(08-26-2011, 06:16 PM)thekid65 Wrote: So, you're talking out your ass. Based on some type of perception. Understood.

I challenge you to relate from personal experience that it's just as easy nowadays to declare a chapter 13 bankruptcy, as it was 10 years ago.

Sorry to hear your life got so fucked-up you needed to declare bankruptcy.

I'm not a credit rating agency, dumbshit! I'm a fucking accountant. I strictly work with ratios and . . . just like credit ratings, they too, are guidelines.

Chapter 13 . . . you gotta be kidding! It's 7 now days. Hell . . . creditors don't even show up to the 341 meeting. Trustees schedules 15 minutes for each petitioner. It's a fucking cattle call!

How do I know what I'm talking about? My clients have debtors who file bankruptcy to avoid paying.

My job, since attorneys charge a minimum of $2,000 grand just to review the petition is to 'audit' the P & L Statements accompanying the petition, review the Fed Tax Returns and review the list of creditors.

I've sat in on so many 341s and Rule 2004 exams I could write a book on every dumbass explanation for errors within the petition and financials. And you know what? The trustees don't give a shit!

They look for one thing . . . the means test. Period.

And how do I know about the credit scores being elevated so quickly? Because I have assisted my clients in proving to court that the debtor committed fraud, up to a year after discharge.

And since the douchebag is a judgment debtor, my client can legally run a credit check on the sonofabitch.

Guess what, princess? The three times it was done for three different debtors, their credit scores (from the major reporting agencies) were better than before they filed for bankruptcy!

Now tell me . . . besides your one trip to the dance, how much fucking experience do you have in this subject?

(08-26-2011, 06:54 PM)Duchess Wrote:

Poor little boy. That's very sad.

I'd get in a lot of trouble if I placed an ad that said, I'll take your kid if you don't want him.

It's tempting though, right? But don't use your avatar in the ad, then you might get into a little trouble.

I hope this dad doesn't kill himself. He seems to be living large for the time being. Morro Bay and Carmel California or very exclusive resort type locations.

The mom also uses the name "Splitstoesser", for real? I hope that's not a chosen alias.

(08-25-2011, 07:51 PM)Maggot Wrote: I guess it all depends how much you value paper money.

What he said.

I don't place a great deal of value on paper money. I am sorry I don't. I know I need it to pay bills etc. I work. But where I am being sneaky and cunning to get a better deal, I wouldn't want any part of that. Whether it's getting a job promotion or a better house. I am happy with what I have got, if i was meant to have more, i would have it.

thekid65 I am not sure of the laws in US. But, can't you sue them if they are biaised against you in turning down an application for a loan if you were declared bankrupt and it is later than a certain time period?

Over here, I think its five years.

(08-26-2011, 07:07 PM)BlueTiki Wrote:

(08-26-2011, 06:16 PM)thekid65 Wrote: So, you're talking out your ass. Based on some type of perception. Understood.

I challenge you to relate from personal experience that it's just as easy nowadays to declare a chapter 13 bankruptcy, as it was 10 years ago.

Sorry to hear your life got so fucked-up you needed to declare bankruptcy.

I'm not a credit rating agency, dumbshit! I'm a fucking accountant. I strictly work with ratios and . . . just like credit ratings, they too, are guidelines.

Chapter 13 . . . you gotta be kidding! It's 7 now days. Hell . . . creditors don't even show up to the 341 meeting. Trustees schedules 15 minutes for each petitioner. It's a fucking cattle call!

How do I know what I'm talking about? My clients have debtors who file bankruptcy to avoid paying.

My job, since attorneys charge a minimum of $2,000 grand just to review the petition is to 'audit' the P & L Statements accompanying the petition, review the Fed Tax Returns and review the list of creditors.

I've sat in on so many 341s and Rule 2004 exams I could write a book on every dumbass explanation for errors within the petition and financials. And you know what? The trustees don't give a shit!

They look for one thing . . . the means test. Period.

And how do I know about the credit scores being elevated so quickly? Because I have assisted my clients in proving to court that the debtor committed fraud, up to a year after discharge.

And since the douchebag is a judgment debtor, my client can legally run a credit check on the sonofabitch.

Guess what, princess? The three times it was done for three different debtors, their credit scores (from the major reporting agencies) were better than before they filed for bankruptcy!

Now tell me . . . besides your one trip to the dance, how much fucking experience do you have in this subject?

Don't be sorry, I caused my own problems...and dealt with them accordingly. My creditors back then.,,also did not show up at my hearing. And I've had 1..to what seems to be your zero. All you look at are numbers...and your basing your comments on 3 of your clients experiences.

You're a fucking bean counter. You have no experience in the courts as it relates to bankruptcy hearings, nor does it sound like you've ever "been there, and done that".

Gee, out of the 100's of thousands of folks that have filed for bankruptcy over each year...you're making your statements based on 3. Nice going. Glad you don't deal with statistics...or do you? (shudder). Couldnt quite cut it as an actuary?

And, as I'm willing to admit my mistakes, I had the chapter 7 (total debt discharge) and chapter 13 (being able to repay/re-organize some of your debts..house, car, etc) bankruptcies reversed in my pea-brain..which makes my point. Chapter 7 is a lot harder to do nowadays then when I filed. Simple as that. Of course creditors arent going to show up at a chapter 7...they'll write it off. But at a chapter 13, they'll probably show (depending on the amount of $$ involved) in order to get a re-structured payment.

Also, when you talk about "clients running a credit check". You're obviously not talking about the average Joe who bit off more than he can chew, or had overwhelming medical bills, got divorced, etc, etc...you're talking about someone/business who needs to run a credit check..something the average guy never has to do.

You have no clue...I'm talking about Joe Blow (read the fucking OP, we're discussing a homeowner..nothing more) with my statements here...not businesses that can afford a 2k/hour attorney. Get in touch with the real world, willya?

I don't have any debt, except for about $60,000 in phone book advertising. We were able to pay for it in past years, but not now. I have one phone book company taking me to court for $9,000 which was from over 5 years ago and they still except my cash for the current ad so I think there is some kind of statue of limitations there.

My husband got suckered into taking big ads out in several different books when a small one would have probally worked just as well and now the business is not making the money like it was. I don't know if I should file bankruptcy or not to get out of it. It certainly wouldn't hurt my feelings any to screw those cocksuckers over.

Call them and tell them you are filing for a reorganization and would they accept ¹⁄₃ payment as paid in full. Beg borrow and steal the money and get them off your backs.

(08-26-2011, 07:57 PM)thekid65 Wrote: Also, when you talk about "clients running a credit check". You're obviously not talking about the average Joe who bit off more than he can chew, or had overwhelming medical bills, got divorced, etc, etc...you're talking about someone/business who needs to run a credit check..something the average guy never has to do.

You have no clue...I'm talking about Joe Blow (read the fucking OP, we're discussing a homeowner..nothing more) with my statements here...not businesses that can afford a 2k/hour attorney. Get in touch with the real world, willya?

Dumbshit.

It's the "Joe Blow" or their sham LLCs that owe my clients money. And no, douche, it's not about medical, loss of job or divorce. It's that they lived beyond their means and now don't want to pay the fiddler.

Over twenty bankruptcies went uncontested. Not all are pursued. Just the lying deadbeats . . . the "Joe Blows".

I've filed six amicus briefs in Federal Court. That's six more than you. I'll forget more about bankruptcy than you'll ever learn.

The fact that you confused 7 and 13 tells me quite a bit. You probably think reaffirmation of debt only applies to 13.

You have no idea the number of filings for personal bankruptcy before or after the 2005 rules went into effect, do you?

You have no idea how the means test plays into the whole equation, do you?

You be sure and get back to me with those stats re: bankruptcy filings over the past 15 years. If it's so difficult now, I guess we'd expect to see a dramatic decrease. Heaven forbid . . . NEVER an increase! That couldn't be possible!

While you're at it, I'm sure the effect of bankruptcy on credit scores is out there, too.

Might wanna check the same for short sales and foreclosures.

If you own a house outright is it better now to upgrade? Would the tradeoff be worth it? Trading spaces?

(08-26-2011, 09:01 PM)Maggot Wrote: If you own a house outright is it better now to upgrade? Would the tradeoff be worth it? Trading spaces?

NOOOOOO! Stay.

(08-26-2011, 08:43 PM)BlueTiki Wrote: Might wanna check the same for short sales and foreclosures.

Will a short sale fuck you up for long?

(08-26-2011, 07:24 PM)aussiefriend Wrote:

(08-25-2011, 07:51 PM)Maggot Wrote: I guess it all depends how much you value paper money.

What he said.

I don't place a great deal of value on paper money. I am sorry I don't. I know I need it to pay bills etc. I work. But where I am being sneaky and cunning to get a better deal, I wouldn't want any part of that. Whether it's getting a job promotion or a better house. I am happy with what I have got, if i was meant to have more, i would have it.

I'm of the same mindset. I can see it being smart if you're only concerned about personal gain and okay with defaulting on personal responsibility. It wouldn't be worth it to me to make that trade-off. But, I completely understand someone not wanting to pay what they consider full price for a house that has declined in its worth, if that means new people will be bringing a less safe environment to the neighborhood. That too is shitty.

After reading everyone's input, I guess I'm still in the same place. It's shitty and it can be smart, depending on your value system. I am shitty at times, but usually due to ignorance rather than choice. JMO...

(08-26-2011, 09:06 PM)Cracker Wrote:

(08-26-2011, 08:43 PM)BlueTiki Wrote: Might wanna check the same for short sales and foreclosures.

Will a short sale fuck you up for long?

A friend of mine and his wife accepted jobs in Seattle. Purchased a $500K, 3 bedroom before the bubble.

Value at the time of the move . . . $220K. Approved for a short sale - 60 point credit hit.

One year later, credit score 20 points higher than before the short sale.

FYI - if your credit score is high, the hit is usually greater. Theirs was 790 at the time. I would have guessed at least 100 points, minimum.

Go figure.

Kid won't believe any of this.

He knows things.

(08-26-2011, 09:51 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I'm of the same mindset. I can see it being smart if you're only concerned about personal gain and okay with defaulting on personal responsibility. It wouldn't be worth it to me to make that trade-off. But, I completely understand someone not wanting to pay what they consider full price for a house that has declined in its worth, if that means new people will be bringing a less safe environment to the neighborhood. That too is shitty.

After reading everyone's input, I guess I'm still in the same place. It's shitty and it can be smart, depending on your value system. I am shitty at times, but usually due to ignorance rather than choice. JMO...

I'm not sure it is completely defaulting because the bank DOES get the house back. If the banks overvalued the homes with their own appraisers, tough shit, they can take the hit. They shouldn't have lent money to people who couldn't afford it, shouldn't have financed builders to build a ton of new homes, and shouldn't have set the values as high as possible to get more money. I don't feel sorry for the banks. Dishonesty and shoddy practice leads to bad results. If you keep your house in decent shape, I can't see where making the bank take it back, along with keeping all the money you did pay on it, is such a bad deal. It is only bad for them if they overvalued the property. Why should an honest family eat that loss? That is fucked up thinking. The banks aren't people, they are financial institutions that manufacture fake money.

Do you see how sold on the idea you are that the banks are the victims and that it is wrong to expect an honest, fair deal? Don't be sheepies.

If you let your house go into foreclosure and move in to government housing and file bankruptcy, that is totally different.

If you screw back the institution that screwed you, good for you. You think the banks give a shit whether you have a house or not? They don't.

(08-26-2011, 10:20 PM)Cracker Wrote:

(08-26-2011, 09:51 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I'm of the same mindset. I can see it being smart if you're only concerned about personal gain and okay with defaulting on personal responsibility. It wouldn't be worth it to me to make that trade-off. But, I completely understand someone not wanting to pay what they consider full price for a house that has declined in its worth, if that means new people will be bringing a less safe environment to the neighborhood. That too is shitty.

After reading everyone's input, I guess I'm still in the same place. It's shitty and it can be smart, depending on your value system. I am shitty at times, but usually due to ignorance rather than choice. JMO...

I'm not sure it is completely defaulting because the bank DOES get the house back. If the banks overvalued the homes with their own appraisers, tough shit, they can take the hit. They shouldn't have lent money to people who couldn't afford it, shouldn't have financed builders to build a ton of new homes, and shouldn't have set the values as high as possible to get more money. I don't feel sorry for the banks. Dishonesty and shoddy practice leads to bad results. If you keep your house in decent shape, I can't see where making the bank take it back, along with keeping all the money you did pay on it, is such a bad deal. It is only bad for them if they overvalued the property. Why should an honest family eat that loss? That is fucked up thinking. The banks aren't people, they are financial institutions that manufacture fake money.

Do you see how sold on the idea you are that the banks are the victims and that it is wrong to expect an honest, fair deal? Don't be sheepies.

If you let your house go into foreclosure and move in to government housing and file bankruptcy, that is totally different.

If you screw back the institution that screwed you, good for you. You think the banks give a shit whether you have a house or not? They don't.

I don't think the banks are the victims. I was talking about "defaulting" on personal responsibilities. I didn't buy what I couldn't afford and I made what was a smart decision for me at the time. Paying rent and 48% income tax with few significant write-offs wasn't a good long term plan. If I'd been able to predict the massive economic downfall, I would have waited before taking on a mortgage commitment. I don't have children like you do, so I respect that you have more factors than I to consider regarding the living environment.

It's tempting to say "fuck it" and let the house foreclose or do what your co-worker is doing. But, it's in my nature to work harder, cut back wherever possible, and try to ride it out. Not for the bank, for myself. I think that may be a sheeple attitude and old school for my age, but I know I will find a solution long before it gets to the point where I'm up shit's creek without a paddle. I don't let myself sink, but I don't jump ship quickly either.

Short sale is a consideration, if I need to make a move in the future. Renting out part of my house is another option I've considered (which I would loathe, but we do what we have to do).

(08-26-2011, 10:44 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Renting out part of my house is another option I've considered (which I would loathe, but we do what we have to do).

*shudders*

I'm not in financial straits. I would thank God for that, but I didn't get a check in the mail from The Bank of Christ. hahaha The lady I work with isn't in financial straits, either, they just don't like their neighborhood now.

I try to be loving and accepting, but the big-headed kids across the street are about all I'm willing to deal with. I think I would do what I had to do if my neighborhood became unsafe. I started thinking about how miserable it must be to be worried about someone breaking into your house while you are at work or someone stealing your car out of your own driveway or stealing your air conditioning unit while you are on vacation. I couldn't be happy living in constant worry like that. Hell, I couldn't be happy if I had to hear the boom, boom, boom from some jerk's woofers driving around all night.

I'm such an uptight white cracker. haha

(08-26-2011, 10:09 PM)BlueTiki Wrote: A friend of mine and his wife accepted jobs in Seattle. Purchased a $500K, 3 bedroom before the bubble.

Value at the time of the move . . . $220K. Approved for a short sale - 60 point credit hit.

Hmmm. Which is worse? A hundred points knocked off your credit score OR owing $280K for nothing? Hmmm. Doesn't take a genius.

Move to Georgia. $500K buys a mansion in the sticks or a very nice bungalow in an oceanside golf enclave.

(08-26-2011, 10:54 PM)Cracker Wrote:

(08-26-2011, 10:44 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Renting out part of my house is another option I've considered (which I would loathe, but we do what we have to do).

*shudders*

I'm not in financial straits. I would thank God for that, but I didn't get a check in the mail from The Bank of Christ. hahaha The lady I work with isn't in financial straits, either, they just don't like their neighborhood now.

I try to be loving and accepting, but the big-headed kids across the street are about all I'm willing to deal with. I think I would do what I had to do if my neighborhood became unsafe. I started thinking about how miserable it must be to be worried about someone breaking into your house while you are at work or someone stealing your car out of your own driveway or stealing your air conditioning unit while you are on vacation. I couldn't be happy living in constant worry like that. Hell, I couldn't be happy if I had to hear the boom, boom, boom from some jerk's woofers driving around all night.

I'm such an uptight white cracker. haha

I would do what I had to do if my neighborhood became unsafe too. Hell, I live in the city and I consider it safe, but the truth is that I make it safe for myself. It's much easier to do that when it's only me and I live on a busy street with lots of people coming and going all the time. Not so private, but hard for a fucker to break in unnoticed and you can't get to the back of the house from the street.

If I had children or if my mom came to live with me and I had to worry about my family's safety within the house or in the neighborhood, I'd do whatever it took to get the hell out of dodge. No hesitation.

(08-26-2011, 10:44 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: It's tempting to say "fuck it" and let the house foreclose or do what your co-worker is doing. But, it's in my nature to work harder, cut back wherever possible, and try to ride it out. Not for the bank, for myself. I think that may be a sheeple attitude and old school for my age, but I know I will find a solution long before it gets to the point where I'm up shit's creek without a paddle. I don't let myself sink, but I don't jump ship quickly either.

Integrity.

Hang on to it . . . seems like there's not much of it around, anymore.

Rationalization has taken its place.

Thanks Tiki. When you reach the point where you can rationalize devaluing your integrity, you're screwed. Can't buy it back. Imo.