turn

Well said Methusala. I agree.

Pspence said: I "friended" Tiffany on facebook and was shocked when she responded...we corresponded and she was very polite and claimed from the beginning she had nothing to do with it and I am an optimist who prides myself at being non-judgemental and giving all the benefit of the doubt.

Pspence, I respect you for being nonjudgmental but I fear your gracious and unprejudiced view of TW and her friends might be naive. Of course she is going to claim she had nothing to do with it to a random stranger. Of course she is going to be polite. What would you expect her to do? Confess to you? But how does her polite attitude with strangers square with her real persona she shows with her friends. Here is just one of many violent threats she has made in a public forum: "i swear hoe i will slice ur throat bytch...bytch throw yoself away u fukin trashy ass bytch......cum get up wyt me..ill meet up wyt u.." The same night she was on here so "politely" answering questions, she was threatening beat downs on FB. And considering that she does actually spend her time with (and have children with) violent criminals, I don't think this is high school "play acting" to fit in.

I have a family member that is a thief and a patholigical liar - he can sweet talk with the best of them and make you think he is a perfect gentleman if you don't know better. That is what is so scary about sociopaths and pyschopaths.

turn the damn page!!!!!

(03-14-2011, 08:17 PM)pspence Wrote: Methusula said "pspence, I understand that you are not a personal friend of TW and that you contacted her solely to find out what she knew in connection with the murders, and to invite her onto Mock to answer questions.

b) Have you had personal or professional experience before this contact in dealing with people who speak in this peculiar way; if so, can you tell us about it, and offer your impressions as to what motivates them to speak this way to each other - is it lack of education, [color=#FF6347]YES ignorance, a desire to fit in, YES just like when we were younger and wanted to fit inor what?

I have been a Social Worker with mothers/families on welfare and for people living with HIV disease plus HIV outreach testing (in jails on occasions, alternative clubs, etc) plus other sexually transmitted disease testing outreach ... I have worked with people with substance abuse problems as well as many hardworking wonderful people in diverse populations for over 22 years.

Pspence- I too am a social worker, I worked in child welfare for a little over 2 years before working w/ no to low income pregnant women that were also drug addicts. You've obviously worked hard through out your career to remain so optomistic about ones character. In regards to Tiffany, after looking over her FB & Myspace profiles as well as her mothers, she reminds me of many, many clients that I have previously worked with & I will say that if Tiffany had the upbringing that I assume she had, she's more than capable of manipulating anyone. Children that grow up in homes w/the lifestyles that this group is portraying on FB learn what they see & they learn it fast. I've worked w/4 yr olds that were master manipulators, they could walk the walk & talk the talk. I'm not saying that Tiffany had anything to do w/the crime committed towards Johnny & Lisa, however (and w/all due respect) I find it very naive to assume someone's innocence based off of an email conversation, when you have never met them before, let alone you are not face to face. You are not witnessing body movement, tone of voice, facial expressions, or eye contact- all things that are essential in this situation.

(03-14-2011, 07:25 PM)NightOwl Wrote:

(03-14-2011, 07:16 PM)JsMom Wrote:

(03-14-2011, 07:15 PM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote:

(03-14-2011, 07:08 PM)NightOwl Wrote: Bring back Velveeta soon! Love him.

Little Vel is chasing down leads in the hood right now. He will be home soon....

you seriously crack me up Zero

DITTO!

Thanks JsMom and NightOwl ....Vel is back and told me he met alot of bitches but hasn't found anything new to report on JC and LS. So we are gonna catch some sleep...see you tomorrow...Good Night...

Who knows, hell for all we know both LS and JC could've been up there and that's where a fight initiated.

Personally, I feel this was more drug related (vents removed) than a robbery given the only thing missing was $80 from a jar, WHICH I believe was not cash per se, but foreign currency and/or dinars...plus if they were looking for a safe that didn't exist, i highly doubt they would leave empty handed and would have taken jewelry, and I'm sure LS had a purse but that's not been mentioned.

I'm having an extremely hard time with Maytee's statements all in all. I just cannot understand how someone can be as detailed as she was when giving info to 911 and be so right about the info but completely wrong at the same time...i.e basement (close), LS shirt was off (close pants), cell phones on bodies (close strewn about), car is the driveway (close garage).

I also find it odd on the JVM interview how she stated that after the second time the police left she told her husband, '...we're going to wait until the police are gone and you're going to go back through this house.' Then JVM is thanking her for being honest about to go to break and she pops in with 'yes, and the third time the police was called is when I had my husband prop...' and then it
cuts to a commercial break.

Lastly, on the third 911 call, after knows her son has been murdered, a comment is made to the effect 'if they going to do something, why not just shoot them and leave them alone...' who the hell says that?

Don't get it, someone please try and explain...

[/quote]

I believe that your starting to catch on with her antics of playing around with people. IMO-Your instincts that seems to draw suspicion to her...is simply because the facts speak for them selves. From the very first 9-11 call where she bares a lot of details...through to the last call. Yes, I believe that we are dealing with a psychopath...however I think that this person believes that they are slicker than everone else on this planet. I honestly believe that the sick people responsible will be put away soon. Detectives are not dumb, they are analizing this case and are fully aware of everything that is going on and there will be an arrest. If forensics don't get the killers ...then their stupid inaccurate stories and shady behavior "will" be what turns them in.
The whole world is watching this one....Johnny and Lisa deserve justice!

Quote

Yes, I believe that we are dealing with a psychopath...however I think that this person believes that they are slicker than everone else on this planet. I honestly believe that the sick people responsible will be put away soon.

xxxxxxx

I am not clear on what you are saying here. I am reading that you feel
perhaps the 911 call was made so that the bodies would be found, as
it might be possible all the information at the scene was known by more
than one of the people involved in the calls. (Total of 3 people as I
recall.)

If not, then I am not sure where you are going.

(03-14-2011, 05:58 AM)Duchess Wrote:
Another week begins, I'm trying to remain positive & hopeful we will see resolution in this. Waiting is hard. I fluctuate between thinking the keystone cops are in charge to thinking they are doing the right thing by remaining silent. To be quite honest, I don't know what to think anymore. The only thing I know for sure is that the cops & people who surround this case read here & that means nothing.

we're thinking along the same lines, Duchess

(03-14-2011, 10:34 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: if i may suggest again...
quotes, really long quotes, can be edited for space as i have done above. the entire quoted original post was visible on the same page. no content is missed/lost since people can refer to it.
there are others i didn't have time to edit. but the 5000-word multi-quoted posts are making my eyes bleed.
thanks for your consideration.

Whoops. Sorry.

[...] Detectives are not dumb, they are analizing this case and are fully aware of everything that is going on and there will be an arrest. If forensics don't get the killers ...then their stupid inaccurate stories and shady behavior "will" be what turns them in.
The whole world is watching this one....Johnny and Lisa deserve justice!
[/quote]

Analizing?

I actually think that sums it up appropriately.

(03-14-2011, 03:49 PM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote:

(03-14-2011, 08:59 AM)curious Wrote: Who knows, hell for all we know both LS and JC could've been up there and that's where a fight initiated.

Personally, I feel this was more drug related (vents removed) than a robbery given the only thing missing was $80 from a jar, WHICH I believe was not cash per se, but foreign currency and/or dinars...plus if they were looking for a safe that didn't exist,

Its possible there was foriegn currency and alot of it but the safe may never had existed, only thrown in when JC bragged about the money and wanted his frienemies to figure it was secure beyond their grasp so no reason to burglarize the place. Maybe they had to commit a robbery so they would have access to this safe. IMO- its possible the currency was just hidden and was taken and it may have had great value. So if they believed the safe story then LS and JC being at the house would have had to be in their plans, if they knew there was no safe then they could have tried to ransack the house with JC and LS away and been surprised when they returned too soon before the perps found it.

At this point anything is possible as to the motive these dirt bags had, but one thing is for sure IMO- the perps brought the duck tape, which one has to believe they anticipated tying up LS & JC & killing them...so sad:(

Methusula stated "On the other hand:

in referring to the proposed translation of TW's motto as

"I am loyal to my friends and will not reveal to law enforcement any knowledge I may have of criminal activity by them." you said:

"I think your translation was very accurate."

and in response to the follow-up question as to:

"…how does that motto square with your confidence that she is telling the truth, and the whole truth, surrounding the murders?"

You replied:

"I am an optimist who prides myself at being non-judgemental and giving all the benefit of the doubt."

I doubt whether any crime, not even the first recorded one, was ever solved by applying that formula, no matter how well it may have served you in your profession.

And the LORD said to Cain, Where is Abel your brother?

And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
Genesis 4:9

I think your children's verbal and physical behavior is distinguishable from what we see and read in these pages. The pages repeatedly contain references to perpetrating physical violence and threatening the commission of sundry crimes, things I am confident that your kids did not speak of or nor do.

We are not talking about drug use here, except to the extent that it, or the potential proceeds from its sale, may have been part of the motivator for the crime.

As you say above, many of these kids have rap sheets. They are already undeniably criminals and/or people who prefer the company of criminals

IMHO, they are the logical group from which the murderers came, or through whom the murderers can be found, if and when the truth is told

Agreed on all points.

Truth be Told said:

"I also find it odd on the JVM interview how she stated that after the second time the police left she told her husband, '...we're going to wait until the police are gone and you're going to go back through this house.' Then JVM is thanking her for being honest about to go to break and she pops in with 'yes, and the third time the police was called is when I had my husband prop...' and then it
cuts to a commercial break.

Lastly, on the third 911 call, after knows her son has been murdered, a comment is made to the effect 'if they going to do something, why not just shoot them and leave them alone...' who the hell says that"?

Please clarify what you are thinking. I never heard that on the 3^rd phone call...I just don't believe Maytee said that...could you please clarify?

(03-15-2011, 06:16 AM)pspence Wrote: Truth be Told said:

Lastly, on the third 911 call, after knows her son has been murdered, a comment is made to the effect 'if they going to do something, why not just shoot them and leave them alone...' who the hell says that"?[/color]

Please clarify what you are thinking. I never heard that on the 3^rd phone call...I just don't believe Maytee said that...could you please clarify?

Found on the Nancy Grace transcript here: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1...ng.01.html

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my god. You need to get the police out to Long Acre Lane. My son is in the basement tied up in the house. I just saw him through the window. The police were (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out here earlier and did absolutely nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. All right. We`ll get them out there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Both cell phones are on the ground and we can see the people, him and his girlfriend are tied up in the basement.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK, all right. We`ll get them out there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) cops out here. I told them earlier. And they weren`t listening to me.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Ma`am, you need to calm down. We`ll get them out here. But yelling at me isn`t going to --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re unconscious.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re unconscious, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK, you said they`re unconscious?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. All right.

VASQUEZ-CLARKE: They did not deserve to die. Nobody deserves to die this way. I could see a natural death, but a murder? You`re going to tie somebody up and put bags over their head, face and around?

CLARKE: They`re going to do something -- why don`t you just shoot them and leave them alone? They made them suffer. They made them suffer and lose their --

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

LV: At this point anything is possible as to the motive these dirt bags had, but one thing is for sure IMO- the perps brought the duck tape, which one has to believe they anticipated tying up LS & JC & killing them...so sad.




whether they brought the duct tape or not, that does not prove intent to murder . it may show intent to bind/restrain.

(03-15-2011, 07:38 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: LV: At this point anything is possible as to the motive these dirt bags had, but one thing is for sure IMO- the perps brought the duck tape, which one has to believe they anticipated tying up LS & JC & killing them...so sad.

whether they brought the duct tape or not, that does not prove intent to murder . it may show intent to bind/restrain.

I know by your posts that you, LC, are of the opinion that the intent was not murder. What has crossed my mind is that the perps may have been a mixed group with varying intentions and motives.

I think it may play out that people close to LS/JC were approached as contacts by those intending to kill LS/JC, proposing robbery but intending murder. Conversely, perhaps word got out that a robbery was to take place by those known to LS/JC and the murderers proposed tagging along with murder as their intent. Different agendas within the group of perpetrators.

(03-15-2011, 01:26 AM)AriGold Wrote:

Quote:[...] Detectives are not dumb, they are analizing this case and are fully aware of everything that is going on and there will be an arrest. If forensics don't get the killers ...then their stupid inaccurate stories and shady behavior "will" be what turns them in.
The whole world is watching this one....Johnny and Lisa deserve justice!

Analizing?

I actually think that sums it up appropriately.

Ha. Agreed.

Esbee, I never noticed that quote before in the 911 call...please further explain what you are implying...

"VASQUEZ-CLARKE: They did not deserve to die. Nobody deserves to die this way. I could see a natural death, but a murder? You`re going to tie somebody up and put bags over their head, face and around?

CLARKE: They`re going to do something -- why don`t you just shoot them and leave them alone? They made them suffer. They made them suffer and lose their --

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

Holy Smokes!

(03-15-2011, 11:52 AM)pspence Wrote: Esbee, I never noticed that quote before in the 911 call...please further explain what you are implying...

"VASQUEZ-CLARKE: They did not deserve to die. Nobody deserves to die this way. I could see a natural death, but a murder? You`re going to tie somebody up and put bags over their head, face and around?

CLARKE: They`re going to do something -- why don`t you just shoot them and leave them alone? They made them suffer. They made them suffer and lose their --

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

I'm not implying anything. I'm just showing you the source of the quote.