(12-17-2012, 05:53 PM)username Wrote: I don't disagree. The article HotD posted said the kid had "episodes" at school. He shouldn't have been around guns.

She was most likely under a lot of stress regarding him.

Her huge mistake was having a houseful of guns as you and others have noted.

She paid with her life. Wish it would've ended there.

(12-17-2012, 05:57 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: This is something different, and you're skirting it.

What exactly do you think I'm skirting? I feel like I've been very vocal.

(12-17-2012, 06:00 PM)Duchess Wrote:

(12-17-2012, 05:57 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: This is something different, and you're skirting it.

What exactly do you think I'm skirting? I feel like I've been very vocal.

This is not about arming yourself in your home.

This is about being able to gather in a public place, go to school, etc., and not worry about some fuckstick murdering people.

Even if it were just the high-capacity, semi-automatic weapons that were banned, it would make most people feel better.

Sure, regular handguns and long guns still exist, and are available, but I don't think as many would be killed.

Like many have said, our society needs to do better. Needs to start somewhere.

(12-17-2012, 05:57 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: As I've told Jim in the past, I'd love to see just one instance where a 'conceal and carry' person was in the immediate vicinity when something like this was unfolding, and just blasted the perp.

Check youtube dude, there are hundreds of them on there. Its started happening all the time, some asshole tries to rob a 7-11 or a internet cafe and Grandpa stands up and starts blasting the assholes.
Like I said earlier, more legal armed and trained citizens will make a more polit society

(12-17-2012, 07:00 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote:

(12-17-2012, 05:57 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: As I've told Jim in the past, I'd love to see just one instance where a 'conceal and carry' person was in the immediate vicinity when something like this was unfolding, and just blasted the perp.

Check youtube dude, there are hundreds of them on there. Its started happening all the time, some asshole tries to rob a 7-11 or a internet cafe and Grandpa stands up and starts blasting the assholes.
Like I said earlier, more legal armed and trained citizens will make a more polit society

Are you talking about a convenience store and the clerk has a weapon?

That's great.

I'm talking about a 3^rd party intervening against a gun-wielding perp meaning to do harm to unarmed citizens.

i don't have a problem with people who own guns; my family members were all hunters (my grandson had gun lessons, but only 12) and i didn't approve of that. don't have problems with people protecting themselves and property. There are the "experts" who say don't buy a gun unless you plan to shoot it and warn that the perp/pervert will likely take the weapon away from you if you are a woman. That would be my luck so i do not own a gun. i still feel we need stronger laws re guns. Go to a site that will give you statistics on the U.S. and deaths by guns versus other countries. We, of course, lead the pack. While you may be responsible, we have those who are not.. we need more than a cursory background check to purchase guns.. just because you don't have a police record, doesn't mean you won't shoot up the town. If everyone is packin heat, then we might as well go back to 1800's and wait for the guy with the white hat to ride in on his horse and save us all. No reason for assault weapons out there. Roy Rogers and Gene Autry didn't use them.
I also don't understand the States (mine included) who allow concealed weapons. What's up with that? Then finally enforce the gun laws that we do have....

BBH, I think you're older than I realized. I take back at least 2 of the times I called you a cunt or twat.


ETA: I don't really care about regular hand guns or ccw's; just the assault type weapons and magazine sizes.

Some of you may already know this & I think a few of you may be astounded to learn this.

Concealed carry at 16 — with no permit: Most states that allow people to carry a concealed weapon on their person require gun owners to obtain a permit before doing so. But four states — Alaska, Arizona, Wyoming and Vermont — allow concealed carry without any permit.

Property rights end where gun rights begin: According to the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, 17 states, including Oklahoma and Florida, bar employers from preventing their employees from bringing guns to work and keeping them locked in their vehicles, even if those vehicles are on the property of the employer.

A class of laws, called “castle doctrine” statutes by supporters, in most states clarify that homeowners who feel threatened in their domicile have no duty to retreat from threats or to refrain from the use of deadly force. But most states also have such laws that apply to conflagrations in public places, far removed from the shooter’s “castle.” That is, 34 states allow people to use deadly force when they feel threatened in public.

Open carry without a permit: Most legal disputes around carrying guns in public involved concealed carry. But open carry, which is arguably more threatening to surrounding community members, is largely unregulated. Thirty-five states allow open carry of handguns without a permit.

Federal law mandates that licensed gun dealers only sell long guns to individuals 18 and older, and handguns to individuals 21 and older. But not all legal gun sellers are federally licensed. For instance, many gun show participants sell guns legally without a federal license. That means that many under 18 and 21 are capable of buying guns legally.

Guns at schools: In 2010, Kansas passed a law allowing the concealed carry of guns in K-12 schools, in violation of the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act, which criminalizing the carrying of firearms in specified school zones. That act was ruled unconstitutional in U.S. v. Lopez as exceeding the federal government’s powers under the Commerce Clause, and a revised statute was passed that limits the ban to guns “involved in interstate commerce,” so it is possible that the Kansas statute does not run afoul of federal law in all cases.

This past week, Michigan followed suit, with state legislators passing a law allowing concealed carry in schools, bars, daycare centers and churches. Gov. Rick Snyder ® has not signed the bill into law, and its ultimate passage is now in doubt due to the Newtown incident.

Read about it here.

(12-17-2012, 07:33 PM)blueberryhill Wrote: i don't have a problem with people who own guns; my family members were all hunters (my grandson had gun lessons, but only 12) and i didn't approve of that. don't have problems with people protecting themselves and property. There are the "experts" who say don't buy a gun unless you plan to shoot it and warn that the perp/pervert will likely take the weapon away from you if you are a woman. That would be my luck so i do not own a gun. i still feel we need stronger laws re guns. Go to a site that will give you statistics on the U.S. and deaths by guns versus other countries. We, of course, lead the pack. While you may be responsible, we have those who are not.. we need more than a cursory background check to purchase guns.. just because you don't have a police record, doesn't mean you won't shoot up the town. If everyone is packin heat, then we might as well go back to 1800's and wait for the guy with the white hat to ride in on his horse and save us all. No reason for assault weapons out there. Roy Rogers and Gene Autry didn't use them.
I also don't understand the States (mine included) who allow concealed weapons. What's up with that? Then finally enforce the gun laws that we do have....

I have a concealed permit and in my state I can walk around with a sidearm. But would I walk into a resturant with it strapped to my leg or in my jacket? Yes would I go to a rock concert with it no. It all depends on what you're doing. I would not walk into a ski lodge with one. (only because black/hispanic people do not ski) or a hockey game. Yeah a hockey game bilbo. I'm still on the fence with Wal-mart and would rather wait in the car.

yeah, User I am old, and i accept the apology for at least 2 times that you called me the c and t word. It is o.k. not to apologize for the other times as i don't want to be discriminated against because of age so carry on. i think one was butthead but i don't mind that one.

(12-17-2012, 10:20 PM)blueberryhill Wrote: yeah, User I am old, and i accept the apology for at least 2 times that you called me the c and t word. It is o.k. not to apologize for the other times as i don't want to be discriminated against because of age so carry on. i think one was butthead but i don't mind that one.

Good to know.

(12-17-2012, 05:57 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: As I've told Jim in the past, I'd love to see just one instance where a 'conceal and carry' person was in the immediate vicinity when something like this was unfolding, and just blasted the perp.

Interesting you bring that up... in the Clackamas mall shooting their was a guy with a CCW who did draw his weapon and took position to fire at the shooter. The shooter was struggling with his rifle, and saw the guy with the handgun positioned to fire at him. The CCW holder did not fire because there were people behind the shooter, and he did not have a safe firing condition. When the shooter unjammed his rifle he turned it on himself and the situation was over.

Not exactly what you were looking for, but it looks like the guy with the CCW minimized the incident with his presence...although I will concede that is a debatable point.

ETA: http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-ar...93571.html

Story about the CCW holder ^^^^^

(12-17-2012, 07:17 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote:

(12-17-2012, 07:00 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote:

(12-17-2012, 05:57 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: As I've told Jim in the past, I'd love to see just one instance where a 'conceal and carry' person was in the immediate vicinity when something like this was unfolding, and just blasted the perp.

Check youtube dude, there are hundreds of them on there. Its started happening all the time, some asshole tries to rob a 7-11 or a internet cafe and Grandpa stands up and starts blasting the assholes.
Like I said earlier, more legal armed and trained citizens will make a more polit society

Are you talking about a convenience store and the clerk has a weapon?

That's great.

I'm talking about a 3^rd party intervening against a gun-wielding perp meaning to do harm to unarmed citizens.

No, Actually I wasn't. I was talking about the old guy at the internet in Ocala that ran off the gun weilding dirtbags that decided to come in and rob the place. And the grandpa in Miami in the line to get to the bank teller, he shot the robber dead right there in the bank lobby.
And this guy
http://www.ohio.com/news/break-news/man-...t-1.338558
And this guy
http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2012/10/co...stops.html
and this guy
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime...0f31a.html
Here is the guy in the internet cafe
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/surveill...e-robbers/
And this guy
http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/story...6wYHQ.cspx
You asked for one, there are a few that will keep you busy

Maggot,
the next time i am a restaurant and some "crazie" comes in hellbent on shooting everyone, i will pray to God, that you are in the same place with your concealed weapon and save us all. You will be my hero and I feel better now.

(12-17-2012, 11:01 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote:

(12-17-2012, 07:17 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote:

(12-17-2012, 07:00 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote:

(12-17-2012, 05:57 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: As I've told Jim in the past, I'd love to see just one instance where a 'conceal and carry' person was in the immediate vicinity when something like this was unfolding, and just blasted the perp.

Check youtube dude, there are hundreds of them on there. Its started happening all the time, some asshole tries to rob a 7-11 or a internet cafe and Grandpa stands up and starts blasting the assholes.
Like I said earlier, more legal armed and trained citizens will make a more polit society

Are you talking about a convenience store and the clerk has a weapon?

That's great.

I'm talking about a 3^rd party intervening against a gun-wielding perp meaning to do harm to unarmed citizens.

No, Actually I wasn't. I was talking about the old guy at the internet in Ocala that ran off the gun weilding dirtbags that decided to come in and rob the place. And the grandpa in Miami in the line to get to the bank teller, he shot the robber dead right there in the bank lobby.
And this guy
http://www.ohio.com/news/break-news/man-...t-1.338558
And this guy
http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2012/10/co...stops.html
and this guy
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime...0f31a.html
Here is the guy in the internet cafe
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/surveill...e-robbers/
And this guy
http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/story...6wYHQ.cspx
You asked for one, there are a few that will keep you busy

I'm just wondering if any of those instances were a regular gun toting citizen going up against a person carrying an assault weapon? That would seem like taking a stick to a sword fight. I think you'd have to be damn stealthy plus an accurate marks person to win against someone with an assault weapon.

I carry mine all the time. I have to run around all over south florida at all hours and in a lot of shitty places. I keep it on me pretty much everywhere I am not in the office, home or a vehicle. In the truck its on the console. Restraunts, stores wherever. I don't think I am likely to be a target at home and probably not rolling around, getting a gatoraid at the 7-11 or lunch is another matter. Not to mention while checking out a cell tower next to the interstate in the hood.
With a little luck I'll wear it out in my waistband and at the range, but you never know.

I thought this was a reasoned and fair approach to the current debate... FWIW to anyone interested:

http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2012...wn-debate/

(12-17-2012, 11:21 PM)username Wrote:

(12-17-2012, 11:01 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote:

(12-17-2012, 07:17 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote:

(12-17-2012, 07:00 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote:

(12-17-2012, 05:57 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: As I've told Jim in the past, I'd love to see just one instance where a 'conceal and carry' person was in the immediate vicinity when something like this was unfolding, and just blasted the perp.

Check youtube dude, there are hundreds of them on there. Its started happening all the time, some asshole tries to rob a 7-11 or a internet cafe and Grandpa stands up and starts blasting the assholes.
Like I said earlier, more legal armed and trained citizens will make a more polit society

Are you talking about a convenience store and the clerk has a weapon?

That's great.

I'm talking about a 3^rd party intervening against a gun-wielding perp meaning to do harm to unarmed citizens.

No, Actually I wasn't. I was talking about the old guy at the internet in Ocala that ran off the gun weilding dirtbags that decided to come in and rob the place. And the grandpa in Miami in the line to get to the bank teller, he shot the robber dead right there in the bank lobby.
And this guy
http://www.ohio.com/news/break-news/man-...t-1.338558
And this guy
http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2012/10/co...stops.html
and this guy
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime...0f31a.html
Here is the guy in the internet cafe
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/surveill...e-robbers/
And this guy
http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/story...6wYHQ.cspx
You asked for one, there are a few that will keep you busy

I'm just wondering if any of those instances were a regular gun toting citizen going up against a person carrying an assault weapon? That would seem like taking a stick to a sword fight. I think you'd have to be damn stealthy plus an accurate marks person to win against someone with an assault weapon.

Sure to some degree, but most of the guys I know can shoot pretty good and it only takes a fraction of a second to have it out and on target. But if a guy is coming at you with a sword, things move pretty fast.
Oh, all those were handgun defences, its hard to conceil an ashault rifle

(12-17-2012, 11:25 PM)Jimbone Wrote: I thought this was a reasoned and fair approach to the current debate... FWIW to anyone interested:

http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2012...wn-debate/

I still don't see why average Joe's need assault type weapons with big magazine clips. Might as well give every citizen access to mini inter-ballistic weapons.

Some of you need to get the fuck over yourselves......
If I want to own any weapon, I'll buy it or obtain it. Criminals do the same!

Gun control will never work, stop trying to blame a symptom over the real problem.

No criminal will follow a gun control law, and good fucking luck in getting a law passed and then getting guns off the street.

What a waste of brain power.
Enjoy your bubble......