(03-07-2011, 03:31 AM)AriGold Wrote: I don't think they parked a vehicle out front. Again, too risky. Too many variables (nosy neighbor or something). They could have parked elsewhere and walked there. I remember hearing there was a school behind the house somewhere. They could have parked there and walked over. If dressed in black, it'd be unlikely for anyone to notice them or hear any noise. The lot the house sits on is pretty big according to Google Maps.

Also, I don't think they came with the safe in mind. The "safe" might have been brought up by either JC or LS as a means of bargaining for the life.

All the same -- depending on how long the struggle (if any) lasted, they could have been in and out in 30 min max.

For example:

5 min struggle (and if you've ever been in a fight, you know 5 min is a LONG time; it feels like hours).

5 min to tie them up (if they came prepared with materials and with multiple people, this shouldn't even take that long)

10 minutes to search house (look for safe, disable security system, etc)

10 minutes to clean up and get the fuck out.

Keep in mind, it only takes about 6 minutes to die from lack of air.

That school is new in the last 5 or 10 years. I'm going to guess they have security cameras in the parking lot up the wazoo there. If you saw Straub's hood the houses 1^st thing you would notice is that the houses aren't that far apart. Also there is no sidewalks (I dont think) it's the kind of hood where people walk their dogs even that late at night (and pick up the "dirt" left from fido). People have big enough driveways that it is really rare for someone to park on the street. but it was really cold so I'm certain that limited the amount of people out and about. i agree this could be done in 30 min. I think the neck injuries show they were impatient, the bags were taking to long.

I think the injuries to their necks were from the duct tape wrapped tightly around the bags. As in extemely tight. Maybe even ended up being tied in a tight knot.

Omg. I've missed out on so much. I've been tying to keep up on my phone, but there were too many pages!! Damn vacation.

SNIPPED

(03-05-2011, 02:03 PM)EastCoastKat Wrote: Guess that'll teach me to go take a shit!

LMAO!!

(03-07-2011, 10:20 AM)trixie Wrote: Omg. I've missed out on so much. I've been tying to keep up on my phone, but there were too many pages!! Damn vacation.

welcome back! You haven't missed much. This article is about the only new info that I've seen.

From the Holland-Springfield Journal On-line News dated "week of March 1, 2011"

Double homicide wasn't a random robbery
Sheriff's office advises neighbors not to worry

Springfield Township residents fearful that the recent double homicide may mean danger for the neighbors should not worry.
"It wasn't random. It wasn't a robbery. It was professional," Lucas County Sheriff's Sergeant James Schiavone said.

The sergeant gave an update on the murder investigation to the Springfield Township Trustees as part of his monthly sheriff's report at the February 22 meeting.

Lisa Straub, 20, and Johnny S. Clarke, 21, were found executed January 31 in a home on Longacre Lane, where Ms. Straub lived with her parents Jeff and Mary Beth Straub. Ms. Straub and Mr. Clark were found around 4 a.m., by Mr. Clark's family members. The couple had been suffocated with plastic bags over their heads and their hands bound.

Sgt. Schiavone said he believes the drug-related crime was a professional "hit," instigated by actions of the victims. The crime was not a random neighborhood robbery and the sergeant believes the suspects are likely no longer in the area. "Nobody needs to be worried about that," he added.

The sheriff's office is investigating the crime with the assistance of the FBI and the state Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation (BCI). More than 100 people have been interviewed during the investigation, he said.

Ms. Straub and Mr. Clarke were discovered after his family had called 9-1-1 several times earlier that evening, concerned about their safety.

Thanks Jane! That's horrible. To me it sounds like they have no idea who did this.

(03-07-2011, 07:19 AM)Duchess Wrote:

Well...shit.

Why the hell am I under the impression the wires were cut? WTF

Unknown said they were cut

(03-07-2011, 10:39 AM)trixie Wrote: Thanks Jane! That's horrible. To me it sounds like they have no idea who did this.

Yeah, & now the billboards are up, asking for help. I'm not sure what to think anymore, as far as what LE knows, ugh!

And just how hard is LE going to look for the killers being that the victims instigated their own demise? Johnny is a two-time loser in LE's eyes: a robber who served time in prison (not jail) and a drug dealer while out on probation. You know they're gonna work overtime to solve that. And Lisa had a DUI so you can say too that she was a menace to other citizens. So...the killer(s) are probably in my neck of the woods now.

I'm beginning to see how all this works.

(03-07-2011, 10:39 AM)trixie Wrote: Thanks Jane! That's horrible. To me it sounds like they have no idea who did this.

I don't think they have any idea who did this either, Trix. If LE had a clue, they wouldn't need a billboard so large you can see it from the moon and in reading the news articles again last night, LE has changed their working thesis at least three times that I can see....yes it was a robbery gone bad. Oh no did we say robbery? We didn't mean it. We think it had something to do with whatever Johnny and Lisa did but hey Toledo, don't worry: the perps are long gone. Hell, they're in NC by now. All we want to do is feed at the public trough.

Hey can I get an oink outta that?

(03-07-2011, 10:43 AM)Jane Wrote: Yeah, & now the billboards are up, asking for help. I'm not sure what to think anymore, as far as what LE knows, ugh!

Yea I've seen those up. I just feel bad for the families. Regardless of how crazy maytee is, that's her son. I read on here that Lisa's parents are moving things out of their house? So sad, but understand. I wouldn't be able to live there and be reminded every second of my life of what happened. I hope this isn't the end of the case, and someone is punished for these crimes.

(03-07-2011, 09:45 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 06:55 AM)Duchess Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:55 AM)AriGold Wrote: Furthermore, they had an advanced security system in the house that would presumably dial 911 if smoke/fire was detected.

I've always found it very odd that the wires being cut did not immediately summon the police. It doesn't even make a little bit of sense to me. If that's truly the case then everyone who has that system installed in their homes should be made aware that it's utterly worthless, it won't protect anyone & here is your proof.

Exactly. I never saw the logic in that. Most alarm systems (including mine) require a separate phone line and connection that will dial out to emergency if anything goes wrong with it.

maybe their phone was bundled through the tv cable and the perps cut the phone line. or vice versa. maybe deactivated means not turned armed. if disarmed and noone hit the panic button then it would have done nothing. maybe the perps cut the cableline, and when they turned on the tv loud to drown out any noise they were without tv stations and had to put in a dvd to drown out the noise. hence the cops heard the tv on at 1am, but not on the second visit. and also why the cops took a single dvd from the house. who knows though. I'm just doing bullshit speculation. I'm sure people who know all the evidence are saying "wrong, wrong, wrong!" right now.

(03-07-2011, 10:44 AM)van64 Wrote: And just how hard is LE going to look for the killers being that the victims instigated their own demise? Johnny is a two-time loser in LE's eyes: a robber who served time in prison (not jail) and a drug dealer while out on probation. You know they're gonna work overtime to solve that. And Lisa had a DUI so you can say too that she was a menace to other citizens. So...the killer(s) are probably in my neck of the woods now.

I'm beginning to see how all this works.

Im thinking along the same lines you are Van! This just makes me sick tho! U can tell they werent on nothing hard (as far as drugs go) IF any! It sickens me to think the LE would look at these poor kids death this way! Not matter what THEY DIDNT DESERVE TO DIE! If it was a family member of LE reguardless if they were on drugs or not the whole damn dept. would be workin overtime! UGH! just pisses me off to NO end!

maybe their phone was bundled through the tv cable and the perps cut the phone line. or vice versa. maybe deactivated means not turned armed. if disarmed and noone hit the panic button then it would have done nothing. maybe the perps cut the cableline, and when they turned on the tv loud to drown out any noise they were without tv stations and had to put in a dvd to drown out the noise. hence the cops heard the tv on at 1am, but not on the second visit. and also why the cops took a single dvd from the house. who knows though. I'm just doing bullshit speculation. I'm sure people who know all the evidence are saying "wrong, wrong, wrong!" right now.
[/quote]At best, this board can act as criminal profilers and it seems every theory that can possibly be vetted, has been. We just don't have the facts LE has, nor should we. I'm sure they have something that points them in one direction as opposed to another. But I'm also equally as convinced that LE just simply doesn't have a clue based mainly on the fact that there wasn't much left behind that LE is able to immediately utilize. If you don't have the suspects on security videotape, that's a lucky break LE did not catch. If the suspect's DNA is not in the database, that another lucky break LE did not catch. There were no eyewitnesses to the crime; another lucky break unable to be caught.

So we have a billboard, a reward and LE in Toledo blaming the victims.

NO OFFENSE LC

(03-07-2011, 11:05 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:01 AM)notsure Wrote:

maybe their phone was bundled through the tv cable and the perps cut the phone line. or vice versa. maybe deactivated means not turned armed. if disarmed and noone hit the panic button then it would have done nothing. maybe the perps cut the cableline, and when they turned on the tv loud to drown out any noise they were without tv stations and had to put in a dvd to drown out the noise. hence the cops heard the tv on at 1am, but not on the second visit. and also why the cops took a single dvd from the house. who knows though. I'm just doing bullshit speculation. I'm sure people who know all the evidence are saying "wrong, wrong, wrong!" right now.

At best, this board can act as criminal profilers and it seems every theory that can possibly be vetted, has been. We just don't have the facts LE has, nor should we. I'm sure they have something that points them in one direction as opposed to another. But I'm also equally as convinced that LE just simply doesn't have a clue based mainly on the fact that there wasn't much left behind that LE is able to immediately utilize. If you don't have the suspects on security videotape, that's a lucky break LE did not catch. If the suspect's DNA is not in the database, that another lucky break LE did not catch. There were no eyewitnesses to the crime; another lucky break unable to be caught.

So we have a billboard, a reward and LE in Toledo blaming the victims.


[/quote]

what a DAMn combo that is! What a SHAME!

(03-07-2011, 11:02 AM)JsMom Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 10:44 AM)van64 Wrote: And just how hard is LE going to look for the killers being that the victims instigated their own demise? Johnny is a two-time loser in LE's eyes: a robber who served time in prison (not jail) and a drug dealer while out on probation. You know they're gonna work overtime to solve that. And Lisa had a DUI so you can say too that she was a menace to other citizens. So...the killer(s) are probably in my neck of the woods now.

I'm beginning to see how all this works.

Im thinking along the same lines you are Van! This just makes me sick tho! U can tell they werent on nothing hard (as far as drugs go) IF any! It sickens me to think the LE would look at these poor kids death this way! Not matter what THEY DIDNT DESERVE TO DIE! If it was a family member of LE reguardless if they were on drugs or not the whole damn dept. would be workin overtime! UGH! just pisses me off to NO end!

Unfortunately, I don't think this LE's modus operandi was invented in Toledo. I have read hundreds of articles and having worked for decades in the employ of the public and being relatively sheltered from the vicissitudes of the real world, it took awhile for this to sink in on me but one common theme, over and over and over again, is that in these cases that LE refuses to take seriously or are never solved, there is a blame the victim mentality stemming from criminal backgrounds that the victims had.

Locally, we had an individual who preyed on prostitutes. Now, I personally think prostitution should be legal but it isn't, of course, and LE here dragged their feet and did nothing until a woman was almost killed and there is speculation that the perp was involved in the death of a couple other innocent women. There were also other prostitutes who were victimized by the perp. They finally caught the guy but in reading articles about the case, you didn't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that the backgrounds of these 'shady ladies' inhibited and hampered the police investigation. And women were being raped, robbed and beaten. The public must realize that if nothing else, a perp who will do something like that is only half a stone's throw from crossing the line and harming a model citizen, if that is what it takes to get LE away from the public trough long enough to do something.

Yes, it is frustrating. That's the last time I'm having a Mtn. Dew and a Snicker's candy bar at 5 a.m. in the morning.

(03-07-2011, 10:07 AM)Jane Wrote: I think the injuries to their necks were from the duct tape wrapped tightly around the bags. As in extemely tight. Maybe even ended up being tied in a tight knot.

I would love to see someone tie duct tape in a knot.

Is that even possible?

(03-07-2011, 11:08 AM)JsMom Wrote: NO OFFENSE LC

None taken. She knows how the system works.

(03-07-2011, 11:11 AM)JsMom Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:05 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:01 AM)notsure Wrote:

maybe their phone was bundled through the tv cable and the perps cut the phone line. or vice versa. maybe deactivated means not turned armed. if disarmed and noone hit the panic button then it would have done nothing. maybe the perps cut the cableline, and when they turned on the tv loud to drown out any noise they were without tv stations and had to put in a dvd to drown out the noise. hence the cops heard the tv on at 1am, but not on the second visit. and also why the cops took a single dvd from the house. who knows though. I'm just doing bullshit speculation. I'm sure people who know all the evidence are saying "wrong, wrong, wrong!" right now.

At best, this board can act as criminal profilers and it seems every theory that can possibly be vetted, has been. We just don't have the facts LE has, nor should we. I'm sure they have something that points them in one direction as opposed to another. But I'm also equally as convinced that LE just simply doesn't have a clue based mainly on the fact that there wasn't much left behind that LE is able to immediately utilize. If you don't have the suspects on security videotape, that's a lucky break LE did not catch. If the suspect's DNA is not in the database, that another lucky break LE did not catch. There were no eyewitnesses to the crime; another lucky break unable to be caught.

So we have a billboard, a reward and LE in Toledo blaming the victims.

what a DAMn combo that is! What a SHAME!
[/quote]

Can you say cold case?