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(02-08-2011, 11:23 PM)Mommabear Wrote: (02-08-2011, 11:15 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Then the mother needs to quit blaming LE for not going in when she
originally called.
Question - If Tiff said she went by the house several times, what was
she looking for?
Does anyone know the area well enough to know if there were any
security cameras on business establishments that may have captured
the cars going into the area? Sometimes suburbs have only one or
two ways in.
There are multiple ways in and out of that neighborhood. I doubt that there will be any security cameras.
I know in this day and age many homes have security cameras all around their home. Some looking from the garage out their driveway and towards the street. Also many have camera right at the front door looking outwards towards the street. (I'm a courier and walking up to homes all day I notice these things) I'm sure LE has inquired about this around the neighborhood? Or any neighbors that have cameras have come forward with that info?
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(02-08-2011, 11:16 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote: Ok, regarding time of death, if they were "cold" as JC's mom describes it in the 911 call, they must have been gone for at least 2, if not 3 hours....just my opinion from dealings with recently dead folk in my profession. (Not trying to freak you out, it's reality :/ )
Bodies cool at differnt rates depending on the ambient room temps, we have no information on that , but the average is 70 to 75 degree's, it may take the body 6 to 7 hours to cool to the point that they would be cold to the touch.
The telling factor would be rigor, and as far as I know that info has not been released either.
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
John Adams
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Can LE subpoena communication that was made on JPay?
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Yes they are related....cousins I think
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I think the easiest way to get T to tell her side of the story.... bring in child protective services and have them investigate / take away her kids (I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find a reason for the state to take custody). Then if she ever wants to see her children again she can tell LE what she knows about that night. If not, the kids will probably still be better off.
IMO
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that neighborhood is a maze of roads with multiple ways in and out and there is nothing "commerical" at these ins or outs. there is a few aptments in the area and a church though.
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(02-08-2011, 11:42 PM)LabRat Wrote: I think the easiest way to get T to tell her side of the story.... bring in child protective services and have them investigate / take away her kids (I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find a reason for the state to take custody). Then if she ever wants to see her children again she can tell LE what she knows about that night. If not, the kids will probably still be better off.
IMO
Her kids dont live with her.
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Didn't I read in the quotes from mother's TV appearance last night the statement she made about the family dog??? If that is truly a fact why would the killer(s) allow the family dog to live? Or was it dead as well and I missed that?
Didn't JC mom say JC and LS were supposed to pick up Ms. T and they never came and with strange call in which JC supposedly said "what do you want...."? Causing Ms T and momma to become "concerned"? If I understood this correctly how it it Ms. T suddenly has been there in a car to see the place ransacked? Ms. T also picked up JC's father to take him to LS house? HHHMMMMM why would she need a ride then?
Sorry if I sounded like I was speculating. Been reading these posts since Friday and these are the questions that still pop up in my head and I just wondered if anyone else has these questions or if I had misunderstood the quotes from the beginning. I in no way want to speculate, just follow along. 
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(02-08-2011, 10:59 PM)jash Wrote: I briefly toyed with the idea of a gang "initiation" but I don't really think so...that's not really big around here, or at least murdering couples for initiation. Last "couples" murderers we had from here were the Cook brothers and they've been in prison a looong time.
The mom or dad stated that when the dad pulled the bags off, they were "cold" and their faces didn't "move" at all. So, just being an arm chair coroner...(I am an RN tho and have seen ALOT of dead people)
At the moment of death, the muscles relax completely—a condition called "primary flaccidity." The muscles then stiffen, perhaps due to coagulation of muscle proteins or a shift in the muscle's energy containers (ATP-ADP), into a condition known as rigor mortis. All of the body's muscles are affected. Rigor mortis begins within two to six hours of death, starting with the eyelids, neck, and jaw. This sequence may be due to the difference in lactic acid levels among different muscles, which corresponds to the difference in glycogen levels and to the different types of muscle fibers. Over the next four to six hours, rigor mortis spreads to the other muscles, including those in the internal organs such as the heart. The onset of rigor mortis is more rapid if the environment is cold and if the decedent had performed hard physical work just before death. Its onset also varies with the individual's age, sex, physical condition, and muscular build.
Tiffany says that she talked to Johnny approx. 11 PM.
Sheriff's records show at least four crews were dispatched to the scene after Mrs. Vasquez-Clarke first called 911 at 1:21 a.m. The deputies were at the scene by 1:28 a.m. and stayed approximately 11 minutes. After her second call to 911 at 2:06 a.m., two crews were dispatched and remained on scene for 36 minutes...both times finding nothing amiss. No footprints in snow, nothing. At around 4AM the last call to 911 comes in, we can maybe assume johnny's dad kicked in the door about 3:45 maybe?
so, since rigor begins in the face so to speak, and mom has said their faces didn't move (implying rigor had set in) and they were COLD,they had probably been dead at least 2 hours MINIMUM to feel really cold to the touch and even longer since rigor had set in and their faces were immovable. So I am guesstimating that they had been dead at least 3 hours by the time parents got there. I think that they actually were killed shortly after Tiff established her alibi...between 12 -1 AM. Tiff did NOT call friend until after she knew they were dead IMO,,,Tiff is the key here, she was either the lookout, making sure they were home, SOMETHING. I'm VERY interested in seeing where her pings place her during 11-1 AM on the night of the murders. Track her pings, nail her with them, and she'll start singing like a canary rolling over on everyone involved to save her own ass.
I think you're right about that. I'm just catching up, so this may have already been said, but, with her 3 kids already having 1 parent gone forever, you'd think keeping herself out of prison - for her kids' sake - would be a powerful motivator. The same thinking could probably also be applied to the baby on the way...
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(02-08-2011, 11:45 PM)MzFruit Wrote: (02-08-2011, 11:42 PM)LabRat Wrote: I think the easiest way to get T to tell her side of the story.... bring in child protective services and have them investigate / take away her kids (I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find a reason for the state to take custody). Then if she ever wants to see her children again she can tell LE what she knows about that night. If not, the kids will probably still be better off.
IMO
Her kids dont live with her.
Why the hell am I not surprised?!?
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I wonder why we still havent heard about DNA results. How LONG can it take and if they come back with nothing are they going to say that. Or will the case go cold.....????? I was sure Tiff has played a role in this....what I cant figure out is if she had a poly yesterday how is she still walking around?
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(02-08-2011, 11:45 PM)MzFruit Wrote: (02-08-2011, 11:42 PM)LabRat Wrote: I think the easiest way to get T to tell her side of the story.... bring in child protective services and have them investigate / take away her kids (I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find a reason for the state to take custody). Then if she ever wants to see her children again she can tell LE what she knows about that night. If not, the kids will probably still be better off.
IMO
Her kids dont live with her.
hmm well scratch that then... who has custody?? and WTF is the bitch doing getting pregnant again if you already have 3 fucking kids you don't have custody of ?!? Ugh.... what a world we live in
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oh yea and a smaller church and the new elementary school. school is a good bet
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(02-08-2011, 11:49 PM)LabRat Wrote: (02-08-2011, 11:45 PM)MzFruit Wrote: (02-08-2011, 11:42 PM)LabRat Wrote: I think the easiest way to get T to tell her side of the story.... bring in child protective services and have them investigate / take away her kids (I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find a reason for the state to take custody). Then if she ever wants to see her children again she can tell LE what she knows about that night. If not, the kids will probably still be better off.
IMO
Her kids dont live with her.
hmm well scratch that then... who has custody?? and WTF is the bitch doing getting pregnant again if you already have 3 fucking kids you don't have custody of ?!? Ugh.... what a world we live in
And the world wonders why we want to force some of these people to have tubal ligations....... 
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(02-08-2011, 11:52 PM)ivanna Wrote: (02-08-2011, 11:49 PM)LabRat Wrote: (02-08-2011, 11:45 PM)MzFruit Wrote: (02-08-2011, 11:42 PM)LabRat Wrote: I think the easiest way to get T to tell her side of the story.... bring in child protective services and have them investigate / take away her kids (I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find a reason for the state to take custody). Then if she ever wants to see her children again she can tell LE what she knows about that night. If not, the kids will probably still be better off.
IMO
Her kids dont live with her.
hmm well scratch that then... who has custody?? and WTF is the bitch doing getting pregnant again if you already have 3 fucking kids you don't have custody of ?!? Ugh.... what a world we live in
And the world wonders why we want to force some of these people to have tubal ligations.......
I know right!
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I really wish I had ANY faith in the Toledo Police Dept. at all... I guarantee when I get off work tonight there will be 3 marked police cars sitting at their usual Speedway here on the south side, I'm sure they already have all the information they need on this case so no need to do any real investigative work.... I would bet that most of us on this forum know more than some of the officers working the case. Last year Toledo had 11 murders unsolved out of 26 total... that's a 58% solve rate, or 42% of the murders remain unsolved.... not very good chance that this one will be solved IMHO.
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(02-09-2011, 12:07 AM)LabRat Wrote: I really wish I had ANY faith in the Toledo Police Dept. at all... I guarantee when I get off work tonight there will be 3 marked police cars sitting at their usual Speedway here on the south side, I'm sure they already have all the information they need on this case so no need to do any real investigative work.... I would bet that most of us on this forum know more than some of the officers working the case. Last year Toledo had 11 murders unsolved out of 26 total... that's a 58% solve rate, or 42% of the murders remain unsolved.... not very good chance that this one will be solved IMHO.
My thoughts exactly!!!
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(02-09-2011, 12:09 AM)MzFruit Wrote: (02-09-2011, 12:07 AM)LabRat Wrote: I really wish I had ANY faith in the Toledo Police Dept. at all... I guarantee when I get off work tonight there will be 3 marked police cars sitting at their usual Speedway here on the south side, I'm sure they already have all the information they need on this case so no need to do any real investigative work.... I would bet that most of us on this forum know more than some of the officers working the case. Last year Toledo had 11 murders unsolved out of 26 total... that's a 58% solve rate, or 42% of the murders remain unsolved.... not very good chance that this one will be solved IMHO.
My thoughts exactly!!! ditto
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(02-09-2011, 12:09 AM)MzFruit Wrote: (02-09-2011, 12:07 AM)LabRat Wrote: I really wish I had ANY faith in the Toledo Police Dept. at all... I guarantee when I get off work tonight there will be 3 marked police cars sitting at their usual Speedway here on the south side, I'm sure they already have all the information they need on this case so no need to do any real investigative work.... I would bet that most of us on this forum know more than some of the officers working the case. Last year Toledo had 11 murders unsolved out of 26 total... that's a 58% solve rate, or 42% of the murders remain unsolved.... not very good chance that this one will be solved IMHO.
My thoughts exactly!!!
Isn't Holland OH police Department handling this. That is where the crime took place, not Toledo.
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(02-09-2011, 12:13 AM)Mommabear Wrote: (02-09-2011, 12:09 AM)MzFruit Wrote: (02-09-2011, 12:07 AM)LabRat Wrote: I really wish I had ANY faith in the Toledo Police Dept. at all... I guarantee when I get off work tonight there will be 3 marked police cars sitting at their usual Speedway here on the south side, I'm sure they already have all the information they need on this case so no need to do any real investigative work.... I would bet that most of us on this forum know more than some of the officers working the case. Last year Toledo had 11 murders unsolved out of 26 total... that's a 58% solve rate, or 42% of the murders remain unsolved.... not very good chance that this one will be solved IMHO.
My thoughts exactly!!!
Isn't Holland OH police Department handling this. That is where the crime took place, not Toledo.
That's even worse~
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