Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Demjanjuk...the last nazi war crimes trial
#1
(CNN) -- John Demjanjuk was found guilty Thursday of involvement in the murder of tens of thousands of Jews by a court in Germany, capping a 30-year international legal saga over whether he was a Nazi camp guard during World War II.

He was sentenced to five years in prison, the court told CNN. But he was freed soon after, pending appeal, a source close to the court told CNN. The court did not consider him a flight risk because he is not a citizen of any country and cannot leave Germany, the source said.

German prosecutors accused the 91-year-old former Ohio auto worker of being a guard at the notorious Nazi death camp of Sobibor in Poland. He was charged with being an accessory to about 27,900 murders.

Prosecutors had asked for a sentence of six years in what is likely the last major Nazi war crimes trial in Germany.

Demjanjuk declined to address the court Thursday before the verdict was handed down, German press reports said.

He did not speak once during the trial, the German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung reported.

Jewish groups hailed the verdict soon after it was announced.

Israel's Holocaust museum, Yad Vashem, said the trial and ruling showed there was no statute of limitations for the crimes of the Holocaust.

"While no trial can bring back those that were murdered, holding those responsible to justice has an important moral and educational role in society," museum chairman Avner Shalev said.

"The conviction today of Demjanjuk underscores the fact that even though the policies of the 'Final Solution' -- the systematic murder of 6 million European Jews -- were set and carried out by the German Nazi regime, the murder could not have taken place without the participation of myriads of Europeans on many levels. Their role was also criminal," he added.

"Despite endless and sometimes dubious attempts by Mr. Demjanjuk's defense to discredit this trial, the judges have now handed down a clear verdict," said Ronald Lauder, president of the World Jewish Congress.

"Although he did not cooperate with the court in any way or admit remorse, Mr. Demjanjuk received a fair trial and a mild sentence, considering his actions at Sobibor," Lauder added.

Demjanjuk's defense team argued that he was a prisoner of war who was forced to do what the Nazis wanted.

The Munich state prosecutor brought the charges against Demjanjuk for his alleged role at Sobibor, where the Nazis and their sympathizers killed at least 167,000 people, according to the U.S Holocaust Memorial Museum.

His trial opened in November 2009, after he was stripped of United States citizenship and deported to Germany. It took a year longer than expected.

The accusations against Demjanjuk date to the late 1970s, when the U.S. Justice Department accused him of being a Nazi guard known as "Ivan the Terrible." His U.S. citizenship was revoked in 1981, and he was extradited to Israel in 1986.

Demjanjuk was convicted in an Israeli court in 1988 and sentenced to death, but that conviction was overturned in 1993 amid evidence that someone else was "Ivan the Terrible."

A U.S. federal court restored Demjanjuk's citizenship, ruling the government withheld evidence supporting his case.

But his citizenship was revoked again in 2002 after a federal judge ruled that his 1952 entry into the United States was illegal because he hid his past as a Nazi guard.

Demjanjuk lost a U.S. Supreme Court case against his deportation. His lawyers had asked the high court to consider their claims that he was too ill and frail to be sent overseas. They also raised human rights and other legal issues.

After decades spent fighting accusations that he was a Nazi camp guard, Demjanjuk changed his line of defense when the Munich trial opened 18 months ago.

The native Ukrainian was a prisoner of war during the conflict, and would have been killed had he not done what the Nazis ordered, his defense team argued.

Defense attorney Ulrich Busch said when the trial began that the court was imposing a "moral and judicial double standard."

The guards forced to help the Nazis were "victims, not culprits -- survivors, not murderers," Busch said.

Higher-ranking German SS officers in a similar situation have been found not guilty of war crimes, the defense argued.

About 30 relatives of victims joined the prosecution case. In Germany, it is possible for the families to join the prosecution case as co-plaintiffs, representing named individuals who died in the death camps.

There are very few remaining survivors of Sobibor.

Demjanjuk's defenders say he was a Soviet prisoner of war sent to the Trawniki concentration camp, where Nazis trained prisoners to assist with the extermination of about 2 million Jews in occupied Poland. Those prisoners of war had no choice but to assist, the defense said.

The German court originally accused him of complicity in about 29,000 murders. The prosecutor's office said it revised the number to about 27,900 murders because some of those who had allegedly died in the camp when Demjanjuk was there were already dead during the transport to Sobibor.


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
                       
   

















































Reply
#2
I recall his family giving interviews that he was never there.
Reply
#3


During that period of time did people have a choice on whether to be a guard? Were they allowed to decline the position?
[Image: Zy3rKpW.png]
Reply
#4
Were they allowed to decline the position?


decline and die. you can go to the gas chamber too. but many who did not decline were very zealous in murder.

















































Reply
#5
(05-12-2011, 02:03 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: decline and die. you can go to the gas chamber too. but many who did not decline were very zealous in murder.


Do you think that's ever taken into consideration. I would think extenuating circumstances would apply in some cases. Hells bells, I would have been a guard to save my own ass.


[Image: Zy3rKpW.png]
Reply
#6
My grandad suffered at the hands of the Nazi's during world war 2.

Passed over for promotions time and time again.

Smiley_emoticons_wink
We need to punish the French, ignore the Germans and forgive the Russians - Condoleezza Rice.
Reply
#7
(05-12-2011, 02:09 PM)Duchess Wrote:
(05-12-2011, 02:03 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: decline and die. you can go to the gas chamber too. but many who did not decline were very zealous in murder.


Do you think that's ever taken into consideration. I would think extenuating circumstances would apply in some cases. Hells bells, I would have been a guard to save my own ass.

that comes under the heading of "i was only following orders". but if you do it to save your own ass and at the same time relish outright murder, you are a war criminal.

the systematic murder of 6 million European Jews -- were set and carried out by the German Nazi regime, the murders could not have taken place without the participation of myriads of Europeans on many levels. Their role was also criminal.





















































Reply
#8
Berlin (CNN) -- Former Nazi death camp guard and onetime Ohio autoworker John Demjanjuk has died in Germany, a police spokesman said Saturday.

Demjanjuk, 91, was found guilty last May in a German court of assisting in mass murder as a guard at the Sobibor death camp in Poland and sentenced to five years in prison.

He died in a home for the elderly where he was living pending appeal, Oberbayern-Sud police spokesman Kilian Steger said. As part of standard procedure, the Traunstein state prosecutor's office is looking into the circumstances of his death, Steger said.


[Image: 120317114958-demjanjuk-munich-trial-story-top.jpg]


















































Reply
#9
So no punishment. He didn't speak at the trial, so he didn't even admit anything. No justice.
(03-15-2013, 07:12 PM)aussiefriend Wrote: You see Duchess, I have set up a thread to discuss something and this troll is behaving just like Riotgear did.
Reply
#10
(03-17-2012, 11:57 AM)Cracker Wrote: So no punishment. He didn't speak at the trial, so he didn't even admit anything. No justice.

we can only hope he's in an eternal oven in hell.


















































Reply
#11
(03-17-2012, 12:15 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: we can only hope he's in an eternal oven in hell.

I know that is comforting to the religious folks, but us heatherns don't find much justice there.

My only comfort is the fact that Jews don't act like Nazis when they catch them. That is a victory of the spirit.
(03-15-2013, 07:12 PM)aussiefriend Wrote: You see Duchess, I have set up a thread to discuss something and this troll is behaving just like Riotgear did.
Reply
#12
According to the New York Times AP wire Sunday, he was a member of the lowest level of prisoners who "agreed" to work with the Nazis. Nobody who was an inmate at Sobibor could even identify him, let alone level accusations of brutality against him. He was convicted solely for being a guard, solely upon the existence of his ID card.

Just some poor Russian soldier, wounded and captured by the Nazis. Check the facts but my memory tells me that roughly 1 in 10 Russian POWs survived the war.
Reply
#13
(03-17-2012, 12:15 PM)Lady Cop Wrote:
(03-17-2012, 11:57 AM)Cracker Wrote: So no punishment. He didn't speak at the trial, so he didn't even admit anything. No justice.

we can only hope he's in an eternal oven in hell.

Count on it.
I see it like this: Everyone that was over there and didn't fight against it was a part of the problem. Given the same situation I like to at least think that I would fight. All those millions of people that "Just Followed Orders" no one knew right from wrong? You Went Along to get along? WTF?
Reply
#14
Bullshit

People, get your facts straight.

Demjanjuk was accused of being "Ivan the Terrible". He was tried in Israel, convicted, then had his conviction overturned by the Israeli Supreme Court when it was proven that someone else was Ivan.

Read my earlier post.

In his trial in Germany, no former Sobibor inmate COULD EVEN IDENTIFY HIM. Nobody accused him of ANYTHING except being a camp guard. He was convicted solely because of his camp ID card.

Before anyone starts the "anyone who served the Nazis in the death camps shares the Nazis' guilt and deserves punishment" argument, remember that the bodies of the victims were removed from the gas chambers and taken to the crematoriums by other inmates, most of them other Jews.

Should they be prosecuted too?

If you want to express righteous indignation, what about the fact that the U.S. Government spirited away Klaus Barbie - The Butcher of Lyon - so the military could use him for a couple of years to gather intelligence, later hooking him up with the Catholic Church's "Ratline" and arranged his excape to South America. Were it not for the Klarsfelds, he would have died there after a happy, comfortable life.

And excuse me if I think that anyone who posts about how tough they would have been if they had been in a concertration camp is absolutely full of shit
Reply
#15
Pretty much any of us who would be prone to fighting back or resisting were summarily shot and rarely made it to the camps. The Germans often made examples of those they deemed most likely to cause trouble, and as a result the people within the camps were more compliant and interested in self-preservation rather than violent resistance.
Reply
#16
I'm the model of Aryan purity. I would make all you tards do my laundry.
(03-15-2013, 07:12 PM)aussiefriend Wrote: You see Duchess, I have set up a thread to discuss something and this troll is behaving just like Riotgear did.
Reply
#17
(03-20-2012, 07:10 PM)Cracker Wrote: I'm the model of Aryan purity. I would make all you tards do my laundry.

Your skidmarks - your problem.

Reply
#18
If you think it is intriguing to call yourself a disciple, say you weren't born to follow, and have the Taijitu for your avatar, you are wrong. Cracker expels more interesting matter.

The influx of boring people has made me wonder if someone shut down theuglybugball.com...
(03-15-2013, 07:12 PM)aussiefriend Wrote: You see Duchess, I have set up a thread to discuss something and this troll is behaving just like Riotgear did.
Reply
#19
(03-20-2012, 07:21 PM)Cracker Wrote: If you think it is intriguing to call yourself a disciple, say you weren't born to follow, and have the Taijitu for your avatar, you are wrong. Cracker expels more interesting matter.

The influx of boring people has made me wonder if someone shut down theuglybugball.com...

Thats what I was thinking about this douch
Reply
#20
(03-20-2012, 07:21 PM)Cracker Wrote: The influx of boring people has made me wonder if someone shut down theuglybugball.com...


I did notice you're a tad more welcoming to the timid newbies.


[Image: Zy3rKpW.png]
Reply