(07-31-2012, 03:36 PM)Lady Cop Wrote:

(07-31-2012, 01:53 PM)imsuchawildflower Wrote: whoa.
gonna be thinking on this quite a bit.
what do you think LC?

are you referring to TruthBeTold's post? i was pretty surprised to read it here in public myself, i have corresponded with that person throughout, privately. all i can say is Truth is in a position to know what he/she is talking about and has a lot of cred with me.

Yes.
That is stuff that had crossed my mind, but that I dismissed, simply because
1. I didnt want to think a mother would do that to her son. 2. It seemed a
bit to far of a stretch...so complicated and the harm that would come to
her son. 3. I just didnt want to believe it.
I will admit, that post has alot of points in it that I have had cross my
mind over and over again. Being a mother, I just couldnt fathom so
completely throwing your children to the wolves. But then again, she
has done that to her children since day one. Her police record shows
that....
whatever happened to people loving their children more than themselves?

(07-31-2012, 04:40 PM)imsuchawildflower Wrote: Nightowl said....
then this rant goes back and forth between them, some statements stick out like this one Sam Williams "when you was in the joint we took off man, you hear me?"

sounds as if he was reassuring himself of his alibi. That they were partners in crime (literally) and wanted it to look
like they never perpetrated, one without the other.

We are on the same wavelength here 'imsuchawildflower' !

Tanisha Madyun, was living with Cameo she was the current baby mama, at the time, she testified William's had stayed over several times at their place in January 2011, she also testified they both smoked Newports and when Sam called Cam on telephone Sam would call him Killa Cam and Rambo, so prior to the murders he was known as Rambo and now 2011 he's named Killa Cam. We have never heard where Williams and Pettaway were after the murders? did they leave cell phones with Tanisha ? and who is the 3^rd male & 2 females? did they all go back to the Bedford Inn? were the phones left there. Killa Cam has the answers he is best friends with Williams.

(07-31-2012, 03:44 PM)aileen Wrote: If Cameo and Sam were both known to be *pimps*, do you think the unknown DNA could belong to some of their prostitutes?? Prostitutes are usually big time druggies, so perhaps these pimps used them to do their dirty work as some kind of payback??

I say, start swabbing them hoes!

I believe they took DNA from Michelle Wainwright and Sarah Rupert both hoes!

Here's another charged with Prostitution mixed up with Michelle Wainwright and Sarah Rupert wonder if they got her DNA?



Esperanza Ledesma

Why WHY am I even a little surprised that these people wouldn't even have a little respect for the mother of their children and/or maybe even the women they profess to love. Whatta bunch of worthless individuals. I'd eat out of a dumpster before I sold a piece of my ass. Some of them are raising their kids around this kind of activity so chances are there will be another generation of people just like their parents. Ugh.

BAHAHAHAHAA im weak esperanza is on there for prostitution !!! Ah what a sad case all these hoes are !

I believe that conversation between sam and Rick james , is about prostitutiton , and ''work'' a.k.a drugs
why would you leave ''evidence'' in a drawer months and months after the murder had happened , there dumb but their not that dumb .
B4 rick james went to jail him and sam were pimping , then rick james got locked up , so cameo stepped in his brothers place , then sam and cam got locked up , and a couples months after rick james gets out , and trys to continue to do it big , finish what they started . but that didnt last being hes in jail again for prostitution . guess it didnt work to well.

why are all these hookers pertinent to case? maybe i've missed something. i guess they all know each other.

(07-31-2012, 06:41 PM)gurl2323 Wrote: BAHAHAHAHAA im weak esperanza is on there for prostitution !!! Ah what a sad case all these hoes are !

I believe that conversation between sam and Rick james , is about prostitutiton , and ''work'' a.k.a drugs
why would you leave ''evidence'' in a drawer months and months after the murder had happened , there dumb but their not that dumb .
B4 rick james went to jail him and sam were pimping , then rick james got locked up , so cameo stepped in his brothers place , then sam and cam got locked up , and a couples months after rick james gets out , and trys to continue to do it big , finish what they started . but that didnt last being hes in jail again for prostitution . guess it didnt work to well.

Full time pimps good information!

(07-29-2012, 05:16 AM)RedCloud Wrote: This crime is too horrible to let go, not to mention, we still have THREE MURDERERS

They are all guilty I say, it is going to be bad enough for Samuel Williams I believe he is the father of 2 children, can you imagine the pain for these children, the smart thing for Sam to do would be to turn the rest of the monsters' in! Turn them in! it's never too late, I say think about it, just think about it! at least that would be one right thing to do! IMO

I apologize for my outdated post the other night, but we just released a major game title at work and have another on the way, so I had been crazy busy at work- hubby is away playing GI Joe with the military and I am running the house and playing single parent these days, so I had been away from the forum for a week or two. I thought the trials would be delayed as they usually are, so I stepped on here, read where I had last left off, responded to a post- looked up and realized I had 100 pages to go through. In fact, I missed the entire trials ! Although that cigarette but seems like flimsy evidence to some, combined with those phone calls I felt it was damning and CP should have been convicted.

I am sorry but if my friend called me from jail and said they had been arrested for murdering two people, the conversation would be more like" What? what did you just say? OMG!!! Who? who is it they think you killed? who the hell is that? OMG!!! WTF?? why do they think it you did this? Where are you? what the hell is going on??? I would be freaking the heck out and confused.

I am caught up on the pages now so I know other mockers noticed this too, but the whole conversation was pretty much to touch base and let each other know that they were rock solid, not going to roll on each other, and that he might have left a cigarette but there ( never thought it was strange that neither one of them was never there and some how a cigarette but was found there, never wondered if someone set them up- right away thought one of them left it there) and just wanted to let him know he was rock solid and not going to roll and not to fall for the cops tricks because he was not going to.)

Those conversations along with the DNA on the cigarettes were enough to say that both these guys were at the scene of the crime. DNA also says there were 2 others that were probably there, so does this mean that Cam and Sam were the ones that actually did the killing?, no it does not but as Lady Cop said before, everyone that was there, is equally guilty so that would not matter. My question now would be, because I have seen this done in other cases, why didn't the cops charge them with one murder at a time if they were moving forward with just this evidence? for example. They could have just charged Cam with the murder of JC and his kidnapping.. and if that was dismissed and then they obtained more evidence, they could have later tried him with Lisa's kidnapping and murder, correct? I think I have 10 pages left to read. Been catching up for 2 nights now, so I will probably finish those tomorrow. Thank you again to all who have done a remarkable job keeping up with all the details for those of us who have not been able to be here each day.

(07-31-2012, 05:27 PM)NightOwl Wrote:

(07-31-2012, 04:40 PM)imsuchawildflower Wrote: Nightowl said....
then this rant goes back and forth between them, some statements stick out like this one Sam Williams "when you was in the joint we took off man, you hear me?"

sounds as if he was reassuring himself of his alibi. That they were partners in crime (literally) and wanted it to look
like they never perpetrated, one without the other.

We are on the same wavelength here 'imsuchawildflower' !

Tanisha Madyun, was living with Cameo she was the current baby mama, at the time, she testified William's had stayed over several times at their place in January 2011, she also testified they both smoked Newports and when Sam called Cam on telephone Sam would call him Killa Cam and Rambo, so prior to the murders he was known as Rambo and now 2011 he's named Killa Cam. We have never heard where Williams and Pettaway were after the murders? did they leave cell phones with Tanisha ? and who is the 3^rd male & 2 females? did they all go back to the Bedford Inn? were the phones left there. Killa Cam has the answers he is best friends with Williams.

Not doubting the Unknown Female DNA on the tape is from a conspirator, but what if, albeit far fetched, the sticky side of the tape simply latched to this DNA that was already on Johnny's clothes before the crime? Basically, I'd love to know how investigators differentiated suspicion from coincidence (never gonna happen, but I'd still love to know).

Simply saying the location of the DNA (on the tape) rules out a casual transfer isn't enough for me. I'm an IT guy so I want to know how things work and the troubleshooting steps to fix/figure out things. Experts can't agree on anything even in the IT world.

What exactly rules out a "casual transfer"? Again, not doubting, and I'm sure more explanation was given during the trials (or at least I hope).

"DNA" could be from just about anything. For example, if it was hair (no idea if it was or wasn't); hair falls out everywhere and the most common place people get hair on them is by sitting on a seat/bench/etc.

I don't know if the DNA was hair on the tape (it was previously mentioned that the defense said the other Unknown Female DNA samples were hair on Johnny's pants), but just to entertain this thought, it could be as simple as Johnny going to pick Lisa up from work while she was still finishing up. So he sits down on the waiting bench which had the hair on it (waiting for Lisa to be done).

All of this came to mind when these other unknown female DNA samples (hair) were mentioned in the trial casually by the defense. To me, it seems to insinuate that these other unknown female DNA samples were not suspicious to law enforcement...unless I was asleep at the wheel when this was explained.

1. Any word on the street if Johnny was seeing other girls behind Lisa's back? (Could very well explain a non-violent means of DNA transfer to clothes.)
2. Has anyone received word on what the DNA was from on the tape (saliva, hair, skin)?

Sounds to me they have girlfriends who are all their hoes! I do not get it! Somebody once told me that Sam stated, " Bitch, I don't sell drugs, I sell Pussy! And I will be selling yours by the weekend!" Although he does sell drugs! He told this to a person who is the grandmother of one of his wife's children! These pimps..... so they think they are..... are nasty pieces of shit. I hope Doris Aliminious realizes what a piece of shit she created, Starla deserves him! Just saying!

This was in yesterdays paper. Basically goes over everything we already know, but thought some might want to read.

Jury disagrees on Williams sentencing
Man will not face death in Springfield Twp. slayings
BY ERICA BLAKE:BLADE STAFF WRITER

A Toledo man recently found guilty in the asphyxiation deaths of a Springfield Township couple will not face the death penalty -- the result of a jury in Lucas County Common Pleas Court failing to agree on a sentence recommendation.

After three hours of deliberation that included the judge sending them back to try again, a jury of nine women and three men said late Monday that they could not agree on an appropriate sentencing recommendation for Samuel Williams.

The inability to decide means that the death penalty will not be a sentencing option given to Judge Dean Mandros.

Instead, the judge set an Aug. 10 sentencing date where he will impose either life in prison without parole, life with parole eligibility after 30 years, or life with parole after 25 years for the aggravated murder convictions stemming from the Jan. 30, 2011 slayings of Lisa Straub, 20, and Johnny Clarke, 21.

After a four-day trial, Williams, 24, was found guilty Friday of the two murder counts plus two counts of kidnapping and one count of aggravated burglary.

The couple were found in the Springfield Township home of Ms. Straub's parents with their hands bound behind their backs and plastic bags secured around their necks with duct tape. Clarke's ankles also were bound with duct tape.

The murder charges had capital specifications attached, which led to the trial's second phase Monday.

Williams was charged with two death or aggravating specifications for each murder count: that there were two or more victims, and that the deaths occurred during the commission of a felony in which the defendant was the principal offender, or the crime was premeditated.

While jurors found Williams guilty of the first specification involving multiple victims, they found him not guilty of the second specification.

When returning to the court Monday, jurors were informed that their new role was to determine whether the aggravating circumstances of the crime outweighed any mitigating factors presented by the defense.

Six witnesses testified for the defense throughout the morning, including Williams' wife and mother, to offer insight on Williams' background and character.

Attorney John Thebes asked jurors to open their minds and hearts while considering the appropriate sentence. He asked the jurors to consider three factors including Williams' young age, his background and character, and the fact that the jury found him not guilty of being the principal offender.

"I'd suggest that this alone is enough to lead you to choose life," he said. "Think about his degree of participation. That instruction is enough to outweigh any aggravated circumstances."

Witnesses testified about Williams' upbringing without his father, and abuse in his house inflicted by his stepfather. There was also testimony about his involvement in the lives of his two sons, ages 6 and 1 1/2.

When his ex-wife, Victoria Metcalf, testified about her 6-year-old son's relationship with his father, Williams became visibly upset and began to cry.

Mr. Thebes spoke of Williams' care of his son as an indication of the kind of person he is.

"You know based on the testimony today that there is goodness in the heart of Sam Williams," he said. "…Two people are dead, regrettably, tragically.… Let's stop the death at two, two's enough."

Citing a gag order imposed by the court at the beginning of the case, both defense attorneys and assistant county prosecutors did not comment on the jury's indecision. Members of both Williams family and the family members of the victims showed little reaction while in court. They also left without comment.

Assistant Prosecutors Jeff Lingo and Rob Miller reminded jurors during closing arguments that although not an easy task, their job was to consider the evidence and if they believed the aggravating circumstances related to the deaths of Ms. Straub and Clarke outweighed evidence presented by the defense, they must return a recommendation of death.

When questioning witnesses, Mr. Lingo asked about events in Williams' life that resulted in police reports, including threatening death to his half-sister and ex-wife as well as encouraging his then-girlfriend, now wife, to prostitute herself.

Mr. Miller noted that although Williams' childhood was dysfunctional and lacked a father figure, his was not unlike many families in similar situations.

"Sam Williams made a lot of choices," he said. "There are countless people who grow up in a single-family home and who have had drug issues, but who do not go out and commit double homicide or assist in the commission of a double homicide."

Because the jury was unable to offer a recommendation, the sentence will instead be Judge Mandros' decision. In addition to life sentences for each of the two aggravated murder counts, Williams also faces up to 11 years in prison on each of the additional counts.

(08-01-2012, 08:18 AM)DickTracy Wrote: Mr. Thebes spoke of Williams' care of his son as an indication of the kind of person he is.

Thanks, DickTracy!

In my opinion, the torture murders of two people speaks more to the kind of person he is rather than the fact he knows how to breed.

(08-01-2012, 08:35 AM)Duchess Wrote:

(08-01-2012, 08:18 AM)DickTracy Wrote: Mr. Thebes spoke of Williams' care of his son as an indication of the kind of person he is.

Thanks, DickTracy!

In my opinion, the torture murders of two people speaks more to the kind of person he is rather than the fact he knows how to breed.

There is no doubt about that Duchess, and speaking of the kind of person he is I just want to let it be known that this man does not believe in snitching! I do not know what this means to the rest of you but what this means to me, is that if I were ever in Toledo (cannot imagine a reason I ever would be especially after all of this) and saw this man being robbed, or beaten or maybe even worse, out of respect for his wishes I would never snitch and tell who did it. I figure with the life he lives and the choices he makes it is only a matter of time before something terrible comes his way and when it does, I hope the world remembers that he does not like snitching and out respect for his wishes, no one says a damned word!!!! I am so disgusted, but I do know that no one gets a way with anything in life like this, eventually it catches up and I know some day this will too. It is a matter of time. Rest in peace Johnny and Lisa.

"What this whole group is is people moving pills," explained an acquaintance, Matt Yockey, 21, during testimony in Williams' trial. "That's what this is."

yockey was arrested last night for B & E (breaking and entering).

We will be seeing most of these witnesses at some point being arrested for crimes I am sure.. this whole group is bad news IMO... prostitution, drugs, b & e, maybe even more murderers...... again just saying..

(08-01-2012, 01:25 AM)Snoopy Wrote: Those conversations along with the DNA on the cigarettes were enough to say that both these guys were at the scene of the crime. DNA also says there were 2 others that were probably there, so does this mean that Cam and Sam were the ones that actually did the killing?, no it does not but as Lady Cop said before, everyone that was there, is equally guilty so that would not matter.

I love, respect, and fear LC, but I humbly disagree in this instance. I think there can be degrees of guilt. Say for instance they came along with robbery in mind, then the other aholes with them decided to off the kids, maybe when these fat asses were sharing their ciggy. Maybe they even smoked it in the garage, came back in and found the murders done, tossing the butt to the floor. Are they, in that case, just as guilty as the murderers? I don't think so. Of course, they may have been in on the murders, might have even been the brains and muscles behind them, but it can't be proven.

So....maybe all things being equal, all things are not equal?

soothsayer: I love, respect, and fear LC, but I humbly disagree in this instance.

fear?? noooooo! i'm a lamb.

the fact is, whether anyone disagrees, it is the STATE OF THE LAW. if someone dies during the commission of a felony, they, the felons, are guilty of murder.
say someone is kidnapped...a felony. they didn't intend to kill them but the victim died for some reason. it's MURDER.
same if it's a robbery, whatever. oops, didn't mean for them to die!

(08-01-2012, 10:09 AM)soothsayer Wrote:

(08-01-2012, 01:25 AM)Snoopy Wrote: Those conversations along with the DNA on the cigarettes were enough to say that both these guys were at the scene of the crime. DNA also says there were 2 others that were probably there, so does this mean that Cam and Sam were the ones that actually did the killing?, no it does not but as Lady Cop said before, everyone that was there, is equally guilty so that would not matter.

I love, respect, and fear LC, but I humbly disagree in this instance. I think there can be degrees of guilt. Say for instance they came along with robbery in mind, then the other aholes with them decided to off the kids, maybe when these fat asses were sharing their ciggy. Maybe they even smoked it in the garage, came back in and found the murders done, tossing the butt to the floor. Are they, in that case, just as guilty as the murderers? I don't think so. Of course, they may have been in on the murders, might have even been the brains and muscles behind them, but it can't be proven.

Sorry if im babbling... im on my phone and its kind of difficult to go back and revise

So....maybe all things being equal, all things are not equal?

I disagree. Even if his onlt intention was to rob them... it doesnt make up for the fact that whether or not he was the actual murderer... he knows who is! If he were even a good person in the slightest he would come clean and tell what happened and who else is involved. I dont give two shits if his life motto is " no snitching" this just proves what a worthless piece of shit he really is imo. Bottom line is this man knows what happened, whether or not he was the actual one to do the killing. Hes a piece of shit and he is only protecting other pieces of shit. Imo this makes him just as guilty. Who the hell PROTECTS murderers?