(02-22-2011, 05:41 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Correct me if I am wrong.

The police said there were no injuries other than the smothering.
The neighbor said his friend or neighbor cleaned up the house and there
was blood all over.
Whose blood? And how did it get all over if Lisa and Johnny didnt have
any on them?

I'm catching up so forgive me if this has been answered- I thought maybe the 2 steak knives that were taken into evidence may hold the answer to this....? Maybe Johnny got some good licks in or something before he was subdued by the attacker(s)?
I've seen some REALLY bloody noses in the E.R. after drunken bar fights....even a simple punch to a nose or anywhere on the head can cause a lot of blood...

(02-23-2011, 03:33 PM)sharit Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 01:39 PM)Spalding Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 01:35 PM)broke331 Wrote: And as far as punch holes in the walls,who in the hell would put a safe in the wall, drywall over it. How would they get to it.

Good point. Why also would anybody keep $100k in cash at their house?

my good friends mother in law passed away and when they went to clean out her apartment they found 90,000 in cash in her closet. they also found a hand gun under her mattress. she was in her 80s. her family was shocked. pleasantly shocked.

alot of people lost trust in banks when all this recession stuff came about !

(02-23-2011, 03:36 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 05:41 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Correct me if I am wrong.

The police said there were no injuries other than the smothering.
The neighbor said his friend or neighbor cleaned up the house and there
was blood all over.
Whose blood? And how did it get all over if Lisa and Johnny didnt have
any on them?

I'm catching up so forgive me if this has been answered- I thought maybe the 2 steak knives that were taken into evidence may hold the answer to this....? Maybe Johnny got some good licks in or something before he was subdued by the attacker(s)?
I've seen some REALLY bloody noses in the E.R. after drunken bar fights....even a simple punch to a nose or anywhere on the head can cause a lot of blood...

I'm having a hard time imagining that Johnny would punch or cut one of the intruders & they wouldn't cut him back. I really hope we eventually find out what happened, play by play.

(02-23-2011, 03:35 PM)trixie Wrote: JC and LS Case Open Discussion
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How pathetic. Sorry, I was gonna post it on the Nazi page, but couldn't find it.

if you want it in future:

http://mockforums.net/thread-4854.html

it's fine here too.

Wow, I think it's crazy that these guys with Tiffany were also at a summer party with Lisa and friends, that is probably how Lisa and Johnny met, so this circle is much smaller than we think, or wider than we think, , no wonder LE hasn't said anything, OMG.

(02-22-2011, 07:42 PM)lawheeze Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 07:17 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Does anyone think that Johnny might have been totally innocent that night?

Could the bags have been put on and Tiff told to get someone to
take them off while they were still alive or do you think the perps
wanted them dead?

I don't think the perps put much thought into preserving a happy ending for Johnny and Lisa. The tape was only for the purpose of killing them. If you throw your loot and drugs into a bag, you don't tape the bag shut. You just carry it out.

totally!

(02-23-2011, 03:43 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 07:42 PM)lawheeze Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 07:17 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Does anyone think that Johnny might have been totally innocent that night?

Could the bags have been put on and Tiff told to get someone to
take them off while they were still alive or do you think the perps
wanted them dead?

I don't think the perps put much thought into preserving a happy ending for Johnny and Lisa. The tape was only for the purpose of killing them. If you throw your loot and drugs into a bag, you don't tape the bag shut. You just carry it out.

totally!

IMO -- I think that if it is true that LS' tongue was cut - I don't think they cared if they saw who they were and wanted them dead ! I know it was a rumer about the tongue but if it's true....

(02-23-2011, 03:27 PM)trixie Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 03:25 PM)EastCoastKat Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 03:21 PM)Adub Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 03:18 PM)EastCoastKat Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 03:00 PM)Duchess Wrote:

I don't know what to think anymore.

Duchess I have a picture of Tiffany that proves she knew at least 2 of these guys at the party with Lisa can I post it here?

I tried to slip the J guys last name past LC last night. But evidently she caught me

Yeah she got me too, and now it's not only 1 guy but 2, J and C.

And TS, he is in the pic with J. He isn't friends with TW, but he is friends with a couple other people that have been talked about.

Yep so that makes it 3, and I think maybe TS was the original connection.

(02-23-2011, 10:53 AM)sharit Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 10:50 AM)curious Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 01:16 AM)Spalding Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 01:10 AM)Miss Conspiracy Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 01:07 AM)Miss Conspiracy Wrote: Another good point. I really have to wonder if the suspects brought the tape/bags or got it from the house. I wish they would release more information! Lisa's parents would be able to confirm if that was possibly from their home. And about the safe... again, Mr. Z and Tiff had hung out w/JC and Lisa a few times at the house.. JC could have mentioned the safe at any of those times, or even at the party. Might as well look for that safe after the attack

also to add to this.. I doubt they went to the house with weapons. First because they didn't anticipate the attack, and I don't think someone as young and broke as Z could get a gun. He could have perhaps had a pocket knife

Then how would he have subdued a bigger man without leaving any other signs of significant trauma (as disseminated by LE)?

There very well good of been a gun involved used to subdue them, and probably used to pistol whip LS which would explain the blood from her head...let's face it, T's crowd is known to carry concealed weapons

Also wondering if the reason for the cell phones being found in pieces was to erase text messages. If I'm not mistaken records only show when a text message was sent/received but not the actual message itself

i do believe you can get text messages from phone co. remember the text messages that came out of the casey anthony case.

I called a friend who works for a cell phone company. Text messages are only available for law enforcement or a lawyer. There is some stipulation on lawyers, probable cause via LE. There is alot of paperwork involved, Im guessing a search warrant type request. Once this paperwork is done, there is nothing the cell phone company can do, they have to turn over the info. The text info comes from the company headquarters...it cant be done in a regular office where you go buy a phone etc.

(02-23-2011, 03:36 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 05:41 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Correct me if I am wrong.

The police said there were no injuries other than the smothering.
The neighbor said his friend or neighbor cleaned up the house and there
was blood all over.
Whose blood? And how did it get all over if Lisa and Johnny didnt have
any on them?

I'm catching up so forgive me if this has been answered- I thought maybe the 2 steak knives that were taken into evidence may hold the answer to this....? Maybe Johnny got some good licks in or something before he was subdued by the attacker(s)?
I've seen some REALLY bloody noses in the E.R. after drunken bar fights....even a simple punch to a nose or anywhere on the head can cause a lot of blood...

Maybe the knives were used to rip the tape.

(02-23-2011, 03:50 PM)EastCoastKat Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 03:27 PM)trixie Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 03:25 PM)EastCoastKat Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 03:21 PM)Adub Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 03:18 PM)EastCoastKat Wrote: Duchess I have a picture of Tiffany that proves she knew at least 2 of these guys at the party with Lisa can I post it here?

I tried to slip the J guys last name past LC last night. But evidently she caught me

Yeah she got me too, and now it's not only 1 guy but 2, J and C.

And TS, he is in the pic with J. He isn't friends with TW, but he is friends with a couple other people that have been talked about.

Yep so that makes it 3, and I think maybe TS was the original connection.

J is friends with Tiffany and Lisa Straub....things that make you go hmmmmm.

(02-23-2011, 11:24 AM)Wish.I.was.a.P.I Wrote: So, these Interband pants got me thinking....this is Ohio...who calls them Interband? Why not Yoga pants? I never even heard the two toned colors being called Interband before and I'm quite the clothes whore. So, I did a little more research because I thought that word "Interband" was too complicated for just two different color yoga pants.

There is a store called "Interband" out of Largo, Florida. It is a leather apparel store. Could it be that they are Interband pants because the tag on them says "Interband" and she ordered/bought them from an Interband store?? AND, didn't somone say that those vacation pictures were from Florida?

Just throwing that out there.

Brilliant thinking! I wondered why they would call them that...made no sense. NOW it does.

(02-23-2011, 03:39 PM)cjcisneros Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 03:33 PM)sharit Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 01:39 PM)Spalding Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 01:35 PM)broke331 Wrote: And as far as punch holes in the walls,who in the hell would put a safe in the wall, drywall over it. How would they get to it.

Good point. Why also would anybody keep $100k in cash at their house?

my good friends mother in law passed away and when they went to clean out her apartment they found 90,000 in cash in her closet. they also found a hand gun under her mattress. she was in her 80s. her family was shocked. pleasantly shocked.

alot of people lost trust in banks when all this recession stuff came about !

Mine was a rhetorical question. We all know there are people on the fringes who will do almost anything you can think of, like keeping massive amounts of cash in their home.

(02-22-2011, 10:20 PM)lawheeze Wrote: I don't understand why some believe there wasn't always an intent to kill? Would a gang home invasion of people that know each other just end up with a couple tied up, able to talk? I think there's no way they would leave anyone alive to testify. I think the moment the perps put their plan into action, death was their intended outcome for the victims.

And I also don't get the idea that if one believes Tiff is involved that she somehow missed an opportunity to save JC & LS. If she was in on it, saving them from dying would be a betrayal of the gang and she would be the next target. She would not be "riding hard" for her gang friends if she aligned herself with the victims.

I don't think there are reluctant participants here. I think Tiff was either in it all the way or completely uninvolved.

I TOTALLY agree with this....in my mind, there was defint. INTENT to kill!

(02-23-2011, 03:05 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 02:54 PM)DickTracy Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 02:29 PM)EastCoastKat Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 02:26 PM)DickTracy Wrote: Correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe this guy was in pics with Tiff.

I thought the same thing! And the minor was in that picture too!

I am wondering if some of these pics were taken inside Lisa's parents house. The stairs by the front door makes me wonder. (referring back to what tw said about the stairs is right there when you walk in)

It's the cottage.

I think under one of the captions it says they were at a cottage, makes sense with the boat pictures. In the same album another caption says they moved the party back to Toledo

(02-23-2011, 03:58 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 10:20 PM)lawheeze Wrote: I don't understand why some believe there wasn't always an intent to kill? Would a gang home invasion of people that know each other just end up with a couple tied up, able to talk? I think there's no way they would leave anyone alive to testify. I think the moment the perps put their plan into action, death was their intended outcome for the victims.

And I also don't get the idea that if one believes Tiff is involved that she somehow missed an opportunity to save JC & LS. If she was in on it, saving them from dying would be a betrayal of the gang and she would be the next target. She would not be "riding hard" for her gang friends if she aligned herself with the victims.

I don't think there are reluctant participants here. I think Tiff was either in it all the way or completely uninvolved.

I TOTALLY agree with this....in my mind, there was defint. INTENT to kill!

Most with an intent to kill don't usually use plastic bags and duct tape, except maybe the wandering serial killer, they know they are going to kill and bring something that will do the job. I think they brought duct tape to restrain and then it went overboard, and a brand new sociopathic psycho was born. JMO

Comment ------ It has been said that Johnny did not like his mother,
and did not get along with her. Then why does she say he calls
her all the time? Anyway....I think Maytee was probably quite pissed
that Johnny was living better than she was. Jealousy. Maytee has
seen people use the keys on numerous occasions. Does that intimate
that she could have stalked the place?

Alternative Theory -------

OK. Now, what if the Straubs had their locks changed or something
in the way of security done and she saw the truck in the driveway? Or
say there is a pool supply person (obviously) and a yardman and
any number of people who knew a bit about the Straubs.

John or Maytee could cozy up to one of them, hear that there is
a stash in there by some goon braggart who is just mouthing off
because he has had a few too many. I know I have heard people'say
"They have a full bar in their basement, three of each and cases
of wine." about a friend and it was true. But it might not have been
true either.

So some jerkoff says "Yeah, they got big time money stashed there
I bet. He bought a fireproof safe." Well, what if it happens to
have been a gun safe? I have one. It is fireproof.

Long story short.........Maytee and John decide to have some of
their gangsta friends get the goodies. It goes bad. John's friends
call him and tell him and he starts to panic that Johnny might have
been there.

That would account for the excessive amount of info that Maytee
told the 911 dispatcher, her use of the word 'safe' and John's
thread to 'get them.'

Too far fetched?

Now, does anyone know if the Straub's bought their cruise tickets
or won them? If they won them, they somebody wanted them out
of town.

(02-23-2011, 04:03 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Comment ------ It has been said that Johnny did not like his mother,
and did not get along with her. Then why does she say he calls
her all the time? Anyway....I think Maytee was probably quite pissed
that Johnny was living better than she was. Jealousy. Maytee has
seen people use the keys on numerous occasions. Does that intimate
that she could have stalked the place?

Alternative Theory -------

OK. Now, what if the Straubs had their locks changed or something
in the way of security done and she saw the truck in the driveway? Or
say there is a pool supply person (obviously) and a yardman and
any number of people who knew a bit about the Straubs.

John or Maytee could cozy up to one of them, hear that there is
a stash in there by some goon braggart who is just mouthing off
because he has had a few too many. I know I have heard people'say
"They have a full bar in their basement, three of each and cases
of wine." about a friend and it was true. But it might not have been
true either.

So some jerkoff says "Yeah, they got big time money stashed there
I bet. He bought a fireproof safe." Well, what if it happens to
have been a gun safe? I have one. It is fireproof.

Long story short.........Maytee and John decide to have some of
their gangsta friends get the goodies. It goes bad. John's friends
call him and tell him and he starts to panic that Johnny might have
been there.

That would account for the excessive amount of info that Maytee
told the 911 dispatcher, her use of the word 'safe' and John's
thread to 'get them.'

Too far fetched?

What if Johnny's best friend has a brother that works for UPS?

(02-23-2011, 12:00 AM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 11:58 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: Just a thought, the puppy could have easily torn up the bags into pieces.


Lassie? Rin Tin Tin? to the rescue!

Anybody know the dog's name and if he has a facebook page?

lmfao!