(03-07-2011, 11:33 AM)JsMom Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:31 AM)AriGold Wrote: We Are Supposed to all be treated EQUAL no matter our problems (mentally ill, druggie, prostitute, etc etc.) are!

Please tell me you're not really that naive.

WELL WE SHOULD BE! WE R ALL HUMAN!

[/quote]

SHOULD < REALITY

(03-07-2011, 02:48 AM)van64 Wrote:

Here is part of Maytee's interview with Jane Velez-Mitchell...Maytee seems to think too it is all about Lisa. Possibly Lisa's ex boyfriend who just got out of jail. Wow she liked those jail-bird boys didn't she? If he is that jealous he comes over and whacks them both but that still doesn't explain what he would be doing in the bedroom poking holes in the wall.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think he had any enemies? That`s all I`m trying to figure out.

VAZQUEZ: No, he did not have any enemies. And actually, Lisa`s boyfriend was in prison for robbery and just got out of prison a couple months ago.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes...

VAZQUEZ: Lisa`s ex-boyfriend was in prison for robbery. Yes, my son, no, he didn`t have any enemies. This has nothing to do with my son.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, OK.

VAZQUEZ: She would be more connected to this than my son would.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s...

VAZQUEZ: These people knew...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.

VAZQUEZ: These people knew her and they knew how to get into her house.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Can we rewind and take a...

VAZQUEZ: My son did not live there.

maytee lied, why? johnny did live there, lisas uncle even said he did. that is why he told media johnny lived there. he outed maytee. the one who has answers is maytee. she know what her son was into and probably knows people he dealt with. now i too agree, maytee know more. hell, she has too. i think he got a stash and people knew so they stole it. but why kill them. hate? god i pray this case is solve. and if i lived in toledo i would still be nervous and locking doors and checking locks. i will never believe this was a professional hit. never.

(03-07-2011, 11:31 AM)AriGold Wrote: We Are Supposed to all be treated EQUAL no matter our problems (mentally ill, druggie, prostitute, etc etc.) are!

Please tell me you're not really that naive.

[/quote]

Naive~ would be for someone to think that it was OK for someone to get murdered because they were a prostitute/druggie! ITS NOT OK!

(03-07-2011, 11:37 AM)JsMom Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:31 AM)AriGold Wrote: We Are Supposed to all be treated EQUAL no matter our problems (mentally ill, druggie, prostitute, etc etc.) are!

Please tell me you're not really that naive.

Naive~ would be for someone to think that it was OK for someone to get murdered because they were a prostitute/druggie! ITS NOT OK!
[/quote]

I'm not sure what dictionary you're using but....

Naive:
–adjective
1.having or showing unaffected simplicity of nature or absence of artificiality; unsophisticated; ingenuous.
2. having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information; credulous: She's so naive she believes everything she reads. He has a very naive attitude toward politics.

(03-07-2011, 11:40 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:37 AM)JsMom Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:31 AM)AriGold Wrote: We Are Supposed to all be treated EQUAL no matter our problems (mentally ill, druggie, prostitute, etc etc.) are!

Please tell me you're not really that naive.

Naive~ would be for someone to think that it was OK for someone to get murdered because they were a prostitute/druggie! ITS NOT OK!

I'm not sure what dictionary you're using but....

Naive:
–adjective
1.having or showing unaffected simplicity of nature or absence of artificiality; unsophisticated; ingenuous.
2. having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information; credulous: She's so naive she believes everything she reads. He has a very naive attitude toward politics.

[/quote]

Im talking about this case at hand not the damn dictionary! I dont get into readin the dictionary! Im just sayin if LE really hasnt been putting their all into this case because they assume these kids were into/on/selling drugs is wrong! Thats all Im sayin!

(03-07-2011, 11:32 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:21 AM)JsMom Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:16 AM)AriGold Wrote: And Lisa had a DUI so you can say too that she was a menace to other citizens.

A menace? Seriously?

Unless she was habitually driving drunk, that's probably a bit of an overstatement.

He was saying thats how the cops think!

Thanks---I wasn't sure.


[/quote]

but the cops don't think that way about a 20 year old with a dui either.

[/quote]

maytee lied, why? johnny did live there, lisas uncle even said he did. that is why he told media johnny lived there. he outed maytee. the one who has answers is maytee. she know what her son was into and probably knows people he dealt with. now i too agree, maytee know more. hell, she has too. i think he got a stash and people knew so they stole it. but why kill them. hate? god i pray this case is solve. and if i lived in toledo i would still be nervous and locking doors and checking locks. i will never believe this was a professional hit. never.
[/quote]

I always thought that Maytee said Johnny was just house sitting or that he would sometimes stay there & sometimes stay with her because of the conditions of his probation being that he wasn't suppose to move anywhere without either permission or atleast informing his probation officer of where he was now living. Not that it would matter if she was honest that he had in fact moved, not like he was going to get in trouble for it after death or anything. I also agree that I do not think it was a professional hit & probably won't change my mind on that.

maytee lied, why? johnny did live there, lisas uncle even said he did. that is why he told media johnny lived there. he outed maytee. the one who has answers is maytee. she know what her son was into and probably knows people he dealt with. now i too agree, maytee know more. hell, she has too. i think he got a stash and people knew so they stole it. but why kill them. hate? god i pray this case is solve. and if i lived in toledo i would still be nervous and locking doors and checking locks. i will never believe this was a professional hit. never.
[/quote]

I always thought that Maytee said Johnny was just house sitting or that he would sometimes stay there & sometimes stay with her because of the conditions of his probation being that he wasn't suppose to move anywhere without either permission or atleast informing his probation officer of where he was now living. Not that it would matter if she was honest that he had in fact moved, not like he was going to get in trouble for it after death or anything. I also agree that I do not think it was a professional hit & probably won't change my mind on that.
[/quote]

right, i agree

(03-07-2011, 11:44 AM)notsure Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:32 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:21 AM)JsMom Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:16 AM)AriGold Wrote: And Lisa had a DUI so you can say too that she was a menace to other citizens.

A menace? Seriously?

Unless she was habitually driving drunk, that's probably a bit of an overstatement.

He was saying thats how the cops think!

Thanks---I wasn't sure.

but the cops don't think that way about a 20 year old with a dui either.
[/quote]

Yeah, I know. I figured it wasn't even worth opening up that dialogue, if you catch my drift.

I just overheard a 300 pound woman explain that she adds Velveeta to everything. Sometimes correlation IS causation.

(03-07-2011, 11:52 AM)AriGold Wrote:
I just overheard a 300 pound woman explain that she adds Velveeta to everything. Sometimes correlation IS causation.

O My Lord! No wonder shes 300 pounds! GeeZ~Ari your too funny!

(03-07-2011, 08:08 AM)fabulous Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 07:22 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 07:19 AM)Duchess Wrote:

Well...shit.

Why the hell am I under the impression the wires were cut? WTF

LOL because someone said that they were but it could have been one of those "psst psst by the way, did you hear?" kind of deals. But, I did not read that in any of the news articles tonight. Not even a hint of wires being cut or tampered with. The articles mentioned the security system papers being out but that was it.

I believe that the uncle said that the security system was not working at the time...like it had been turned off, deactivated, bill not payed, that kind of thing. *From what I can remember*

My recollection is that the security system papers were found in plain view by LE.

This could mean that JC and/or LS may have been annoyed by the system and foolishly disarmed it soon after her parents left. I suggest this possibility because some people grow impatient with having to remember to press the proper buttons to stop the alarm from going off when entering and leaving.

Or JC might have disarmed it while LS was at work, if he himself was looking for a safe or valuables in the house.

The paperwork would have of course told how to disarm or modify the settings on the system and, in addition, the parents may have made the common error of writing the security code on or in the manual.

Or, the perpetrators may have had the papers out in order to disarm the system before going upstairs to look for the safe.

A security system can have zones of protection, some turned on and some turned off.

[/quote]

I agree, they are not mutually exclusive at all. And I have not given up on LE. The billboards are great. No arrest, no named suspects, so the billboard does send a message. That LE wants to solve this case. If that Sherrif knows enough to say J&L instigated the crime, then I believe that LE knows a lot. I hated his word, but I don't think it was just pulled out of his ass. The same with calling it a hit. And out of the area could just mean the Straub's neighborhood. I just have to go with DCTim. The DNA is back, we just haave to wait and see.


[/quote]

I agree with this. I haven't given up on LE either. I think the fact that Lisa was murdered too is what will push them. If it had just been Johnny, maybe not so much just because of his back ground & I'm not saying that's right or OK. But with Lisa, that's someone they can identify with.... white, pretty, from a nice home, both parents still together.... married on a anniversary cruise, in nursing school, not much of a criminal background aside from one DUI.... they'll identify with her. You see that even here on this board. How many times have I read more sympathy for the Straubs than the Clarkes? lol You don't think the detectives are viewing this the same way? I'm sure they are & probably even more so because they see the effects of a criminal lifestyle on a daily basis & I'm sure that it hardens them. So Johnny, he's most likely viewed, like alot of people here have viewed him, as someone who played with fire & got burned. But Lisa.... she's someone who got caught up in a bad thing, she didn't belong in that social circle. In many peoples eyes, she is the real victim here. I don't agree with this, I think they both are victims. JMO

(03-07-2011, 11:56 AM)Methusala Wrote: My recollection is that the security system papers were found in plain view by LE.

This could mean that JC and/or LS may have been annoyed by the system and foolishly disarmed it soon after her parents left. I suggest this possibility because some people grow impatient with having to remember to press the proper buttons to stop the alarm from going off when entering and leaving.

Or JC might have disarmed it while LS was at work, if he himself was looking for a safe or valuables in the house.

The paperwork would have of course told how to disarm or modify the settings on the system and, in addition, the parents may have made the common error of writing the security code on or in the manual.

Or, the perpetrators may have had the papers out in order to disarm the system before going upstairs to look for the safe.

A security system can have zones of protection, some turned on and some turned off.

Good morning, Methusala.

Another possibility that had crossed my mind was that the perpetrators believed there was a safe in the house. When LS and JC could not provide the location for a safe that wasn't there, the perpetrators demanded the paperwork to ascertain whether the security company had installed one.

I agree, they are not mutually exclusive at all. And I have not given up on LE. The billboards are great. No arrest, no named suspects, so the billboard does send a message. That LE wants to solve this case. If that Sherrif knows enough to say J&L instigated the crime, then I believe that LE knows a lot. I hated his word, but I don't think it was just pulled out of his ass. The same with calling it a hit. And out of the area could just mean the Straub's neighborhood. I just have to go with DCTim. The DNA is back, we just haave to wait and see.


[/quote]

I agree with this. I haven't given up on LE either. I think the fact that Lisa was murdered too is what will push them. If it had just been Johnny, maybe not so much just because of his back ground & I'm not saying that's right or OK. But with Lisa, that's someone they can identify with.... white, pretty, from a nice home, both parents still together.... married on a anniversary cruise, in nursing school, not much of a criminal background aside from one DUI.... they'll identify with her. You see that even here on this board. How many times have I read more sympathy for the Straubs than the Clarkes? lol You don't think the detectives are viewing this the same way? I'm sure they are & probably even more so because they see the effects of a criminal lifestyle on a daily basis & I'm sure that it hardens them. So Johnny, he's most likely viewed, like alot of people here have viewed him, as someone who played with fire & got burned. But Lisa.... she's someone who got caught up in a bad thing, she didn't belong in that social circle. In many peoples eyes, she is the real victim here. I don't agree with this, I think they both are victims. JMO
[/quote]

I could not agree with you and Adub more. Thank you, Freshbait.

Here's my take on the security papers & safe:

Security Papers: The parents had just went out of town, to me it is not far fetched to believe that the security papers were out because the parents put them out before they left. "Here kids, here's the security system papers, if something goes wrong, can't figure out how to turn it on or off, here's the papers that will show you how... Make sure you use it" The end. When the uncle said the system was not activated, I think he meant just that... it was not on. Turned off. Maybe & probably because JC & LS didn't feel like turning it on & off everytime they walked in & out & everytime people came over. They were young & young people don't worry about things like that. Nothing can happen to them right?

Safe: One of two things.... either Johnny was bragging about them having a safe or they told the perps there was a safe in the master bedroom walk in closet, maybe to try to distract them & keep them busy so they could get away, make a phone call for help etc. It may be at this point, that they were bound with tape to prevent them from escaping while they went on a search for the non existant safe. I do not believe that Johnny would tell them there was a safe knowing that there wasn't for anyother reason than to try to get them in a different area so they could get away. There is a reason why these perps went directly to the Straubs master bedroom closet & started knocking holes in walls there as opposed to anyother location in the house. It's because they were told to go there, either before the event (Johnny bragging?) or during the event (An attempt to escape while the perps were busy)

JMO

(03-07-2011, 12:21 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote: Here's my take on the security papers & safe:

Security Papers: The parents had just went out of town, to me it is not far fetched to believe that the security papers were out because the parents put them out before they left. "Here kids, here's the security system papers, if something goes wrong, can't figure out how to turn it on or off, here's the papers that will show you how... Make sure you use it" The end. When the uncle said the system was not activated, I think he meant just that... it was not on. Turned off. Maybe & probably because JC & LS didn't feel like turning it on & off everytime they walked in & out & everytime people came over. They were young & young people don't worry about things like that. Nothing can happen to them right?

Safe: One of two things.... either Johnny was bragging about them having a safe or they told the perps there was a safe in the master bedroom walk in closet, maybe to try to distract them & keep them busy so they could get away, make a phone call for help etc. It may be at this point, that they were bound with tape to prevent them from escaping while they went on a search for the non existant safe. I do not believe that Johnny would tell them there was a safe knowing that there wasn't for anyother reason than to try to get them in a different area so they could get away. There is a reason why these perps went directly to the Straubs master bedroom closet & started knocking holes in walls there as opposed to anyother location in the house. It's because they were told to go there, either before the event (Johnny bragging?) or during the event (An attempt to escape while the perps were busy)

JMO

Very likely.

(03-07-2011, 11:56 AM)Methusala Wrote: My recollection is that the security system papers were found in plain view by LE.

This could mean that JC and/or LS may have been annoyed by the system and foolishly disarmed it soon after her parents left. I suggest this possibility because some people grow impatient with having to remember to press the proper buttons to stop the alarm from going off when entering and leaving.

Or JC might have disarmed it while LS was at work, if he himself was looking for a safe or valuables in the house.

The paperwork would have of course told how to disarm or modify the settings on the system and, in addition, the parents may have made the common error of writing the security code on or in the manual.

Or, the perpetrators may have had the papers out in order to disarm the system before going upstairs to look for the safe.

A security system can have zones of protection, some turned on and some turned off.

I DO think the wires were cut and the papers were out because JC and LS became aware of its malfunction and were trying to figure out a remedy. If you dont pay a monthly monitoring fee the company will not immediately notify the police that there was a disturbance (wires cut) but the home owner will be made aware of the problem on the "dial pad" by the door. That pad is where you arm and disarm your system and it will display "COMM ERROR" if the system isn't able to reach outside the home.

About the comments that we all "deserve equal protection and efforts to solve crimes should NOT vary"... In a perfect world that would be the case, but the reality is that there are NOT enough resources to permit this.
The resources must be applied in a descending order of priority weighed against workload at hand. I believe this case will be solved but convictions may be tough to get because eveyone "Won't Snitch" and LE has to work some leverage here and progress is slow. I would not want their job and I am glad they are there and do what they do. This is the type of job you can't help but take home with you. It can disturb your sleep and disrupt your marriage and relationships with people you love.

… I have not given up on LE. … LE wants to solve this case. If that Sherrif knows enough to say J&L instigated the crime, then I believe that LE knows a lot. I hated his word, but I don't think it was just pulled out of his ass. The same with calling it a hit. ….


[/quote]

I agree with this. I haven't given up on LE either. I think the fact that Lisa was murdered too is what will push them. … with Lisa, that's someone they can identify with … they'll identify with her. … You don't think the detectives are viewing this the same way? I'm sure they are & probably even more so because they see the effects of a criminal lifestyle on a daily basis & I'm sure that it hardens them.…
[/quote]

We all keep referring to "Law Enforcement" and "The Detectives" and that conjures up a certain image, but I keep worrying about just what kind of depth, experience and training exists in the Lucas County Sheriff's Department to handle the investigation of a murder case.

Are we picturing a big staff of trained, experienced civil service detectives, like the the Detective Bureau of the Toledo Police Department has?

Or does the Det. Bureau of the Sheriff's Office consist of only 2-3 people given jobs by the Sheriff as political favors, which is the way I believe the rest of the Sheriff's staff is filled, to-wit his deputies who do traffic patrol and misdemeanors in the unincorporated areas of the county, and run the county jail?

How many people does the Sheriff have in his Detective Bureau? What is their training? What is their experience in handling homicide cases? Just to what extent are they getting assistance if any from the FBI and the Toledo Police Department?

We don't know the answers to these questions, and it troubles me greatly.

How can we find out the answers to these questions? Would the Sheriff answers these questions or would he contend that public responses would compromise the investigation?

Is there anyone on Mock who has friends on TPD or other local agencies who would know the answers to these questions?

(03-07-2011, 12:21 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote: Here's my take on the security papers & safe:

Security Papers: The parents had just went out of town, to me it is not far fetched to believe that the security papers were out because the parents put them out before they left. "Here kids, here's the security system papers, if something goes wrong, can't figure out how to turn it on or off, here's the papers that will show you how... Make sure you use it" The end. When the uncle said the system was not activated, I think he meant just that... it was not on. Turned off. Maybe & probably because JC & LS didn't feel like turning it on & off everytime they walked in & out & everytime people came over. They were young & young people don't worry about things like that. Nothing can happen to them right?

Safe: One of two things.... either Johnny was bragging about them having a safe or they told the perps there was a safe in the master bedroom walk in closet, maybe to try to distract them & keep them busy so they could get away, make a phone call for help etc. It may be at this point, that they were bound with tape to prevent them from escaping while they went on a search for the non existant safe. I do not believe that Johnny would tell them there was a safe knowing that there wasn't for anyother reason than to try to get them in a different area so they could get away. There is a reason why these perps went directly to the Straubs master bedroom closet & started knocking holes in walls there as opposed to anyother location in the house. It's because they were told to go there, either before the event (Johnny bragging?) or during the event (An attempt to escape while the perps were busy)

JMO

I agree Freshbait!!