(03-07-2011, 11:12 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 10:07 AM)Jane Wrote: I think the injuries to their necks were from the duct tape wrapped tightly around the bags. As in extemely tight. Maybe even ended up being tied in a tight knot.

I would love to see someone tie duct tape in a knot.

Is that even possible?

After a Mtn. Dew and a Snicker's candy bar, I believe it is possible.

And Lisa had a DUI so you can say too that she was a menace to other citizens.
[/quote]

A menace? Seriously?

Unless she was habitually driving drunk, that's probably a bit of an overstatement.

(03-07-2011, 10:48 AM)van64 Wrote: I don't think they have any idea who did this either, Trix. If LE had a clue, they wouldn't need a billboard so large you can see it from the moon and in reading the news articles again last night, LE has changed their working thesis at least three times that I can see....yes it was a robbery gone bad. Oh no did we say robbery? We didn't mean it. We think it had something to do with whatever Johnny and Lisa did but hey Toledo, don't worry: the perps are long gone. Hell, they're in NC by now. All we want to do is feed at the public trough.

Hey can I get an oink outta that?

You've listed two theories by LE, neither of which are mutually exclusive. What is the third?

(03-07-2011, 11:12 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:02 AM)JsMom Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 10:44 AM)van64 Wrote: And just how hard is LE going to look for the killers being that the victims instigated their own demise? Johnny is a two-time loser in LE's eyes: a robber who served time in prison (not jail) and a drug dealer while out on probation. You know they're gonna work overtime to solve that. And Lisa had a DUI so you can say too that she was a menace to other citizens. So...the killer(s) are probably in my neck of the woods now.

I'm beginning to see how all this works.

Im thinking along the same lines you are Van! This just makes me sick tho! U can tell they werent on nothing hard (as far as drugs go) IF any! It sickens me to think the LE would look at these poor kids death this way! Not matter what THEY DIDNT DESERVE TO DIE! If it was a family member of LE reguardless if they were on drugs or not the whole damn dept. would be workin overtime! UGH! just pisses me off to NO end!

Unfortunately, I don't think this LE's modus operandi was invented in Toledo. I have read hundreds of articles and having worked for decades in the employ of the public and being relatively sheltered from the vicissitudes of the real world, it took awhile for this to sink in on me but one common theme, over and over and over again, is that in these cases that LE refuses to take seriously or are never solved, there is a blame the victim mentality stemming from criminal backgrounds that the victims had.

Locally, we had an individual who preyed on prostitutes. Now, I personally think prostitution should be legal but it isn't, of course, and LE here dragged their feet and did nothing until a woman was almost killed and there is speculation that the perp was involved in the death of a couple other innocent women. There were also other prostitutes who were victimized by the perp. They finally caught the guy but in reading articles about the case, you didn't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that the backgrounds of these 'shady ladies' inhibited and hampered the police investigation. And women were being raped, robbed and beaten. The public must realize that if nothing else, a perp who will do something like that is only half a stone's throw from crossing the line and harming a model citizen, if that is what it takes to get LE away from the public trough long enough to do something.

Yes, it is frustrating. That's the last time I'm having a Mtn. Dew and a Snicker's candy bar at 5 a.m. in the morning.

We Are Supposed to all be treated EQUAL no matter our problems (mentally ill, druggie, prostitute, etc etc.) are! Pretty sad that our country is goin to shit as far as SOME Le goes! PITIFUL! I mean come one now no matter what they were handsome & beautiful, in school for something (better then some can say) clean cut, LOVED by lots! Im just in shock! terribly!

(03-07-2011, 11:13 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:11 AM)JsMom Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:05 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:01 AM)notsure Wrote:

maybe their phone was bundled through the tv cable and the perps cut the phone line. or vice versa. maybe deactivated means not turned armed. if disarmed and noone hit the panic button then it would have done nothing. maybe the perps cut the cableline, and when they turned on the tv loud to drown out any noise they were without tv stations and had to put in a dvd to drown out the noise. hence the cops heard the tv on at 1am, but not on the second visit. and also why the cops took a single dvd from the house. who knows though. I'm just doing bullshit speculation. I'm sure people who know all the evidence are saying "wrong, wrong, wrong!" right now.

At best, this board can act as criminal profilers and it seems every theory that can possibly be vetted, has been. We just don't have the facts LE has, nor should we. I'm sure they have something that points them in one direction as opposed to another. But I'm also equally as convinced that LE just simply doesn't have a clue based mainly on the fact that there wasn't much left behind that LE is able to immediately utilize. If you don't have the suspects on security videotape, that's a lucky break LE did not catch. If the suspect's DNA is not in the database, that another lucky break LE did not catch. There were no eyewitnesses to the crime; another lucky break unable to be caught.

So we have a billboard, a reward and LE in Toledo blaming the victims.

what a DAMn combo that is! What a SHAME!

Can you say cold case?
[/quote]

Lord I HOPE not! I dont even wanna think that way!

(03-07-2011, 10:07 AM)Jane Wrote: I think the injuries to their necks were from the duct tape wrapped tightly around the bags. As in extemely tight. Maybe even ended up being tied in a tight knot.

My understanding from the family is that the injuries to the neck were most likely the result of very tight tape around the neck and the thrashing about of the victim while they were putting the tape on.

(03-07-2011, 11:16 AM)AriGold Wrote: And Lisa had a DUI so you can say too that she was a menace to other citizens.

A menace? Seriously?

Unless she was habitually driving drunk, that's probably a bit of an overstatement.


[/quote]In LE's eyes I'm sure she was a menacing nuisance. I'm just making a point about why LE may be reluctant to aggressively follow up on this case.

(03-07-2011, 11:16 AM)AriGold Wrote: And Lisa had a DUI so you can say too that she was a menace to other citizens.

A menace? Seriously?

Unless she was habitually driving drunk, that's probably a bit of an overstatement.


[/quote]

He was saying thats how the cops think!

(03-07-2011, 11:01 AM)notsure Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 09:45 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 06:55 AM)Duchess Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:55 AM)AriGold Wrote: Furthermore, they had an advanced security system in the house that would presumably dial 911 if smoke/fire was detected.

I've always found it very odd that the wires being cut did not immediately summon the police. It doesn't even make a little bit of sense to me. If that's truly the case then everyone who has that system installed in their homes should be made aware that it's utterly worthless, it won't protect anyone & here is your proof.

Exactly. I never saw the logic in that. Most alarm systems (including mine) require a separate phone line and connection that will dial out to emergency if anything goes wrong with it.

maybe their phone was bundled through the tv cable and the perps cut the phone line. or vice versa. maybe deactivated means not turned armed. if disarmed and noone hit the panic button then it would have done nothing. maybe the perps cut the cableline, and when they turned on the tv loud to drown out any noise they were without tv stations and had to put in a dvd to drown out the noise. hence the cops heard the tv on at 1am, but not on the second visit. and also why the cops took a single dvd from the house. who knows though. I'm just doing bullshit speculation. I'm sure people who know all the evidence are saying "wrong, wrong, wrong!" right now.

I'm not sure who their alarm company is but the reason I referenced mine earlier is because they SPECIFICALLY require (in addition to what ever other lines you have) a SEPARATE regular old land line. No VoIP or bundled lines from the cable company as they usually depend on power and internet connection.
*shrugs*
It's all speculation at this point.

(03-07-2011, 11:17 AM)esbee Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 10:48 AM)van64 Wrote: I don't think they have any idea who did this either, Trix. If LE had a clue, they wouldn't need a billboard so large you can see it from the moon and in reading the news articles again last night, LE has changed their working thesis at least three times that I can see....yes it was a robbery gone bad. Oh no did we say robbery? We didn't mean it. We think it had something to do with whatever Johnny and Lisa did but hey Toledo, don't worry: the perps are long gone. Hell, they're in NC by now. All we want to do is feed at the public trough.

Hey can I get an oink outta that?

You've listed two theories by LE, neither of which are mutually exclusive. What is the third?

That the killer(s) are out of town and LE doesn't need to worry about it.

(03-07-2011, 11:18 AM)JsMom Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:12 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:02 AM)JsMom Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 10:44 AM)van64 Wrote: And just how hard is LE going to look for the killers being that the victims instigated their own demise? Johnny is a two-time loser in LE's eyes: a robber who served time in prison (not jail) and a drug dealer while out on probation. You know they're gonna work overtime to solve that. And Lisa had a DUI so you can say too that she was a menace to other citizens. So...the killer(s) are probably in my neck of the woods now.

I'm beginning to see how all this works.

Im thinking along the same lines you are Van! This just makes me sick tho! U can tell they werent on nothing hard (as far as drugs go) IF any! It sickens me to think the LE would look at these poor kids death this way! Not matter what THEY DIDNT DESERVE TO DIE! If it was a family member of LE reguardless if they were on drugs or not the whole damn dept. would be workin overtime! UGH! just pisses me off to NO end!

Unfortunately, I don't think this LE's modus operandi was invented in Toledo. I have read hundreds of articles and having worked for decades in the employ of the public and being relatively sheltered from the vicissitudes of the real world, it took awhile for this to sink in on me but one common theme, over and over and over again, is that in these cases that LE refuses to take seriously or are never solved, there is a blame the victim mentality stemming from criminal backgrounds that the victims had.

Locally, we had an individual who preyed on prostitutes. Now, I personally think prostitution should be legal but it isn't, of course, and LE here dragged their feet and did nothing until a woman was almost killed and there is speculation that the perp was involved in the death of a couple other innocent women. There were also other prostitutes who were victimized by the perp. They finally caught the guy but in reading articles about the case, you didn't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that the backgrounds of these 'shady ladies' inhibited and hampered the police investigation. And women were being raped, robbed and beaten. The public must realize that if nothing else, a perp who will do something like that is only half a stone's throw from crossing the line and harming a model citizen, if that is what it takes to get LE away from the public trough long enough to do something.

Yes, it is frustrating. That's the last time I'm having a Mtn. Dew and a Snicker's candy bar at 5 a.m. in the morning.

We Are Supposed to all be treated EQUAL no matter our problems (mentally ill, druggie, prostitute, etc etc.) are! Pretty sad that our country is goin to shit as far as SOME Le goes! PITIFUL! I mean come one now no matter what they were handsome & beautiful, in school for something (better then some can say) clean cut, LOVED by lots! Im just in shock! terribly!

I know. I've often thought what a curse it would have been to have been born a pretty girl.

(03-07-2011, 11:23 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:18 AM)JsMom Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:12 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:02 AM)JsMom Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 10:44 AM)van64 Wrote: And just how hard is LE going to look for the killers being that the victims instigated their own demise? Johnny is a two-time loser in LE's eyes: a robber who served time in prison (not jail) and a drug dealer while out on probation. You know they're gonna work overtime to solve that. And Lisa had a DUI so you can say too that she was a menace to other citizens. So...the killer(s) are probably in my neck of the woods now.

I'm beginning to see how all this works.

Im thinking along the same lines you are Van! This just makes me sick tho! U can tell they werent on nothing hard (as far as drugs go) IF any! It sickens me to think the LE would look at these poor kids death this way! Not matter what THEY DIDNT DESERVE TO DIE! If it was a family member of LE reguardless if they were on drugs or not the whole damn dept. would be workin overtime! UGH! just pisses me off to NO end!

Unfortunately, I don't think this LE's modus operandi was invented in Toledo. I have read hundreds of articles and having worked for decades in the employ of the public and being relatively sheltered from the vicissitudes of the real world, it took awhile for this to sink in on me but one common theme, over and over and over again, is that in these cases that LE refuses to take seriously or are never solved, there is a blame the victim mentality stemming from criminal backgrounds that the victims had.

Locally, we had an individual who preyed on prostitutes. Now, I personally think prostitution should be legal but it isn't, of course, and LE here dragged their feet and did nothing until a woman was almost killed and there is speculation that the perp was involved in the death of a couple other innocent women. There were also other prostitutes who were victimized by the perp. They finally caught the guy but in reading articles about the case, you didn't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that the backgrounds of these 'shady ladies' inhibited and hampered the police investigation. And women were being raped, robbed and beaten. The public must realize that if nothing else, a perp who will do something like that is only half a stone's throw from crossing the line and harming a model citizen, if that is what it takes to get LE away from the public trough long enough to do something.

Yes, it is frustrating. That's the last time I'm having a Mtn. Dew and a Snicker's candy bar at 5 a.m. in the morning.

We Are Supposed to all be treated EQUAL no matter our problems (mentally ill, druggie, prostitute, etc etc.) are! Pretty sad that our country is goin to shit as far as SOME Le goes! PITIFUL! I mean come one now no matter what they were handsome & beautiful, in school for something (better then some can say) clean cut, LOVED by lots! Im just in shock! terribly!

I know. I've often thought what a curse it would have been to have been born a pretty girl.

Scary thats for sure! Even if u stay STRAPPED!

(03-07-2011, 11:17 AM)esbee Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 10:48 AM)van64 Wrote: I don't think they have any idea who did this either, Trix. If LE had a clue, they wouldn't need a billboard so large you can see it from the moon and in reading the news articles again last night, LE has changed their working thesis at least three times that I can see....yes it was a robbery gone bad. Oh no did we say robbery? We didn't mean it. We think it had something to do with whatever Johnny and Lisa did but hey Toledo, don't worry: the perps are long gone. Hell, they're in NC by now. All we want to do is feed at the public trough.

Hey can I get an oink outta that?

You've listed two theories by LE, neither of which are mutually exclusive. What is the third?

I agree, they are not mutually exclusive at all. And I have not given up on LE. The billboards are great. No arrest, no named suspects, so the billboard does send a message. That LE wants to solve this case. If that Sherrif knows enough to say J&L instigated the crime, then I believe that LE knows a lot. I hated his word, but I don't think it was just pulled out of his ass. The same with calling it a hit. And out of the area could just mean the Straub's neighborhood. I just have to go with DCTim. The DNA is back, we just haave to wait and see.

(03-07-2011, 11:22 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:17 AM)esbee Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 10:48 AM)van64 Wrote: I don't think they have any idea who did this either, Trix. If LE had a clue, they wouldn't need a billboard so large you can see it from the moon and in reading the news articles again last night, LE has changed their working thesis at least three times that I can see....yes it was a robbery gone bad. Oh no did we say robbery? We didn't mean it. We think it had something to do with whatever Johnny and Lisa did but hey Toledo, don't worry: the perps are long gone. Hell, they're in NC by now. All we want to do is feed at the public trough.

Hey can I get an oink outta that?

You've listed two theories by LE, neither of which are mutually exclusive. What is the third?

That the killer(s) are out of town and LE doesn't need to worry about it.

I believe he was reassuring the community.

HELL I know if it was me in this situation there WOULD be some DNA somewhere because Im biting the fuck outta U, clawin ur ass up, rippin ur hair out, and gouging ur fuckin eyes out! LMAO! IF I CAN! I swear Id do anything if I thought I was going to die anyways to get the KILLER(S) DNA!

(03-07-2011, 11:22 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:17 AM)esbee Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 10:48 AM)van64 Wrote: I don't think they have any idea who did this either, Trix. If LE had a clue, they wouldn't need a billboard so large you can see it from the moon and in reading the news articles again last night, LE has changed their working thesis at least three times that I can see....yes it was a robbery gone bad. Oh no did we say robbery? We didn't mean it. We think it had something to do with whatever Johnny and Lisa did but hey Toledo, don't worry: the perps are long gone. Hell, they're in NC by now. All we want to do is feed at the public trough.

Hey can I get an oink outta that?

You've listed two theories by LE, neither of which are mutually exclusive. What is the third?

That the killer(s) are out of town and LE doesn't need to worry about it.

Again, not mutually exclusive. And where did LE say they didn't have to worry about it?

We Are Supposed to all be treated EQUAL no matter our problems (mentally ill, druggie, prostitute, etc etc.) are!
[/quote]

Please tell me you're not really that naive.

(03-07-2011, 11:21 AM)JsMom Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:16 AM)AriGold Wrote: And Lisa had a DUI so you can say too that she was a menace to other citizens.

A menace? Seriously?

Unless she was habitually driving drunk, that's probably a bit of an overstatement.

He was saying thats how the cops think!
[/quote]

Thanks---I wasn't sure.

(03-07-2011, 11:31 AM)AriGold Wrote: We Are Supposed to all be treated EQUAL no matter our problems (mentally ill, druggie, prostitute, etc etc.) are!

Please tell me you're not really that naive.

[/quote]
WELL WE SHOULD BE! WE R ALL HUMAN!

(03-07-2011, 11:19 AM)kitty1 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 10:07 AM)Jane Wrote: I think the injuries to their necks were from the duct tape wrapped tightly around the bags. As in extemely tight. Maybe even ended up being tied in a tight knot.

My understanding from the family is that the injuries to the neck were most likely the result of very tight tape around the neck and the thrashing about of the victim while they were putting the tape on.

Then there had to be more than one perp. Lets just say that is a fact! one with the tape, and at least one more (probably a few more) to hold the person down, and a few to hold the other one also.