Maybe Gangsta isn't the term you want to think of when you look at their pictures. Maybe Gangsta doesn't come to mind when you see the way they spell. Maybe Gangsta doesn't fit the definition when you see the hand gestures and tatoos......but it all screams Gangsta Wannabe to me.

Not splitting hairs or anything just sayin..

(02-08-2011, 10:57 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: hi and welcome all new people!
i've been away, and have to leave again. but i am trying to catch up with your comments. we had a big readership during Petit trial and Zahra case, but this has surpassed those in level of interest. thanks for being here.

someone asked me about gangs...my familiarity only extends to their tats and hand signals. there are gang units in major jurisdictions. we kept a book of all tats that we photographed to ID them as members.
a double-murder initiation? i doubt it in U.S. gangs.

Gangs have different initiations, it's hard to tell exactly what those might be, some are home invasions though those I suspect seldom extend to the point of murder, however drive by shootings are a common gang initiation in some of the larger more violent gangs.

This crime does not,at least in my opinion have a gang feeling to it.

suffocation is a very personal form of homicide, IMO they knew the assailants.

Lisa has an older sister, not sure of location though

(02-08-2011, 11:01 PM)fabulous Wrote: hey I heard a few things today...there really isn't much of a "local" rumor mill..but I heard a few things...did Lisa have a younger sister? one that possibly doesn't live locally?

No. She only has an older sister.

(02-08-2011, 10:36 PM)notsure Wrote: where does it say the fb message was sent at 1am. The news video on thread #4 only says yesterday. btw, Ive been reading mock for many days here and have noticed no one has mentioned the fact that it was very cold that sunday night. I can speculate that b/c of the extreme cold no one was hanging outside walking the streets looking for and waiting for a random opportunity to rob someone. I think were all in agreement this was an "inside job" in some form.

toledo on the move.watch the video, once the girl talks the the news person talks but she is in the back still talking watch her lips, the very first time it aired you heard her say at 1 am, now the news is talking over that, me and my spouse heard it now they will have something come of this , she said it and now they are taking it out watch the lips, you can see.

ok...just wondering...heard it through the rumor mill, and you know how that goes!

(02-08-2011, 11:05 PM)IMaDick Wrote:

(02-08-2011, 10:57 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: hi and welcome all new people!
i've been away, and have to leave again. but i am trying to catch up with your comments. we had a big readership during Petit trial and Zahra case, but this has surpassed those in level of interest. thanks for being here.

someone asked me about gangs...my familiarity only extends to their tats and hand signals. there are gang units in major jurisdictions. we kept a book of all tats that we photographed to ID them as members.
a double-murder initiation? i doubt it in U.S. gangs.

Gangs have different initiations, it's hard to tell exactly what those might be, some are home invasions though those I suspect seldom extend to the point of murder, however drive by shootings are a common gang initiation in some of the larger more violent gangs.

This crime does not,at least in my opinion have a gang feeling to it.

suffocation is a very personal form of homicide, IMO they knew the assailants.

i've been saying that for 78 pages~ thanks for backup!

(02-08-2011, 10:59 PM)jash Wrote: Tiffany says that she talked to Johnny approx. 11 PM.

Sheriff's records show at least four crews were dispatched to the scene after Mrs. Vasquez-Clarke first called 911 at 1:21 a.m. The deputies were at the scene by 1:28 a.m. and stayed approximately 11 minutes. After her second call to 911 at 2:06 a.m., two crews were dispatched and remained on scene for 36 minutes...both times finding nothing amiss. No footprints in snow, nothing. At around 4AM the last call to 911 comes in, we can maybe assume johnny's dad kicked in the door about 3:45 maybe?

so, since rigor begins in the face so to speak, and mom has said their faces didn't move (implying rigor had set in) and they were COLD,they had probably been dead at least 2 hours MINIMUM to feel really cold to the touch and even longer since rigor had set in and their faces were immovable. So I am guesstimating that they had been dead at least 3 hours by the time parents got there. I think that they actually were killed shortly after Tiff established her alibi...between 12 -1 AM. Tiff did NOT call friend until after she knew they were dead IMO,,,Tiff is the key here, she was either the lookout, making sure they were home, SOMETHING. I'm VERY interested in seeing where her pings place her during 11-1 AM on the night of the murders. Track her pings, nail her with them, and she'll start singing like a canary rolling over on everyone involved to save her own ass.

+ 1

The cell phone records will reveal a lot.

Then the mother needs to quit blaming LE for not going in when she
originally called.

Question - If Tiff said she went by the house several times, what was
she looking for?

Does anyone know the area well enough to know if there were any
security cameras on business establishments that may have captured
the cars going into the area? Sometimes suburbs have only one or
two ways in.

Didn't I read in the quotes from mother's TV appearance last night the statement she made about the family dog??? If that is truly a fact why would the killer(s) allow the family dog to live? Or was it dead as well and I missed that?

Didn't JC mom say JC and LS were supposed to pick up Ms. T and they never came and with strange call in which JC supposedly said "what do you want...."? Causing Ms T and momma to become "concerned"? If I understood this correctly how it it Ms. T suddenly has been there in a car to see the place ransacked? Ms. T also picked up JC's father to take him to LS house? HHHMMMMM why would she need a ride then?

Somebody straighten me out :B

Ok, regarding time of death, if they were "cold" as JC's mom describes it in the 911 call, they must have been gone for at least 2, if not 3 hours....just my opinion from dealings with recently dead folk in my profession. (Not trying to freak you out, it's reality :/ )

(02-08-2011, 11:10 PM)BoogyWoogy Wrote:

(02-08-2011, 10:36 PM)notsure Wrote: where does it say the fb message was sent at 1am. The news video on thread #4 only says yesterday. btw, Ive been reading mock for many days here and have noticed no one has mentioned the fact that it was very cold that sunday night. I can speculate that b/c of the extreme cold no one was hanging outside walking the streets looking for and waiting for a random opportunity to rob someone. I think were all in agreement this was an "inside job" in some form.

toledo on the move.watch the video, once the girl talks the the news person talks but she is in the back still talking watch her lips, the very first time it aired you heard her say at 1 am, now the news is talking over that, me and my spouse heard it now they will have something come of this , she said it and now they are taking it out watch the lips, you can see.

I wonder why they edited it out? And why the story with her in it has been removed from The Blade. IMO she is not involved, but may have some info that LE wants to keep quiet.

I looked up murder by suffocation/plastic bags (grisly and the last time I do THAT). Unfortunately there's a lot of info on it. One person who used that method was the BTK killer.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/se...google.com

BTW, this guy killed entire households of people ALL BY HIMSELF.

I just want to say this place is a breath of fresh air. I love the freedom we have to post whatever. I like the WS forums but they nazi-moderate the hell out the place. I know myself and many others just get so frustrated with it that we bail out.

And now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

hi all new members perhaps read threw pages, so many things to read everyone is so helpful with the speculations but to get up to date, read threw the past pages.

(02-08-2011, 11:15 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Does anyone know the area well enough to know if there were any
security cameras on business establishments that may have captured
the cars going into the area? Sometimes suburbs have only one or
two ways in.

There is a small church and an elementary school on the road leading into the neighborhood.

(02-08-2011, 11:15 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Then the mother needs to quit blaming LE for not going in when she
originally called.

Question - If Tiff said she went by the house several times, what was
she looking for?

Does anyone know the area well enough to know if there were any
security cameras on business establishments that may have captured
the cars going into the area? Sometimes suburbs have only one or
two ways in.

There are multiple ways in and out of that neighborhood. I doubt that there will be any security cameras.

LC - Do police have a 'gradiation' by vocabulary for how "f&&cked up'
a house is? I notice on the internet that messy and ransacked are
considered two different things. Thus I am wondering what the LE
said about the house being disturbed.

(02-08-2011, 11:20 PM)rotten_cotton Wrote:

(02-08-2011, 11:10 PM)BoogyWoogy Wrote:

(02-08-2011, 10:36 PM)notsure Wrote: where does it say the fb message was sent at 1am. The news video on thread #4 only says yesterday. btw, Ive been reading mock for many days here and have noticed no one has mentioned the fact that it was very cold that sunday night. I can speculate that b/c of the extreme cold no one was hanging outside walking the streets looking for and waiting for a random opportunity to rob someone. I think were all in agreement this was an "inside job" in some form.

toledo on the move.watch the video, once the girl talks the the news person talks but she is in the back still talking watch her lips, the very first time it aired you heard her say at 1 am, now the news is talking over that, me and my spouse heard it now they will have something come of this , she said it and now they are taking it out watch the lips, you can see.

I wonder why they edited it out? And why the story with her in it has been removed from The Blade. IMO she is not involved, but may have some info that LE wants to keep quiet.

man we have been wondering how at 1 since this all started, we think the killer or killers did that to make a false time line, watch something will come of that.

There is a problem that I have with the ex-boyfriend theory, assuming that there is an ex with social/personality problems. First, from the pictures of Mr. Clarke, he was a strong man. One person was not going to over power him (without a criminal tool of some sort). Next, I think it would be safe to assume if this crime was commited by a psycho boyfriend it would have to have been a solo operation. I just cannot fathom a know psycho being able to recruit people for a premeditated murder b/c of his personal feeling of betrayal. If instead the recruiting was under the guise of a robbery the recruits wouldn't go along with the addition of murder. a robbery is one thing, a murder is another. Thus since a psycho ex boyfriend would have had to most likely had to work alone if he did it, and there is no way Mr. Clarke was going to be over powered by one person, the ex-boyfriend theory fails unless...

But what about if the ex had a gun? I still feel it is a stretch and the ex theory fails. going through the mechanics of the murder, the ex could have had Ms. Straub tie up Mr. Clarke's hands and feet with the tape. Then knock Ms. Straub out, tape her up and start with the bag on her. But the ex has to put the gun down at this point and Mr. Clarke is still a strong man. How the hell is the ex going to get the bag and tape around Mr. Clarke's neck, or on Ms. Straub while Mr. Clarke watches? hands and feet taped up or not he was big enough to really push anyone around and force the ex to use the gun? I just can not imagine with the gun put down and Mr. Clarke was just going to go along with it and give up.