(01-02-2012, 11:52 PM)cladking Wrote: Other schools are not the kind of quality they were 100 years ago.

Proof please. While the "quality" might have been better 100 years ago, please don't tell me that kids were regularly taking calculus in highschool back then. I don't believe it. The standards are much higher today. Too high IMO. I think there ought to be more vocational opportunities in school.

(01-03-2012, 12:00 AM)username Wrote: The question is...do you give poor people some pass. Forget race..what about economics? And oh, are black people more likely to be poor where you live? I don't give people a pass because of their skin color but yeah, I think if you were born poor, your parents were poor, you started out from SHIT circumstances...I think you have a harder time making a success of your life. Not easy going from dirt poor to graduating from a respected 4 year college. Common sense.

The economic stability of a family is a reflection of education. People don't get that. Education isn't just about learning, it is also about motivation and following through.

I come from poverty. It is more difficult but hardly impossible. If the excuses stop, there isn't an excuse. That is a hard truth. If someone wants an education in this country, it is pretty easy to attain. It just takes some effot.

(01-03-2012, 12:06 AM)username Wrote:

(01-02-2012, 11:52 PM)cladking Wrote: Other schools are not the kind of quality they were 100 years ago.

Proof please. While the "quality" might have been better 100 years ago, please don't tell me that kids were regularly taking calculus in highschool back then. I don't believe it. The standards are much higher today. Too high IMO. I think there ought to be more vocational opportunities in school.

The tards had special schools and didn't sit in the same room with the "regular" kids. THAT is the difference. Public schools have to deal with the dumbasses at the same time they are trying to educate the other kids. You can thank the parents of special education/emotionally fucked up kids for that.

(01-03-2012, 12:04 AM)cladking Wrote: But the fact remains that if you put a thousand men in a trench and start blowing them apart with artillary and picking them off with rifle shot a certain percentage of the survivors will get shell shock. It's still their fault for not being stronger but they stillhave shell shock. If you kill enough little brothers or beloved aunts then even those who are trying the hardest will capitulate.

clad, they kill each other. It isn't middle class America going to the ghetto and killing folks. They are doing it to themselves. They KNOW they are doing it to themselves. Hence the PSA by Samuel L. Jackson. They have to stop it themselves. But that isn't happening because many people don't value their families because they haven't had to sacrifice for them, we pay them to sit at home and make more. If they are really stupid, we give them extra money in the form of SSDI. While there are good families stuck in the ghetto, most aren't. You can't blame the media for any real thing in life, not if you want a good effect. Nobody can do it for them. THEY have to do it. As long as they are excused from participating in their own fate, they will take the pass and it will be business as usual.

(01-03-2012, 12:11 AM)Cracker Wrote:

(01-03-2012, 12:06 AM)username Wrote:

(01-02-2012, 11:52 PM)cladking Wrote: Other schools are not the kind of quality they were 100 years ago.

Proof please. While the "quality" might have been better 100 years ago, please don't tell me that kids were regularly taking calculus in highschool back then. I don't believe it. The standards are much higher today. Too high IMO. I think there ought to be more vocational opportunities in school.

The tards had special schools and didn't sit in the same room with the "regular" kids. THAT is the difference. Public schools have to deal with the dumbasses at the same time they are trying to educate the other kids. You can thank the parents of special education/emotionally fucked up kids for that.

No child left behind and all that but I still think standards are higher than just mastering the three R's back in the olden days. That's the challenge for the schools. They have to raise the scores for the special education/emotionally fucked up kids (and ESL learners) but the standards for the rest of the kids keep getting raised to. With no money! It's fucked up.

If my kids want to attend a UC school in California....I can't even begin to list the g.p.a. requirements and extra cirricular activities. :face palm: It's ridiculous.

(01-03-2012, 12:18 AM)username Wrote: If my kids want to attend a UC school in California....I can't even begin to list the g.p.a. requirements and extra cirricular activities. :face palm: It's ridiculous.

Start the portfolio now. Public service is a must. Scan everything and store it in a cloud until they need it.

Maybe dress your kids in last year's clothes and take them down to the park to get a few pics with the Occupy folks. That should finance a semester or two.

I really hope people read my bullshit, curse me, then try to prove me wrong. That would be worthwhile.

We need to shock people into behaving because they are so jaded. If we said, "No benefits for convicted felons or failing students" the crime rate would drop instantly and the graduation rate would rise conversely.

Lowered Expecations:

EEOC: High school diploma requirement might violate Americans with Disabilities Act
By Dave Boyer
-
The Washington Times
Sunday, January 1, 2012

Employers are facing more uncertainty in the wake of a letter from the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission warning them that requiring a high school diploma from a job applicant might violate the Americans with Disabilities Act.

The development also has some wondering whether the agency’s advice will result in an educational backlash by creating less of an incentive for some high school students to graduate.

The “informal discussion letter” from the EEOC said an employer’s requirement of a high school diploma, long a standard criterion for screening potential employees, must be “job-related for the position in question and consistent with business necessity.” The letter was posted on the commission’s website on Dec. 2.

Employers could run afoul of the ADA if their requirement of a high school diploma “‘screens out’ an individual who is unable to graduate because of a learning disability that meets the ADA’s definition of ‘disability,’” the EEOC explained.

The commission’s advice, which does not carry the force of law, is raising alarms among employment-law professionals, who say it could carry far-reaching implications for businesses.

Maria Greco Danaher, a lawyer with the labor and employment law firm Ogletree Deakins, said the EEOC letter means that employers must determine whether job applicants whose learning disabilities kept them from obtaining diplomas can perform the essential job functions, with or without reasonable accommodation. She said the development is “worthy of notice” for employers.

“While an employer is not required to ‘prefer’ a learning-disabled applicant over other applicants with more extensive qualifications, it is clear that the EEOC is informing employers that disabled individuals cannot be excluded from consideration for employment based upon artificial barriers in the form of inflexible qualification standards,” she wrote in a blog post.

Not all children have special needs/behavior problems because of their parents. Fact.

(01-03-2012, 01:09 AM)JsMom Wrote: Not all children have special needs/behavior problems because of their parents. Fact.

Who said that? The point was having all kids in the same classrooms whether they have the same needs or not.

You don't think that has a negative effect on overall learning?

Emotional problems DO come from home. Where else?

Honestly I do thinnk all children no matter what should be in the same classrooms. JMO As far as behavior problems...my sons has behavioral problems and they do not stem from home. It stems from what he had to go through at a young age. I am by no means saying ALL children are the same. I always felt bad for the under dogs when I was in school.

whats your take on mental disabilities and learning disabilities?

(01-03-2012, 01:19 AM)JsMom Wrote: Honestly I do thinnk all children no matter what should be in the same classrooms.

Why? Do you have a good reason for it that isn't harmful for a majority of the kids in the classroom?

(01-03-2012, 01:19 AM)JsMom Wrote: As far as behavior problems...my sons has behavioral problems and they do not stem from home. It stems from what he had to go through at a young age.

That's home. I'm not going to pick on you about it because it is a sad situation, but it's a home situation.

That's where a majority of kids develop emotional problems. Sometimes other kids are to blame, but it is just because THOSE kids have emotional problems. It is a home issue. And a sad one because most people don't realize the cure to a home problem takes place in the home. Schools try to help, but that is really out of their league. They can try to help kids assimilate, but the problem is still the problem until something changes at home. That's where kids live.

(01-03-2012, 01:19 AM)JsMom Wrote: I always felt bad for the under dogs when I was in school.

That doesn't help anyone. Schools are for education. If a few children make it harder for everyone else to learn, that isn't cool. I don't know your personal situation, and I don't want to know, but it is something to think about.

My kid has no idea why some of the kids in the class act like they do. We don't have issues like that, nor do I want issues like that around my kid. Do all kids have rights? Or just the ones with issues?

(01-03-2012, 01:26 AM)JsMom Wrote: whats your take on mental disabilities and learning disabilities?

Unless they are organic in nature, most emotional and educational gaps are the products of upbringing/home situations. Most intellectual disabilities in America are NOT organic in nature but are caused by not having needs met in early childhood. Most Intellectually Disabled kids in this country are the product of Intellectually Disabled parents. Sad truth. Organic retardation is a different matter. Some cases can't be helped, but some have to do with protein in the diet.

America has tried the Bright Start pre-k thing for kids with needs for about 20 years now with NO lasting gains, because it is a home problem in most cases. If it is a true organic problem, there is only limited help that can be given because there is a limit to ability. The place to get help is in a special setting where individual needs are met. The parents don't seem to care if their kids learn enough to survive as adults, they just want their kid in the same room as the other kids, not matter if it helps or not. That is wrong. Some people are different, we need to deal with it differently.

Learning disabilities can be overcome, super low IQ cannot. After about 5^th grade, no real gaps can be closed intellectually. I can site literature to attest to this. Because parents of these kids don't participate in education too much, they miss the chance to fix what they screwed up. Then they blame the school.

Some kids interrupt instruction every single day. It's okay once or twice, but using up a good portion of learning time for dysfunction is wrong. Why should everybody else get less education because of one or two kids in a room? How is that fair or right? I don't understand why we let this go on in public schools. Well, I do, the parents of special needs students bitched until state and federal laws were changed. Now everybody is screwed.

It is a matter of the one versus the many. We lower our standards to match the lowest achievers. Schools are trying to fix that now with advanced content classes, but it is too late after elementary school. Every child lost out on stuff and they don't even know. We fucked them so somebody would feel better about the mistakes they made with their own child. (That wasn't directed at you and your situation, just in general.)

They used to have conduct disorder rooms for the kids who couldn't sit down and behave. The parents of the brats bitched because their kids were in the room with other brats. You have to laugh about that. It's okay for someone to have a heathen child, but don't you dare make the heathen deal with other kids who behave the same way. Nooo, put them in the room to bother everybody else. That makes perfect sense.

Emotional problems are a different animal. Some kids don't display any behaviors that interrupt instruction, so they are fine in the same rooms. A kid who stabs the teacher and other kids is probably better off in a room with a specialist that wants to deal with that all day. We are putting dangerous kids in the same rooms with everybody else. That is wrong, but most parents don't know because of privacy laws. First kid that stabs my kid is getting his/her ass kicked. (Actually, they won't get anything but a chat with the counselor and maybe a new pencil so they can stab someone else.)

The last year I worked with kids, I had more on probation than the local watering hole on a Friday night. I get stopped by adults on the street often who thank me. I always wish I could have done more, but my hands were tied. The shits all ended up in jail/prison/Just Busted magazine and the kids who were headed in the right direction are still doing well as grown people. Could I have done more if I didn't have to deal with the shits? I will never know. Real life isn't like the movies.

The part nobody realizes is that the parents of kids who aren't academically inclined fucked themselves by having new laws passed/old laws changed. The money it took to institute that killed a huge portion of the vocational education budget so now their kids no longer receive the job training they could have in the past. There are plenty of jobs out there for skilled workers, even right now. There just aren't workers to fill the jobs so they will most likely go overseas. Good job, folks!

Enough post whoring. All in the past. My last one is a smarty, so I don't have to deal with much of this besides hearing crazy stories from school.

You truly made some great points. I do understand and agree. Now, at my sons school they have several different classes such as Gifted classes, Resource, Special Ed, and Behavioral. Yes my son happens to be in the behavioral class until we ?can work through these issues. Im not perfect or the smartest parent alive but I do take time with my son. I redirect him when he is out of control. My son has a very high IQ. These people tried telling me thats why my son has behavioral problems. Im not seeing that? They say he dont know how to channel his knowledge. Whats your take on that? I think that's bs! I truly believe it stems from the accident. I also agree if a child has any kind of learning disability that yes they should be in a special class. I would not want my child to hender any other childs education because his issue. Cracker, I honestly appreciate your take on this.

(01-03-2012, 03:07 AM)Cracker Wrote: They used to have conduct disorder rooms for the kids who couldn't sit down and behave. The parents of the brats bitched because their kids were in the room with other brats. You have to laugh about that. It's okay for someone to have a heathen child, but don't you dare make the heathen deal with other kids who behave the same way. Nooo, put them in the room to bother everybody else. That makes perfect sense.*** I have seen that shit myself and I agree. They should NOT be in the regular classroom to disrupt the other children. In my situation, I would not let my son disrupt the regular class and that is why he is in a behavioral class. The parents who Bitch need to guide their child and help them until they can be put in the regular room without disruptions.

Emotional problems are a different animal. Some kids don't display any behaviors that interrupt instruction, so they are fine in the same rooms. A kid who stabs the teacher and other kids is probably better off in a room with a specialist that wants to deal with that all day. We are putting dangerous kids in the same rooms with everybody else. That is wrong, but most parents don't know because of privacy laws. First kid that stabs my kid is getting his/her ass kicked. (Actually, they won't get anything but a chat with the counselor and maybe a new pencil so they can stab someone else.) *** I understand. I do not blame you at all. I feel the same way but in my situation he has to be around the other behavioral kids. Its a touchy subject for me.

The last year I worked with kids, I had more on probation than the local watering hole on a Friday night. I get stopped by adults on the street often who thank me. I always wish I could have done more, but my hands were tied. The shits all ended up in jail/prison/Just Busted magazine and the kids who were headed in the right direction are still doing well as grown people. Could I have done more if I didn't have to deal with the shits? I will never know. Real life isn't like the movies.

Thanks for your opinion. I understand what your saying. I agree with you. all I can do is HELP my own son make it through this and get him on a regular path. We are getting there. I just wish there was more parents like us Whom do care. I have seen alot out of the kids in the behavior class and I KNOW these poor kids have a SHITTY home life. It saddens me Deeply. Nothing I can do. I have my own to focus on. Well Thanks again for your wit and input.

(01-03-2012, 12:25 AM)Cracker Wrote: Maybe dress your kids in last year's clothes and take them down to the park to get a few pics with the Occupy folks. That should finance a semester or two.

(01-03-2012, 12:38 AM)Cracker Wrote: Lowered Expecations:

EEOC: High school diploma requirement might violate Americans with Disabilities Act

Oh puleeeze!!