I agree, they are not mutually exclusive at all. And I have not given up on LE. The billboards are great. No arrest, no named suspects, so the billboard does send a message. That LE wants to solve this case. If that Sherrif knows enough to say J&L instigated the crime, then I believe that LE knows a lot. I hated his word, but I don't think it was just pulled out of his ass. The same with calling it a hit. And out of the area could just mean the Straub's neighborhood. I just have to go with DCTim. The DNA is back, we just haave to wait and see.


[/quote]

I agree with this. I haven't given up on LE either. I think the fact that Lisa was murdered too is what will push them. If it had just been Johnny, maybe not so much just because of his back ground & I'm not saying that's right or OK. But with Lisa, that's someone they can identify with.... white, pretty, from a nice home, both parents still together.... married on a anniversary cruise, in nursing school, not much of a criminal background aside from one DUI.... they'll identify with her. You see that even here on this board. How many times have I read more sympathy for the Straubs than the Clarkes? lol You don't think the detectives are viewing this the same way? I'm sure they are & probably even more so because they see the effects of a criminal lifestyle on a daily basis & I'm sure that it hardens them. So Johnny, he's most likely viewed, like alot of people here have viewed him, as someone who played with fire & got burned. But Lisa.... she's someone who got caught up in a bad thing, she didn't belong in that social circle. In many peoples eyes, she is the real victim here. I don't agree with this, I think they both are victims. JMO
[/quote]Unfortunately, the bottom line is LE seems to have reached a dead end with what information they have. It's inconceivable to think they have DNA, or any other evidence, upon which they could predicate an arrest but that they have not effected an arrest yet. I don't think they are holding back because a killer or killers is or are on the loose and are very likely to kill someone again...and bad guys don't always exclusively kill bad guys.

(03-07-2011, 12:21 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote: Here's my take on the security papers & safe:

Security Papers: The parents had just went out of town, to me it is not far fetched to believe that the security papers were out because the parents put them out before they left. "Here kids, here's the security system papers, if something goes wrong, can't figure out how to turn it on or off, here's the papers that will show you how... Make sure you use it" The end. When the uncle said the system was not activated, I think he meant just that... it was not on. Turned off. Maybe & probably because JC & LS didn't feel like turning it on & off everytime they walked in & out & everytime people came over. They were young & young people don't worry about things like that. Nothing can happen to them right?

Safe: One of two things.... either Johnny was bragging about them having a safe or they told the perps there was a safe in the master bedroom walk in closet, maybe to try to distract them & keep them busy so they could get away, make a phone call for help etc. It may be at this point, that they were bound with tape to prevent them from escaping while they went on a search for the non existant safe. I do not believe that Johnny would tell them there was a safe knowing that there wasn't for anyother reason than to try to get them in a different area so they could get away. There is a reason why these perps went directly to the Straubs master bedroom closet & started knocking holes in walls there as opposed to anyother location in the house. It's because they were told to go there, either before the event (Johnny bragging?) or during the event (An attempt to escape while the perps were busy)

JMO

Johnny bragging, unfortunately, makes a lot of sense. That would indicate it's a friend or, at the outlier, an acquaintance of his.

(03-07-2011, 12:56 PM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 12:53 PM)esbee Wrote: I couldn't find staffing details for the Lucas County Sheriff's Department. I did come across this, however:

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section...id=7632050

That's from August, but maybe now they only have 1 detective and a gerbil staffed.

It would explain everything.

Remember the 911 calls, at the end the dispatcher made calls to 3 detectives

(03-07-2011, 12:35 PM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote: About the comments that we all "deserve equal protection and efforts to solve crimes should NOT vary"... In a perfect world that would be the case, but the reality is that there are NOT enough resources to permit this.
The resources must be applied in a descending order of priority weighed against workload at hand. I believe this case will be solved but convictions may be tough to get because eveyone "Won't Snitch" and LE has to work some leverage here and progress is slow. I would not want their job and I am glad they are there and do what they do. This is the type of job you can't help but take home with you. It can disturb your sleep and disrupt your marriage and relationships with people you love.

Make no mistake about it, LE is not there because they are kind hearted and they are not in LE for altruistic reasons. LE are paid well for what they do, very well relative to other occupations, and YOU pay their salaries and I pay their salaries. The money used to pay their salaries, benefits, disability insurances and the very generous retirement system that is common to all public employees, does not drop out of the air and land in their laps. YOU and I pay for it...not every cent of it of course, since LE personnel pay taxes also, but you and I pay the vast majority of what it takes for them to do their jobs.

Just take away their pay, their disability insurances, their retirement benefits...and see how long they do what they do.

(03-07-2011, 12:41 PM)Methusala Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 12:04 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

… I have not given up on LE. … LE wants to solve this case. If that Sherrif knows enough to say J&L instigated the crime, then I believe that LE knows a lot. I hated his word, but I don't think it was just pulled out of his ass. The same with calling it a hit. ….

I agree with this. I haven't given up on LE either. I think the fact that Lisa was murdered too is what will push them. … with Lisa, that's someone they can identify with … they'll identify with her. … You don't think the detectives are viewing this the same way? I'm sure they are & probably even more so because they see the effects of a criminal lifestyle on a daily basis & I'm sure that it hardens them.…
[/quote]

We all keep referring to "Law Enforcement" and "The Detectives" and that conjures up a certain image, but I keep worrying about just what kind of depth, experience and training exists in the Lucas County Sheriff's Department to handle the investigation of a murder case.

Are we picturing a big staff of trained, experienced civil service detectives, like the the Detective Bureau of the Toledo Police Department has?

Or does the Det. Bureau of the Sheriff's Office consist of only 2-3 people given jobs by the Sheriff as political favors, which is the way I believe the rest of the Sheriff's staff is filled, to-wit his deputies who do traffic patrol and misdemeanors in the unincorporated areas of the county, and run the county jail?

How many people does the Sheriff have in his Detective Bureau? What is their training? What is their experience in handling homicide cases? Just to what extent are they getting assistance if any from the FBI and the Toledo Police Department?

We don't know the answers to these questions, and it troubles me greatly.

How can we find out the answers to these questions? Would the Sheriff answers these questions or would he contend that public responses would compromise the investigation?

Is there anyone on Mock who has friends on TPD or other local agencies who would know the answers to these questions?


[/quote]No Sheriff is going to answer these questions. Of course the jobs are political and there is little formal training involved.

(03-07-2011, 01:20 PM)AriGold Wrote:



Wonder if she "ate her troubles away" after the Steelers lost.

Yikes!

(03-07-2011, 12:56 PM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 12:53 PM)esbee Wrote: I couldn't find staffing details for the Lucas County Sheriff's Department. I did come across this, however:

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section...id=7632050

That's from August, but maybe now they only have 1 detective and a gerbil staffed.

It would explain everything.

Well the gerbil explains a lot.

(03-07-2011, 01:03 PM)Duchess Wrote:

Didn't I read that the lead detective on this case had already screwed up at least one murder investigation...or doesn't that apply because she was investigating the murder of an inmate?

I would hope it would apply to any murder investigation she screwed up.

(03-07-2011, 01:20 PM)AriGold Wrote:



Wonder if she "ate her troubles away" after the Steelers lost.

Wow. She has a pretty smile. I bet she'd be a lot of fun with a great personality.

One thing I keep seeing people mention is that because of JC's size he should have been able to over come and defend himself and LS. However if He was taking pills, if this is the case he may not have been up to his normal strength. I take pain medication for a back injury and I know at times I am woozie and dizzy besides other side affects and other times I am fine depending on my level of pain that day. And that is for someone who needs them. For people who take them when they don't need them and are high that dizzy and whoozie feeling is greater. If as a possibility (and I'm just throwing this out there) he took some pills, maybe because he picked LS up from work and maybe he knew he wasn't gonna drive anymore (being a responsible driver) and she was gonna drive if they went anywhere, or he didn't care if he drove on pills, either way. If he had taken pills or any drugs he wouldn't be necessarily up to his normal strength, I would think to defend himself.

(03-07-2011, 01:40 PM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 01:20 PM)AriGold Wrote:

Wonder if she "ate her troubles away" after the Steelers lost.

I liked your post of the "Titted Nun" better

:B

I need to put in an order for a nun like that at our church.

(03-07-2011, 02:29 PM)heartbreaker6713 Wrote: One thing I keep seeing people mention is that because of JC's size he should have been able to over come and defend himself and LS. However if He was taking pills, if this is the case he may not have been up to his normal strength. I take pain medication for a back injury and I know at times I am woozie and dizzy besides other side affects and other times I am fine depending on my level of pain that day. And that is for someone who needs them. For people who take them when they don't need them and are high that dizzy and whoozie feeling is greater. If as a possibility (and I'm just throwing this out there) he took some pills, maybe because he picked LS up from work and maybe he knew he wasn't gonna drive anymore (being a responsible driver) and she was gonna drive if they went anywhere, or he didn't care if he drove on pills, either way. If he had taken pills or any drugs he wouldn't be necessarily up to his normal strength, I would think to defend himself.

Ah, very good point, heartbreaker. If Johnny was hopped up on pills or drugs, he would have been a pushover in a sense wouldn't he? How reliable do we think the blood-spattered kitchen is? If that is accurate, it would appear the blood belonged to the perp since Johnny was reported as having no injuries of that nature and Lisa's bleeding seemed to have been contained within the bag.

I wish I had enough time to respond to EVERY freakin' post...much less read them...ugh, frustrating!

(03-07-2011, 02:29 PM)heartbreaker6713 Wrote: One thing I keep seeing people mention is that because of JC's size he should have been able to over come and defend himself and LS. However if He was taking pills, if this is the case he may not have been up to his normal strength. I take pain medication for a back injury and I know at times I am woozie and dizzy besides other side affects and other times I am fine depending on my level of pain that day. And that is for someone who needs them. For people who take them when they don't need them and are high that dizzy and whoozie feeling is greater. If as a possibility (and I'm just throwing this out there) he took some pills, maybe because he picked LS up from work and maybe he knew he wasn't gonna drive anymore (being a responsible driver) and she was gonna drive if they went anywhere, or he didn't care if he drove on pills, either way. If he had taken pills or any drugs he wouldn't be necessarily up to his normal strength, I would think to defend himself.

Or.. its been discussed on here before that they could have had Lisa and he dint want her to get hurt so he let them tie him up so she would be ok.

(03-07-2011, 02:36 PM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:29 PM)heartbreaker6713 Wrote: One thing I keep seeing people mention is that because of JC's size he should have been able to over come and defend himself and LS. However if He was taking pills, if this is the case he may not have been up to his normal strength. I take pain medication for a back injury and I know at times I am woozie and dizzy besides other side affects and other times I am fine depending on my level of pain that day. And that is for someone who needs them. For people who take them when they don't need them and are high that dizzy and whoozie feeling is greater. If as a possibility (and I'm just throwing this out there) he took some pills, maybe because he picked LS up from work and maybe he knew he wasn't gonna drive anymore (being a responsible driver) and she was gonna drive if they went anywhere, or he didn't care if he drove on pills, either way. If he had taken pills or any drugs he wouldn't be necessarily up to his normal strength, I would think to defend himself.

Ah, very good point, heartbreaker. If Johnny was hopped up on pills or drugs, he would have been a pushover in a sense wouldn't he? How reliable do we think the blood-spattered kitchen is? If that is accurate, it would appear the blood belonged to the perp since Johnny was reported as having no injuries of that nature and Lisa's bleeding seemed to have been contained within the bag.

That is what I was wondering about the kitchen scene, if a fight or struggle broke out, wouldn't JS have some type of injuries to his knucles or defensive wounds? or something? Was it released from LE that there was a struggle in the kitchen? Who talked about there being blood in the kitchen? LE or a reliable source? if not then it just goes into the speculation column with many other things!

(03-07-2011, 02:50 PM)heartbreaker6713 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:36 PM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:29 PM)heartbreaker6713 Wrote: One thing I keep seeing people mention is that because of JC's size he should have been able to over come and defend himself and LS. However if He was taking pills, if this is the case he may not have been up to his normal strength. I take pain medication for a back injury and I know at times I am woozie and dizzy besides other side affects and other times I am fine depending on my level of pain that day. And that is for someone who needs them. For people who take them when they don't need them and are high that dizzy and whoozie feeling is greater. If as a possibility (and I'm just throwing this out there) he took some pills, maybe because he picked LS up from work and maybe he knew he wasn't gonna drive anymore (being a responsible driver) and she was gonna drive if they went anywhere, or he didn't care if he drove on pills, either way. If he had taken pills or any drugs he wouldn't be necessarily up to his normal strength, I would think to defend himself.

Ah, very good point, heartbreaker. If Johnny was hopped up on pills or drugs, he would have been a pushover in a sense wouldn't he? How reliable do we think the blood-spattered kitchen is? If that is accurate, it would appear the blood belonged to the perp since Johnny was reported as having no injuries of that nature and Lisa's bleeding seemed to have been contained within the bag.

That is what I was wondering about the kitchen scene, if a fight or struggle broke out, wouldn't JS have some type of injuries to his knucles or defensive wounds? or something? Was it released from LE that there was a struggle in the kitchen? Who talked about there being blood in the kitchen? LE or a reliable source? if not then it just goes into the speculation column with many other things!

unknown said it

(03-07-2011, 02:43 PM)trixie Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:29 PM)heartbreaker6713 Wrote: One thing I keep seeing people mention is that because of JC's size he should have been able to over come and defend himself and LS. However if He was taking pills, if this is the case he may not have been up to his normal strength. I take pain medication for a back injury and I know at times I am woozie and dizzy besides other side affects and other times I am fine depending on my level of pain that day. And that is for someone who needs them. For people who take them when they don't need them and are high that dizzy and whoozie feeling is greater. If as a possibility (and I'm just throwing this out there) he took some pills, maybe because he picked LS up from work and maybe he knew he wasn't gonna drive anymore (being a responsible driver) and she was gonna drive if they went anywhere, or he didn't care if he drove on pills, either way. If he had taken pills or any drugs he wouldn't be necessarily up to his normal strength, I would think to defend himself.

Or.. its been discussed on here before that they could have had Lisa and he dint want her to get hurt so he let them tie him up so she would be ok.

this is a theory too, I was just trying to offer a different view point that hadn't been offered yet and I just kept hearing everyone say that he wouldn't have gone down easy. So I just wanted to throw my two cents in on what I know personally about my pain medicine experience. I take one that kids on the street love to get their hands on. I, however, do not abuse mine!

(03-07-2011, 02:53 PM)notsure Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:50 PM)heartbreaker6713 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:36 PM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:29 PM)heartbreaker6713 Wrote: One thing I keep seeing people mention is that because of JC's size he should have been able to over come and defend himself and LS. However if He was taking pills, if this is the case he may not have been up to his normal strength. I take pain medication for a back injury and I know at times I am woozie and dizzy besides other side affects and other times I am fine depending on my level of pain that day. And that is for someone who needs them. For people who take them when they don't need them and are high that dizzy and whoozie feeling is greater. If as a possibility (and I'm just throwing this out there) he took some pills, maybe because he picked LS up from work and maybe he knew he wasn't gonna drive anymore (being a responsible driver) and she was gonna drive if they went anywhere, or he didn't care if he drove on pills, either way. If he had taken pills or any drugs he wouldn't be necessarily up to his normal strength, I would think to defend himself.

Ah, very good point, heartbreaker. If Johnny was hopped up on pills or drugs, he would have been a pushover in a sense wouldn't he? How reliable do we think the blood-spattered kitchen is? If that is accurate, it would appear the blood belonged to the perp since Johnny was reported as having no injuries of that nature and Lisa's bleeding seemed to have been contained within the bag.

That is what I was wondering about the kitchen scene, if a fight or struggle broke out, wouldn't JS have some type of injuries to his knucles or defensive wounds? or something? Was it released from LE that there was a struggle in the kitchen? Who talked about there being blood in the kitchen? LE or a reliable source? if not then it just goes into the speculation column with many other things!

unknown said it

Just my thinking, wouldn't JS then have some type wounds somewhere? You don't usually get into a fight or scuffle and not come out with a mark. Even when you wrestle with someone you can get blood blisters when you are rough housing. When you are fighting for your life I would think you would go all out. I just think you'd come out with some marks. Just doesn't make sense...

(03-07-2011, 12:35 PM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 11:56 AM)Methusala Wrote: My recollection is that the security system papers were found in plain view by LE.

This could mean that JC and/or LS may have been annoyed by the system and foolishly disarmed it soon after her parents left. I suggest this possibility because some people grow impatient with having to remember to press the proper buttons to stop the alarm from going off when entering and leaving.

Or JC might have disarmed it while LS was at work, if he himself was looking for a safe or valuables in the house.

The paperwork would have of course told how to disarm or modify the settings on the system and, in addition, the parents may have made the common error of writing the security code on or in the manual.

Or, the perpetrators may have had the papers out in order to disarm the system before going upstairs to look for the safe.

A security system can have zones of protection, some turned on and some turned off.

I DO think the wires were cut and the papers were out because JC and LS became aware of its malfunction and were trying to figure out a remedy. If you dont pay a monthly monitoring fee the company will not immediately notify the police that there was a disturbance (wires cut) but the home owner will be made aware of the problem on the "dial pad" by the door. That pad is where you arm and disarm your system and it will display "COMM ERROR" if the system isn't able to reach outside the home.

About the comments that we all "deserve equal protection and efforts to solve crimes should NOT vary"... In a perfect world that would be the case, but the reality is that there are NOT enough resources to permit this.
The resources must be applied in a descending order of priority weighed against workload at hand. I believe this case will be solved but convictions may be tough to get because eveyone "Won't Snitch" and LE has to work some leverage here and progress is slow. I would not want their job and I am glad they are there and do what they do. This is the type of job you can't help but take home with you. It can disturb your sleep and disrupt your marriage and relationships with people you love.

I totally agree! I just "wish" they'd talk more! I guess thats why some of us are taking it as they gave up hope! I sure as hell hope not! I mean this case is heinous and I believe thats why we are all interested in this case as well! I know we all are hoping for JUSTICE! I guess Im just in a rush for answers! =( Its just not our typical murder!

That is what I was wondering about the kitchen scene, if a fight or struggle broke out, wouldn't JS have some type of injuries to his knucles or defensive wounds? or something? Was it released from LE that there was a struggle in the kitchen? Who talked about there being blood in the kitchen? LE or a reliable source? if not then it just goes into the speculation column with many other things!
[/quote]

You would expect some rather serious wounds to Johnny that would have been received as his assailant fought him to regain control, which we know was successful. I read nothing in any of the articles last night, that indicated Johnny fought with anyone. I believe that information came from a close family source.