(03-02-2011, 12:40 PM)rotten_cotton Wrote: holy shit freshbait, which bar was that?

Why were you one of the gunmen? LOL j/k If you are LC has your IP addy if anything happens to me LOL It was at Parkway.

(03-02-2011, 12:36 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

(03-02-2011, 12:23 PM)curious Wrote:

(03-02-2011, 12:19 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

(03-02-2011, 12:15 PM)Jane Wrote: I think the perps were in the house 30 minutes or less. I think they were long gone, by the time Tiffany got there. I think the lights Tiffany saw, were the same lights LE saw, when they got there.

I'll just repost my main point: As I said, that's a really risky chance for someone to take if they don't know who's on the phone & heard the confrontation & a big assumption that that person wouldn't come over or summon authorities. IMO

Would you come forward knowing the possible reprecutions?

Absolutely!!! I was taught to stand up for what is right. This is off topic but last summer I met a friend at a bar in Maumee for drinks after work & a large group of people from the southend showed up there & I knew that there would be trouble. Without fail, when the group was getting ready to leave a fight broke out between some girls which was taken outside at which point someone started shooting a gun. I told the bartender to call the police & they just stood there looking stupid so when they didn't act I DID & everyone was yelling NO at me LOL The cops came but everyone had already taken off, the cops found 20 shell casings in the parking lot. Those assholes fired off atleast 20 rounds into a group of people!!!! I was banned from the bar by the bouncer for calling the police LOL

Moral of the story, I don't like living amongst animals, gutter trash & murderers. There should be more people who "snitch" then maybe people would start thinking twice about what they do. As it is now there are too many people who live in fear of the thugs & I won't be one. There's a saying that goes something like, "If you don't stand for something, you stand for nothing"

Ditto! I have stepped into situations with complete strangers on the streets of Chicago and NYC to do the right thing, my sister even said she doesn't know how I haven't been murdered after seeing me do this a couple of time....but I say how can you not?? That's my question! I don't even think about it, I react, because I was taught to, I come from a long line of survivors that were oppressed, enslaved, starved and murdered in masses and both of my parents were never "bystanders' ever, you learn from example, I guess..

(03-02-2011, 12:43 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

(03-02-2011, 12:40 PM)rotten_cotton Wrote: holy shit freshbait, which bar was that?

Why were you one of the gunmen? LOL j/k If you are LC has your IP addy if anything happens to me LOL It was at Parkway.

nope, not me. i just live in maumee and was curious. doesn't surprise me though that it was @ parkway. i would have freaked if it was one of the uptown bars!!

(03-02-2011, 12:13 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote: I was asking about why these perps who some think are professional would assume he was on the phone with someone trying to make a drug deal who they felt confident wouldn't call the police. I've heard every excuse known to man about why Tiffany didn't summon help for 2 hours LOL I'm asking about the people who actually committed the murders.

Like I said, I don't think the perps cared who was on the phone. They had a job to do, & they got in there & did it. Their main focus was to kill Johnny & Lisa. I think part of their focus was to terrorize Johnny, too, before his death. I'm also leaning toward a gun being used to subdue them, now. Would be the fastest way to do it. One perp checked out the security system, while the other may have been doing things to Lisa, to torment Johnny. Put plastic bags over there heads, run around, tear up the house for a few minutes, while JC & LS were suffocating. Lock the door & leave. Job done.

(03-02-2011, 12:46 PM)rotten_cotton Wrote:

(03-02-2011, 12:43 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

(03-02-2011, 12:40 PM)rotten_cotton Wrote: holy shit freshbait, which bar was that?

Why were you one of the gunmen? LOL j/k If you are LC has your IP addy if anything happens to me LOL It was at Parkway.

nope, not me. i just live in maumee and was curious. doesn't surprise me though that it was @ parkway. i would have freaked if it was one of the uptown bars!!

The uptown bars are next LOL just wait & see. They move in slowely but they move in

(03-02-2011, 12:47 PM)Jane Wrote:

(03-02-2011, 12:13 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote: I was asking about why these perps who some think are professional would assume he was on the phone with someone trying to make a drug deal who they felt confident wouldn't call the police. I've heard every excuse known to man about why Tiffany didn't summon help for 2 hours LOL I'm asking about the people who actually committed the murders.

Like I said, I don't think the perps cared who was on the phone. They had a job to do, & they got in there & did it. Their main focus was to kill Johnny & Lisa. I think part of their focus was to terrorize Johnny, too, before his death. I'm also leaning toward a gun being used to subdue them, now. Would be the fastest way to do it. One perp checked out the security system, while the other may have been doing things to Lisa, to torment Johnny. Put plastic bags over there heads, run around, tear up the house for a few minutes, while JC & LS were suffocating. Lock the door & leave. Job done.

I believe they had a gun too, to subdue. Probably didn't even have to hit anyone, just pointing it at someone and especially if it was at Lisa, that can cause biggest of guys to comply.

Let me add, IMO the method used to carry out the murders fits perfectly with the scenario of the "if you fuck with me, this is what happens". Toledo is no different from any other large metropolitan area where drug trafficking/selling is on the rise, and with that comes the middle-men involved getting fronts from the dealers promising a return buy not following through. So with that you get more and more bizzare methods of payback in an attempt to sendthe ultimate message, 'you play, you pay'...simple law of supply and demand.

(03-02-2011, 12:46 PM)rotten_cotton Wrote:

(03-02-2011, 12:43 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

(03-02-2011, 12:40 PM)rotten_cotton Wrote: holy shit freshbait, which bar was that?

Why were you one of the gunmen? LOL j/k If you are LC has your IP addy if anything happens to me LOL It was at Parkway.

nope, not me. i just live in maumee and was curious. doesn't surprise me though that it was @ parkway. i would have freaked if it was one of the uptown bars!!

Yeah parkway can be rough lol

(03-02-2011, 12:01 PM)IMaDick Wrote: Just a simple thought concerning welfare checks that are routinely done by LE, a welfare check requires the officer to see,talk, or otherwise confirm the welfare of the person whom the welfare check is being perfromed for.

LE dropped the ball here.

a drive by of the residence is not a welfare check.

a knock on the door with no answer is not a welfare check, it's easy to hear in the 911 calls that the operator did not take the mother seriously.

I would like to hear the responding officers radio traffic for this welfare check?

fifty one fifty

i totally have to disagree with you here on this one. I can only say from my experience in Lucas County...and I've had about 13 years of it... if the five.oh get a call requesting a "welfare check" or a "site and safety check"...in this county, they will not kick in doors, crawl through windows, etc unless they have PROBABLE CAUSE. If they go to a door, knock, see lights on, etc. and nobody answers, but they see nothing that is odd/out of the ordinary/awry then that ends the welfare check. Even if they know somebody is home they can't do anything about it. You dont' have to answer the door to the police if you don't want to and there's nothing they can do. Now...from what I've heard (again, not the LCSO, but TPD) when the police got there nothing looked awry from the outside. They can get 10 Maytee type calls about a situation, but if when the police arrive and they see nothing, there is nothing they can do. And if memory serves me right...at one point the LCSO deputy sat outside of the house for what 20-30 mins and didn't see any activity. and like I said.... there is nothing they can do. There's conflicting reports about who's car was where....and I would think that they would run plates on a car that was sitting in the driveway. and if it was Lisa's car, then it was probably registered to that address or something. so it wouldn't have been odd. From what I've heard there were no "red flags" whent he police got the house.

(03-02-2011, 12:47 PM)Jane Wrote:

(03-02-2011, 12:13 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote: I was asking about why these perps who some think are professional would assume he was on the phone with someone trying to make a drug deal who they felt confident wouldn't call the police. I've heard every excuse known to man about why Tiffany didn't summon help for 2 hours LOL I'm asking about the people who actually committed the murders.

Like I said, I don't think the perps cared who was on the phone. They had a job to do, & they got in there & did it. Their main focus was to kill Johnny & Lisa. I think part of their focus was to terrorize Johnny, too, before his death. I'm also leaning toward a gun being used to subdue them, now. Would be the fastest way to do it. One perp checked out the security system, while the other may have been doing things to Lisa, to torment Johnny. Put plastic bags over there heads, run around, tear up the house for a few minutes, while JC & LS were suffocating. Lock the door & leave. Job done.

You said 30 minutes or less.... If Johnny would have been talking to his Grandma, that would have given the police 10 minutes or so to go over there & interrupt. That is my point. Forget Tiffany being on the phone for a minute. If Tiffany isn't involved, if Tiffany doesn't know these people & they don't know her.... They, the perps, did not know who he was on the phone with or how much time they had to do all they did PLUS lock the freakin door on the way out. If your commiting a robbery & murder to this extent your ass better be concerned with any possible witnesses or being caught in the act. These people don't seem to have been concerned. With that I'm done with this subject LOL I feel like I'm just repeating the same shit over & over but re-wording it differently. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree

(03-02-2011, 12:50 PM)EastCoastKat Wrote: I believe they had a gun too, to subdue. Probably didn't even have to hit anyone, just pointing it at someone and especially if it was at Lisa, that can cause biggest of guys to comply.

Exactly, Kat!

(03-02-2011, 12:55 PM)blueyes Wrote:

(03-02-2011, 12:46 PM)rotten_cotton Wrote:

(03-02-2011, 12:43 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

(03-02-2011, 12:40 PM)rotten_cotton Wrote: holy shit freshbait, which bar was that?

Why were you one of the gunmen? LOL j/k If you are LC has your IP addy if anything happens to me LOL It was at Parkway.

nope, not me. i just live in maumee and was curious. doesn't surprise me though that it was @ parkway. i would have freaked if it was one of the uptown bars!!

Yeah parkway can be rough lol

OMG! I love parkway.... it's my random corner bar!

. Someone probably needed to make some quick cash, no doubt they're all on craigslist now!
[/quote]

This is exactly why my family and extended family will not buy from
Craigs List. One member had a home invasion and every piece of
electronics and games were taken - had to be planned when they
were known to be on the road taking children to or from events. The
police said, "The items are probably on Craigs List by now."

Would you come forward knowing the possible reprecutions?
[/quote]

Absolutely!!! I was taught to stand up for what is right. This is off topic but last summer I met a friend at a bar in Maumee for drinks after work & a large group of people from the southend showed up there & I knew that there would be trouble. Without fail, when the group was getting ready to leave a fight broke out between some girls which was taken outside at which point someone started shooting a gun. I told the bartender to call the police & they just stood there looking stupid so when they didn't act I DID & everyone was yelling NO at me LOL The cops came but everyone had already taken off, the cops found 20 shell casings in the parking lot. Those assholes fired off atleast 20 rounds into a group of people!!!! I was banned from the bar by the bouncer for calling the police LOL

Moral of the story, I don't like living amongst animals, gutter trash & murderers. There should be more people who "snitch" then maybe people would start thinking twice about what they do. As it is now there are too many people who live in fear of the thugs & I won't be one. There's a saying that goes something like, "If you don't stand for something, you stand for nothing"

[/quote]

Ditto! I have stepped into situations with complete strangers on the streets of Chicago and NYC to do the right thing, my sister even said she doesn't know how I haven't been murdered after seeing me do this a couple of time....but I say how can you not?? That's my question! I don't even think about it, I react, because I was taught to, I come from a long line of survivors that were oppressed, enslaved, starved and murdered in masses and both of my parents were never "bystanders' ever, you learn from example, I guess..

[/quote]

BIG, BIG, HUGE difference...these people voluntarily put themselves in this position knowing the consequences at hand

(03-02-2011, 12:55 PM)blueyes Wrote:

(03-02-2011, 12:46 PM)rotten_cotton Wrote:

(03-02-2011, 12:43 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

(03-02-2011, 12:40 PM)rotten_cotton Wrote: holy shit freshbait, which bar was that?

Why were you one of the gunmen? LOL j/k If you are LC has your IP addy if anything happens to me LOL It was at Parkway.

nope, not me. i just live in maumee and was curious. doesn't surprise me though that it was @ parkway. i would have freaked if it was one of the uptown bars!!

Yeah parkway can be rough lol

Yeah I found that out the hard way & won't be back, well even if I wasn't banned I wouldn't go back lol I had been there a couple times before but it was earlier in the evening & there were older regulars *think Cheers* so I didn't know it got rough. Bogarts I would expect gunfights at the saloon, not a bar in Maumee

(03-02-2011, 12:21 PM)curious Wrote: I highly doubt TW, or anyone for that matter would snitch them out

Guaranteed she wouldn't snitch, and her bf AP has a whopping great 'stop snitching' tattoo up his arm to say so.

(03-02-2011, 12:01 PM)IMaDick Wrote: Just a simple thought concerning welfare checks that are routinely done by LE, a welfare check requires the officer to see,talk, or otherwise confirm the welfare of the person whom the welfare check is being perfromed for.

LE dropped the ball here.

a drive by of the residence is not a welfare check.

a knock on the door with no answer is not a welfare check, it's easy to hear in the 911 calls that the operator did not take the mother seriously.

I would like to hear the responding officers radio traffic for this welfare check?

fifty one fifty

My parents always told the local police when they were going to be
out of town. They even did it when we were teens and were staying
in the house. The police would do extra drive bys and if we had unknown
cars in the yard, they would knock on our door and check on us. I thought
it was mean and nosy of our parents at the time, but now I think it was
a great idea - at the time I never thought it was maybe for our benefit too.

[/quote]

BIG, BIG, HUGE difference...these people voluntarily put themselves in this position knowing the consequences at hand


[/quote]

Who voluntarily put themselves in what position? Sorry not following you

(03-02-2011, 12:57 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote: You said 30 minutes or less.... If Johnny would have been talking to his Grandma, that would have given the police 10 minutes or so to go over there & interrupt. That is my point. Forget Tiffany being on the phone for a minute. If Tiffany isn't involved, if Tiffany doesn't know these people & they don't know her.... They, the perps, did not know who he was on the phone with or how much time they had to do all they did PLUS lock the freakin door on the way out. If your commiting a robbery & murder to this extent your ass better be concerned with any possible witnesses or being caught in the act. These people don't seem to have been concerned. With that I'm done with this subject LOL I feel like I'm just repeating the same shit over & over but re-wording it differently. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree

I agree. The perps didn't know who was on the phone. I don't care who he was on the phone with, be it Grandma or anyone else, I get the feeling Johnny didn't make it sound like a big deal, at first. I don't think Johnny would have immediately started screamin, "call 911 Granny!". Maybe Johnny was yelling, maybe he wasn't, but the tone he used would have been important, either way, & I just don't think his tone was that of "being in trouble" ... I think Johnny thought he could handle this situation, afterall he was a big tough drug dealer. He probably thought he could handle anything, with his gang ties, & I DO believe he had gang ties. That's just the way I see it, now. I'm only going with what LE released, & it sounds pretty cut & dry, IMO. Also, it doesn't take two seconds to lock a door, on the way out.

And yes, I have no problem with agreeing to disagree.

I'm sure TW was going over to buy drugs, and big tine dealers usually keep a close eye on who their "runners" sell too.
quote


I thought Johnny was asking Tiffany to get him some drugs and that is
why she was 'going to the store.'