she is very foolish to post that crap.
another one last night:

Justice for Johnny & Lisa
9 hours ago via mobile
THIS IS JOHNNYS DAD im telling all you evil vile demons that hurt my son and lisa IAM GOING TO SEND EACH AND EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU TO THE DEPTHS OF HELL DONT THINK FOR A SECOND THAT ANY OF YOU GOT AWAY WITH ALL YOUR EVIL DEEDS!!!!!!! ALL EYES ON YOU MFKRS

i do NOT believe that is big john typing or dictating for one minute.

----------------------------------------------------------------

here is PART of an email i received from someone who knows Cameo:

i cannot personally vouch for its accuracy. but the person who sent it feels strongly about it:
(xxx are mine)
there is more i have to think about before posting.
--------------------

As for how he handled the situation not good. We all knew he was innocent he is not a jail bird like the media made it seem. The longest time besides this was only 2 weeks. He was very depressed but who wouldn't be. He lost almost a yr of his life for something He had. No part in. He feels horrible for what happened to the young couple bc he has children too. N for your maytee rants the only word for both her n john is something else. She is a complete nut ball n he is a coward. He threatens young innocent females when they are alone. Cameos first court appearance she turned n said to xxx u got it coming bitch n he held his fingers like a gun at xxx. I feel terrible for what happened but for some reason I feel its maytee fault. xxx was sitting with the other witnesses during trial n a young man was telling xxx how she was n FBI snitch. So who is to say she didn't tell on the wrong ones. Just funny they can't find the 2 that are truely responsible for these murders. IMO I think that's exactly what happened n they retaliated by murdering them.

emails i post are verbatim, spelling errors are not mine.

(08-04-2012, 03:54 PM)tlynne Wrote: Wasnt it discussed before that she provided a false alibi for williams? She was one of his 'girlfriends' right? I could be wrong. So much has been discussed with this case maybe someone was just speculating at some point

Thanks Tlynne.

Now I have read this thread from page 1, but I have to admit that my memory of some of it is a bit hazy!

So she possibly could be one of his "girlfriends". Nice.

What on earth do these girls see in him. Drugs?

(08-04-2012, 05:58 PM)Duchess Wrote:

I wish we could get a thug in here so I could ask some questions.

I'm interested in what these people think about Cam walkin' & Sam going away for life. Is Sam mad at Cam? Is Cameo scared for his life? Do people on the street view Cam as a murderer or as an innocent? I have questions, damnit.

I want to know this too! Surely there has to be a part of Sam that is gutted that Cam walked and he didn't.

If I was Cam, going by the stuff Maytee has put on her fb, I'd at least be looking over my shoulder. I suppose it could come down to who has the nastier connections and "protection" of the two sides.

(08-05-2012, 03:22 AM)Older Than Dirt Wrote: I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING HER ALL EVENING. At least 6 posts in a couple hours.. With all the threats, if something happens, she could be suspect.

I think that she and Big John would be the main suspects if anything happens to Cam or his family and friends. She has made it so blatant that she wants to extract revenge. I'm suprised she hasn't got some interest from the cops with all the threats she's making.

I am undecided whether I think she is stupid or has an agenda given all her threats and behaviour. She nearly wrecked that trial with her behaviour and didn't get to give evidence. Surely she has been told she was prejudicing the trial (I know Lady Cop said this several times on here, but I can't remember reading if LE or the prosecution team told her that). Its almost like she is sabotaging the case with her antics, as other mockers have said.

(08-04-2012, 05:49 PM)NightOwl Wrote:

(08-04-2012, 10:38 AM)Green Ribbon Wrote: 1. How come two not so bright (and one even classed as a retard!) perps managed not to leave any dna on either bodies in what was a nasty murder?

Well this is a good question, if your refer back to the phone calls tape recorded in Jail with Sam Williams and Steven Pettaway, my take on these two is they've been roughing up people possibly at other locations in Toledo, it was supposed to be Steven that night but, he was in jail so Cam had to go as substitute. It sounds to me like they are a couple of thugs that were rented out, some bastard set this thing up and hired those two to thump Johnny and Lisa around and hold them down by force. The jail phone calls fried Williams and Yinglings testimony.

I believe they all wore gloves in the beginning the trouble begins with duct tape, I would assume it is more difficult to handle duct tape with gloves on. What we don't know is which side of the duct tape was the DNA found, if it was found on the sticky side then they used their fingers and wiped the outside of the duct tape off, we also don't know if it's skin cells, saliva or hair. No DNA was on the bags, Some female DNA found inside Johnny's pants pockets same as on the Duct Tape. My take on all this is Williams and Pettaway the henchmen put the bags over their heads whilst the others taped. We don't know for sure if both Cam and Sam took a smoke break together, what if it was just Cam and he had never done a job like this before according to brother Steven, and it was goofy Cameo that slipped up and left the cig., by mistake & Sam didn't know it. IMO

Night Owl, thanks for coming back to me and I agree with your theory. Williams call and Yearling's testimony was definitely a major factor in his conviction. Like you, I also think it was Sam and Cam's big brother who had probably done similar things prior to this crime.

That goes back to what Duchess asked, if Sam does think that it was Cam who screwed up that night - by leaving the cig butt, then he's got to be mad as hell that Cam got off and that he got convicted.

Going back to Yearlings, if I was him I'd be looking over my shoulder right now, but I give the guy respect for doing the right thing and testifying. I just hope that his local police force have got his back.

I have also the same thoughts/questions as you in regard to the duct tape and dna evidence. I would love to know exactly where the dna was found on the tape and what type it was. I also agree with your thought that they were the henchmen and that someone else - the female? did the taping and I think your point about taking off the gloves is spot on! I'm in the middle of painting and decorating here, but I am using masking tape not duct tape and it is a bugger to handle with gloves, so I imagine duct tape would be even harder to tear. My instinct is to bite and then tear the tape, but then I am innocently decorating not hurting people.

(08-05-2012, 02:17 AM)Aberlin Wrote:

(08-04-2012, 10:38 AM)Green Ribbon Wrote: 1. How come two not so bright (and one even classed as a retard!) perps managed not to leave any dna on either bodies in what was a nasty murder?

Could be a million reasons why and we won't know for sure until someones comes forward with the entire story, mentioning every detail. Obvious statement I know, but worth saying anyway

Even though we're not dealing with world class assassins here, I feel confident in saying all who were involved knew about finger prints, hair fibers, etc.

Before getting into Cam and Sam lets talk about the Unknown Female.

Nightowl made a great point about duct tape being difficult to open with gloves on. However, the DNA on the tape is the same Unknown Female DNA inside Johnny's pockets. So there's a clue.

In her case, here's some possible scenarios:
1. She took off her gloves twice (once for the tape, once for going through Johnny's pocket...both tasks difficult to do with gloves on).
2. She took her gloves off once for taping Johnny and went through his pocket immediately afterwards
3. She was wearing either surgical or thin/cheap gloves that got ripped in a small place during the struggle or while opening the duct tape
4. She never had gloves on to begin with (signifying either a lack of planning or implying she was not supposed to be a "hands on enforcer/participant"...I'll explain later, but I don't put much stock into this theory)
5. The DNA might not be from skin but rather saliva from biting off the tape (this doesn't explain the DNA in Johnny's pocket)
6. DNA on the tape could be from hair (this also doesn't explain the DNA in Johnny's pocket)

Point 5 is my favorite theory personally because if a second person had to come restrain Johnny, its safe to assume he was putting up an intense fight. Not too hard to assume she had one arm wrapped around Johnny's legs and the other spooling the tape around his feet. Perhaps with all the squirming it seemed easier to continue to hold him down and use her teeth break loose the duct tape. In addition, sometimes duct tape is a pain in the ass to rip, so when you're in a hurry you use your teeth (ask anyone how works with duct tape regularly).

Of course this theory isn't without its failings because I don't think this girl started licking the inside of Johnny's pocket.

The problem with the term "DNA" is that it can encompass more than one thing (skin, hair, saliva, etc) and we're lacking full disclosure about these samples.

The reason I put so much emphasis on this girl is because I believe this was a planned robbery effort. However, if you agree this was a planned effort then you also have to acknowledge collaboration. With collaboration, there's a certain level of consistency; if one wears gloves, all will, if one covers their face, all will, etc. I seriously doubt someone would come along seeing others with gloves thinking they're safe touching things with out them.

With collaboration there's varying levels of participation (which is key). I doubt they all went in there just winging it and seeing who grabs who first. Sure, I think there was some on-the-spot improvising but all in all when you bring that many people with you, each has a specific reason for being there.

Keeping those scenarios in mind remember that:
1. DNA was found on the cig butt but not fingerprints (Sam and Cam were wearing gloves...or at least when they went outside)
2. Sam and Cam both have very short hair (less likely to find hair fibers)
3. It was winter (people wear long sleeves and the likes that aids in covering skin/hair)

If Sam and Cam were masked, that can further explain the lack of hair-based DNA. As for the girl, longer hair has more probability of falling out even with a mask on.

If the DNA on the tape was saliva, then there is a pattern here; criminals aware of fingerprint evidence, composite sketches (maybe), and hair, but not thinking of saliva. If this is true, why bother taking the cig butt with you? Why not just bite off the tape?

There might not be any other DNA samples of Sam and Cam inside the house simply because they were just reinforcements; there to step in if someone got loose, etc.

However, I believe they all had some sort of hands on effort and the lack of evidence against them is because they were careful in every regard but overlooked DNA transfers from saliva. As far as the girl, maybe she was in a panicked state and stopped thinking because it all got out of hand so fast.

Lastly, you could be looking at total luck here. People have shot themselves and somehow left no fingerprints on the gun they used. Just mentioning that to show stranger things have happened.

Sorry for the triple post in advance - Lady Cop and Duchess. If it is frowned upon here then please let me know, I just didn't want to reply to everyone who answered me in a massive post. Also as some of the responses are quite detailed, I would have probably forgotten loads of stuff i wanted to say if I did it in one.

Aberlin

I think you have pretty much got every potential scenario here.

Like you, I think they were forensically aware to a certain extent. Now with all the crime tv shows, they could pick up the basics and still be not too bright!

I like your theory 5 too. The possible thought I had there is if she bit and handled/tore the tape, she could possibly have had the adhesive on her fingers and IF she then went through Johnny's pockets after, the adhesive stuck in his pocket and took some of her skins cells/and or sweat with it. I could be totally wrong here, but I just thought it could be possible that they had two different types of samples eg. Saliva and skin cells.

I can see everything you suggest as being possible.

The only slight difference I have.....and it is a big IF....is the point you made about them covering their faces....but, this possibility relies on taking what Tiffany Williams stated that Johnny said on the phone was true.....and let's face it...It's a big if!

If what TW stated what JC said to her on the phone is to be believed, I would have thought that he would have freaked out more on the phone if they had turned up masked up, if it had been me in his position, if masked guys had turned up at my house I'd have been freaking out to my friend on the phone and telling them to ring the cops.

But, given that he might have had a stash of drugs in Lisa's house, I can accept that he may not have wanted to get the cops involved, or he was just too shocked to say anything to Tiff or of course she lied about what was said.

Now, I have known a few druggies in my time and I years ago knew a couple of very, very small time dealers. One of these dealers was robbed and he and his wife were roughed up by people they knew of (but did not know) who didn't bother to cover their faces cause they knew there was now way in hell the dealer could go to the cops and report what had happened. Which could also explain why Johnny didn't say more to Tiff on the phone.

I have gone off on a bit of a tangent here, but I do think like you that their heads were covered, irrespective of whether or not they were masked up (which is a tiny detail in the greater scheme of the whole crime).

You guys at Mock ought to write a book on this case when it is finally closed. Your knowledge and analysis of this case is so indepth.

<-------this is more of the email from cameo's friend that i posted on previous page:
note: dvs = domestic violence charges.
--------------------------------------------------

The most important thing everyone needs to know is Cameo was not at that house period. Sam never once said a thing to cameo about these murders. Obviously the question still is how that cigg got there. Which nobody knows IMO I think Sam went to buy pills from Johnny n that's how. Otherwise I would have to say Alex would have had to set him up. Cameo is sick over the whole situation. Sam is not mad that cameo was released just upset bc he is sitting there on a fake testimony. As for the question if cameo fears the Clarke's not at all otherwise he wouldn't be out n about. Sorry I'm trying to remember questions I've seen. O the conversation between Sam n Steve was in fact about the prostitution situation, not the murder. None of these guys are capable of murder yes they have dvs on there background now I can only speak for cameo on this that the dvs were mostly arguments n he wouldn't leave the home so the only way to remove him was to press charges. Cameo isn't a horrible person but he isn't n angel either he hasn't had a normal childhood as I'm sure u can tell doesn't take a genius to catch on to that.
Do I think Cameo is retarded absolutely not. but he does have problems. He doesn't conprephend as an average person does he had a lot of medical issues as a child.
There are certain things he can't do without help.


emails i posted are verbatim, spelling errors are not mine.

(08-05-2012, 10:30 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: this is more of the email from cameo's friend that i posted on previous page:

To whomever is sharing this with LC, thank you VERY much!

(08-05-2012, 10:35 AM)Duchess Wrote:

(08-05-2012, 10:30 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: this is more of the email from cameo's friend that i posted on previous page:

To whomever is sharing this with LC, thank you VERY much!

thanks indeed. and anyone who wishes to make their opinions known or has information, need not fear their identity being revealed here. they can write to me anonymously and securely.

Anyone that can pimp their pregnant girlfriend out seems very cold hearted. I think Sam is very capable of murder...

I would like to ask the friend of Cameo Pettaway's that emailed Lady Cop
a couple of questions.

What was Cameo's alibi for the evening of the murders?

Is he still friends with Michelle Wainwright?

Thanks to Rule 29 he is free!

The Domestic Violence Charges are far from nonsense, he's guilty!

(08-05-2012, 10:24 AM)Green Ribbon Wrote: [quote='Aberlin' pid='275203' dateline='1344147444']
[quote='Green Ribbon' pid='275103' dateline='1344091112']
The only slight difference I have.....and it is a big IF....is the point you made about them covering their faces....but, this possibility relies on taking what Tiffany Williams stated that Johnny said on the phone was true.....and let's face it...It's a big if!

If what TW stated what JC said to her on the phone is to be believed, I would have thought that he would have freaked out more on the phone if they had turned up masked up, if it had been me in his position, if masked guys had turned up at my house I'd have been freaking out to my friend on the phone and telling them to ring the cops.

But, given that he might have had a stash of drugs in Lisa's house, I can accept that he may not have wanted to get the cops involved, or he was just too shocked to say anything to Tiff or of course she lied about what was said.

Excellent response!! I'm a little doubtful about them wearing masks myself, but at the same time wearing masks does reduce the risk of direct retaliation. Unless they knew Johnny would never be able to "go to war with them."

I think you're spot on about Johnny's response too. Seeing someone masked you know there's some serious shit about to go down. On the other hand, strangers in the house might make you second guess your instincts or give you the false belief you can talk your way out of the situation. People tend to believe they can talk their way out of any trouble.

Of course you have a solid point on the validity of Tiffany's testimony on what Johnny said. I'm not doubting her testimony, but rather acknowledging we are all basing these theories on hearsay.

I've gone back and forth on my views of Tiffany some many times. Don't really want to go there for a while.

However, here's a thought I just had. IF...again if, Tiffany was the one who set this up, it would have been discussed that she was going to call Johnny's phone numerous times in an attempt to eliminate herself as a suspect.

The issue with that theory is the reaction of the perps. They got so pissed from the constant calls they threw the phone across the room. It would have changed nothing in the "alibi" if the perps quickly picked up the phone and said "alright enough...stop calling!!" Tiffany could have simply said Johnny was screaming for help that final call and the phone went dead. Then she drove out there. Of course as well all know she never said that. So the reaction of the perps makes me doubt she was arranging the crime.

(08-06-2012, 12:11 AM)Aberlin Wrote: Excellent response!! I'm a little doubtful about them wearing masks myself, but at the same time wearing masks does reduce the risk of direct retaliation. Unless they knew Johnny would never be able to "go to war with them."

Thanks Aberlin.

Totally agree with you in regard to the masks, that it does reduce the risk of retaliation. The only thing that makes me think they didn't wear them was Tiffany's statement of Johnny's final call.

(08-06-2012, 12:11 AM)Aberlin Wrote: I think you're spot on about Johnny's response too. Seeing someone masked you know there's some serious shit about to go down. On the other hand, strangers in the house might make you second guess your instincts or give you the false belief you can talk your way out of the situation. People tend to believe they can talk their way out of any trouble.

Of course you have a solid point on the validity of Tiffany's testimony on what Johnny said. I'm not doubting her testimony, but rather acknowledging we are all basing these theories on hearsay.

I've gone back and forth on my views of Tiffany some many times. Don't really want to go there for a while.

Tbh, I don't know what to make of Tiffany. My thoughts on her validity wasn't so much based on me thinking she was involved, but more on like you said, hearsay and the possibility that she was in some way holding back information. By that I mean - it's thought that they were all in to pills, was she reluctant to get the cops invoved because she knew there was a stash at the house and didn't want to get her friends (J & L) in to trouble and played down the danger, to justify her not ringing the cops and Johnny's family way earlier.

Or IIRR, hasn't she stated on her fb how 'street' she is a few times? Could she be reluctant to be seen to snitch on someone. So she may have actually heard more about who was there that night, but doesn't want to be a snitch. Is it her fella who actually has a tattoo saying "stop snitching"?

I can understand you not wanting to go there for awhile though, you guys have been following this case in depth from the start, I'd be on some of the details by now, myself.

(08-06-2012, 12:11 AM)Aberlin Wrote: However, here's a thought I just had. IF...again if, Tiffany was the one who set this up, it would have been discussed that she was going to call Johnny's phone numerous times in an attempt to eliminate herself as a suspect.

The issue with that theory is the reaction of the perps. They got so pissed from the constant calls they threw the phone across the room. It would have changed nothing in the "alibi" if the perps quickly picked up the phone and said "alright enough...stop calling!!" Tiffany could have simply said Johnny was screaming for help that final call and the phone went dead. Then she drove out there. Of course as well all know she never said that. So the reaction of the perps makes me doubt she was arranging the crime.

I think you are spot on there! The reaction to the phones does look like they simply got pissed off with all the calls and I accept that it would have changed nothing for them to answer and say enough.

(08-05-2012, 05:18 PM)NightOwl Wrote: I would like to ask the friend of Cameo Pettaway's that emailed Lady Cop
a couple of questions.

What was Cameo's alibi for the evening of the murders?

Is he still friends with Michelle Wainwright?

Thanks to Rule 29 he is free!

The Domestic Violence Charges are far from nonsense, he's guilty!

Can I just add a couple of questions to the list for Cameo's friend please?

1. Cameo must have some theory on how his dna got to be at the house, how does he think it got there?

2. Also, the friend says in their opinion Sam went there to buy pills and that's how the dna got there. Well, if that is the case, why didn't Sam say that to his legal team? Wouldn't it have explained why the dna was there. Far better to say "I went there to buy drugs" and bring in a reasonable doubt, then say nothing and go down for murder? Any defence lawyer I know would say that in court rather than not give that as an explanation if that were the case.

3. If the snitch is false testimony, why would a guy who seemingly had nothing to gain by snitching (he'd already been sentenced) go on oath, risk perjuring himself and retaliation attacks to give false testimony?

To the friend of Cam's, I'm not trying to be harsh and confrontational here, I am really glad you have come here to put Cam's side across, I am just asking the questions that anyone would ask, given what Sam/Cam/you have said. I hope you keep posting.

another cig. butt murder case. i thought it was interesting. it's a perfect medium for DNA.


--------------------------------------------

The Austin Statesman

Texas

A discarded cigarette at the scene of a fatal July shooting in North Austin led detectives to a Hays County man now charged with murder.

Thomas Atkinson, 35, from Niederwald, was arrested Friday after police traced DNA evidence on a cigarette butt left at the scene of the homicide, an arrest affidavit filed Monday said.

Alejandro "Alex" Hernandez Jr., 42, was found dead shortly before 6 a.m. July 9 in a pickup truck in the 200 block of Lola Lane, near Interstate 35 and U.S. 183. Police collected items from the scene, including the discarded cigarette, and analyzed them for DNA evidence. Hernandez's wife told officers he did not smoke.

During the investigation, various witnesses told detectives that Hernandez had picked up a prostitute called Sunshine at the Austin Suites Hotel in North Austin the night before he was shot, court documents said.

Witnesses told investigators that in the morning, Hernandez would not let Sunshine out of the truck, which was parked on Lola Lane, the affidavit said. Atkinson, Sunshine's boyfriend, was nearby. Court documents said that witnesses told investigators Atkinson then approached the vehicle and shot Hernandez.

According to a search warrant issued last month, police said the cigarette butt was likely left behind during the confrontation.

"The cigarette butt found on the front passenger seat of the decedent's truck was most likely dropped by the suspect during the confrontation that resulted in the victim's death," the documents said.

Atkinson told police he knew Sunshine and had a confrontation with a Hispanic man who would not let her out of his vehicle the night of the shooting, the affidavit said.

He told police that he hit the man's windshield and left. When pressed about his involvement in the shooting, Atkinson asked for an attorney, the affidavit said.



Thomas Atkinson is charged with the murder of Alejandro Hernandez Jr.



dead guy. Alejandro Hernandez Jr. was found shot in his pickup truck July 9.

I really, really need to stop smoking! hahahaha

There are two very lengthy court docs posted today dated 8-6-2011 in Re: to the Williams case. I'm not posting the links because they don't
stay open very long on here. So, I am posting just the conclusions.
Therefore, given the cases above, Defendant submits that the two counts of Aggravated Murder should merge and served concurrently as well.

Conclusion: The penalties in counts 1,2,4 and 5 may be consecutive to each other. The State does not opposed a concurrent sentence in Count 3. Due to the heinousness of these offenses, the State of Ohio would respectively request an appropriate sentence be imposed upon the defendant in accordance with his deeds.

(08-07-2012, 02:42 PM)Older Than Dirt Wrote: The State of Ohio would respectively request an appropriate sentence be imposed upon the defendant in accordance with his deeds.

This bastard showed no mercy whatsoever for Johnny and Lisa, he showed no remorse after being found guilty.

I pray that Judge Dean Mandros will show no mercy!

I agree completely, I hope Judge Mandros gives Williams the max possible. Hate to think about him EVER being eligible for parole.Death actually would be to good for him. He needs to be made to wish he were dead. I have said it before, put a bag over his head and give him the same treatment, daily, for life. I cannot help but get hung up on the fact that there are more guilty thugs out there on this one. I think it is as close to fact as it can get that there were more useless pieces of trash involved. I certainly hope that more charges are coming soon and I hope they are handled in a better manner than Gotaways trial. Just very sickening to know that Williams and others know exactly what happened and who did it that night. I also think that once the whole story comes out, if it does, that many will be shocked at some of the actual participants. Others will be simply....." I knew it!".

i tried to look back through the thread and couldn't find it, so forgive me, but can anyone tell me who sarah rupert is? i know someone by that name...

(08-08-2012, 12:30 AM)allieayy Wrote: i tried to look back through the thread and couldn't find it, so forgive me, but can anyone tell me who sarah rupert is? i know someone by that name...

Sarah Rupert is one of the prostitutes mentioned on Mock and she is so in love with Cameo that's her man

She is on Cameo Gottaway's Facebook page.

more from the source of the last couple emails i posted:

(posts: #22161 & 22165)

a friend of Cameo's.
-----------------------------------------

I do believe that if Sam did have something to do with this he would have rolled on the true killers as soon as he was told he was looking at death. He is a good dad to his kids. And I truely don't think he would take that from his kids if he didn't have to.
O n before I forget. Just bc the cigarette butt had cameos DNA on it doesn't mean he smoked it. They never mentioned whether it was saliva or any other form of DNA. His could of transferred just by pulling the cigarette out of the pack n handing it to another person. Just thought I'd share that bit of info. As for the Clarke's n their crazy Rantings I think they are threatening the wrong ppl, they n I mean maytee needs to lay off the fb n get on the phone n start threatening the detective that messed this whole investigation up n didn't do his job period. Accused an innocent person from a cigarette, I do wonder that detective feels the least bit of guilt for taking damn near a yr of his life away from his children especially after meeting them n seeing how much they love their father
As for cameos alibi I think his phone records pretty much covered that. N I know ppl will say o well his phone was on the eastside don't mean he was. But anyone that knows cameo knows he don't leave anywhere without his phone not even to go to the bathroom.