-- there are so many new people. thanks!

will do, & thanks!

(02-06-2011, 12:57 AM)MzFruit Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:48 AM)Lady Cop Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:34 AM)MzFruit Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:27 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: Welcome Winter! thanks for joining..i LIKE winter!

correct me someone if i am wrong, i am quite tired. been here for many hours. wasn't it Tiffany, and not a friend of Tiffany who called Johnny's mother?

According to the released information, Tiffany went by the house PRIOR to telling or calling anyone, then phoned a friend who called the Mother of Johnny.

She said the friend who was expecting Mr. Clarke and Miss Straub to pick her up that night tried repeatedly to reach them by phone and text message, but could not get either of them. She went to the house, rang the doorbell repeatedly, but got no answer. A friend of hers eventually called Mr. Clarke's mother, who then called 911.
http://www.toledoblade.com/article/20110.../102020307

it was Tiffany on the recorded 911 calls. not a friend. maybe i have missed something. got a link?

ok this? A friend of hers eventually called Mr. Clarke's mother, who then called 911.

i think it's more bad/confused reporting. nobody is on 911 except mom and Tiffany.

(02-06-2011, 01:01 AM)Lady Cop Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:57 AM)MzFruit Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:48 AM)Lady Cop Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:34 AM)MzFruit Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:27 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: Welcome Winter! thanks for joining..i LIKE winter!

correct me someone if i am wrong, i am quite tired. been here for many hours. wasn't it Tiffany, and not a friend of Tiffany who called Johnny's mother?

According to the released information, Tiffany went by the house PRIOR to telling or calling anyone, then phoned a friend who called the Mother of Johnny.

She said the friend who was expecting Mr. Clarke and Miss Straub to pick her up that night tried repeatedly to reach them by phone and text message, but could not get either of them. She went to the house, rang the doorbell repeatedly, but got no answer. A friend of hers eventually called Mr. Clarke's mother, who then called 911.
http://www.toledoblade.com/article/20110.../102020307

it was Tiffany on the recorded 911 calls. not a friend. maybe i have missed something. got a link?

ok this? A friend of hers eventually called Mr. Clarke's mother, who then called 911.

i think it's more bad/confused reporting. nobody is on 911 except mom and Tiffany.

Could very well be. However I interpreted as a "if you arent going to fucking call her I WILL," then Tiffany had NO CHOICE but to talk to Mom about it.

Johnny's Mother did state the name of the girl who initially called her. I surmise Johnny's Mother got the number of T from this friend, and called T. The Mother probably demanded that T tell her all she knows, then T offered to pick up Johnny's father and take him to the house.

I think it's like this:

Tiffany's FRIEND called the mom. When the mom went to the scene, Tiffany was there and that's where Tiffany speaks to the 911 operator.

Once again, during that 911 call, the mom accuses Tiffany of setting Johnny up. I've got a hunch that his mom has some street smarts and she was right. I said this earlier - Tiffany was involved in a set up and went to check out the scene, later, not expecting murder.

Now, here's the part I can't fathom - the duct tape and bags over the heads. Of course, I'm not a psychopath, so there's a lot I can't fathom. What does it mean that they were killed that way? Speculation .... Robbers didn't have weapons and resorted to what happened. It just seems like a stretch. Then again, lots of crimes do. If it went down like that then it means it was NOT personal. I don't know. I have no "feel" for the truth of it.

(02-06-2011, 12:57 AM)MzFruit Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:48 AM)Lady Cop Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:34 AM)MzFruit Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:27 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: Welcome Winter! thanks for joining..i LIKE winter!

correct me someone if i am wrong, i am quite tired. been here for many hours. wasn't it Tiffany, and not a friend of Tiffany who called Johnny's mother?

According to the released information, Tiffany went by the house PRIOR to telling or calling anyone, then phoned a friend who called the Mother of Johnny.

She said the friend who was expecting Mr. Clarke and Miss Straub to pick her up that night tried repeatedly to reach them by phone and text message, but could not get either of them. She went to the house, rang the doorbell repeatedly, but got no answer. A friend of hers eventually called Mr. Clarke's mother, who then called 911.
http://www.toledoblade.com/article/20110.../102020307

it was Tiffany on the recorded 911 calls. not a friend. maybe i have missed something. got a link?

BTW, that means that Tiffany was there TWICE. She was there when the bodies were found because that's when she was on the phone with 911.

I went to the website you listed and found this posting.

justright said:
1. If it was a robbery, they had to know lisa and johnny because they knew lisas parents were out of town, and if they knew lisa and johnny they would know what time lisa worked till, wouldn't you rather rob a empty house? I think that would make more sense.
2. Lisa nor johnny were poor, lisa was a waitress at tgi fridays for gods sake, waitressing you make pretty damn good money. I know they weren't heavily involved in drugs, and if they owed any money I find it hard to believe they weren't able to pay it off.
3. No footprints? Fishy. Unless the killer walked in previously made tracks in order to prevent creating new tracks.
4. The killer has to know the victims well bc the timing was way to precise. He wasn't after money, drugs, he was after blood. He planned it out way to perfectly, this is someone with a grudge who has been waiting for the perfect opportunity to get there revenge, someone who has been in lisas house before.
5. The phone call to the friend was made at 11pm so they were murdered pretty early, and lisas head was bashed in. From what I am told, the scene was gruesome, it wasn't just a hit and run. My conclusion is that the robbery was staged. The killer spent some time in that house covering there tracks and setting the scene up.
6. If it was over drugs wouldn't it make more sense to catch johnny alone one time outside of the suburbs in holland. Lisas neighborhood is an upscale, very nice neighborhood. It takes some guts to commit a crime on a sunday night so early in such an upscale place. This is someone from the area, who is familiar with the neighborhood, and know the people around it.
this was not over drugs, money, robbery, or a random act. this was a result of revenge and hate

Posted 02/02/2011 at 11:00:52 PM

(02-06-2011, 01:10 AM)Winter Wrote: Johnny's Mother did state the name of the girl who initially called her. I surmise Johnny's Mother got the number of T from this friend, and called T. The Mother probably demanded that T tell her all she knows, then T offered to pick up Johnny's father and take him to the house.

Right, but I can't remember what the girl's name is...Sherita? or something like that? I think what you posted is how it went down, from what I can make of the 911 calls. T's friend took it upon herself to call Johnny's mother, then SHE took control of the situation, got hold of T, & they all met up at the house.

that's why i think it IS personal. i said this about 873 pages ago.

they covered their faces because they KNEW them. this was up close and personal. they felt badly on some level. murder was not planned so they used what was on hand. they went there for drugs, not to kill. but it all went bad. who the fuck arms themselves with plastic bags? please. not exactly sure-fire weapons.


just my opinion.

cool avatar Jane! i just saw it.

(02-06-2011, 01:24 AM)shitstorm Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:57 AM)MzFruit Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:48 AM)Lady Cop Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:34 AM)MzFruit Wrote:

(02-06-2011, 12:27 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: Welcome Winter! thanks for joining..i LIKE winter!

correct me someone if i am wrong, i am quite tired. been here for many hours. wasn't it Tiffany, and not a friend of Tiffany who called Johnny's mother?

According to the released information, Tiffany went by the house PRIOR to telling or calling anyone, then phoned a friend who called the Mother of Johnny.

She said the friend who was expecting Mr. Clarke and Miss Straub to pick her up that night tried repeatedly to reach them by phone and text message, but could not get either of them. She went to the house, rang the doorbell repeatedly, but got no answer. A friend of hers eventually called Mr. Clarke's mother, who then called 911.
http://www.toledoblade.com/article/20110.../102020307

it was Tiffany on the recorded 911 calls. not a friend. maybe i have missed something. got a link?

BTW, that means that Tiffany was there TWICE. She was there when the bodies were found because that's when she was on the phone with 911.

exactly!

Im with ya shitstorm! Dammit, I been sick to my stomach since this as been released. I am a local and do know a few of the persons who could possibly be involved. By NO MEANS have I a personal involvment with ANY of them, THANK GOD! But entirely too close to home to rest easy until some of the questions out here are answered!

just saw your post ZEROSPHERES, and i thank you for joining and your opinion....welcome!

Yes, it was Sherita or something like that!

I say Tiffany is in deep shit. OPINION ONLY.


ZEROSPHERES - That post is also a lot of speculation but the part about hate resonates for me. It would not fit if it was a set for theft, though. If it was a set up to rob the house, then the people sent were seriously hard core to have committed those killings.

Damn, I could never be a detective.

(02-06-2011, 01:26 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: that's why i think it IS personal. i said this about 873 pages ago.

they covered their faces because they KNEW them. this was up close and personal. they felt badly on some level. murder was not planned so they used what was on hand. they went there for drugs, not to kill. but it all went bad. who the fuck arms themselves with plastic bags? please. not exactly sure-fire weapons.


just my opinion.

cool avatar Jane! i just saw it.

Thanks! Big fan of the Smashing Pumpkins, lol .. I also think it was personal. Yeah, the plastic bag-over-the-head, really makes me wonder. I think you're right, & they got those & the duct tape at the home, but IF they were prepared with this stuff, brought it with them, then it's really twisted, IMO. The only way they'd be able to get the bags around their heads, would be if they subdued them first, with the duct tape around their wrists, right? It was reported Johnny's wrists & ankles were duct taped, but only her wrists were. She would have been easier to subdue, I guess ??