even a tiny bit? I just discovered, reading some links in the Ohio rape case thread, that the girl's attack might have been pre-planned and that the date rape drug may have been involved.

I noticed a very small shift in my perspective on the case. While a victim is always just that (a victim) and the perpetrators ought to be charged to the full extent of the law, I was slightly...relieved (for lack of a better term) that the victim might not have made the mistake of drinking herself practically unconscious at a party. Again, not to say anything subsequent was in any way her fault...okay, I lie. If that had been the case (she had drank herself unconscious) I would have this nagging little part of my brain that would say "why"? Why'd she do that? She shouldn't have done that now punish the shit out of those bastards for what they did to her while she was out, sick fucks.

Similarly, if some guy gets drunk, passes out on a sidewalk, and somebody beats him and steals his wallet, I'm going to have that same little part of my brain saying "dumb, dumb, DUMB, why'd you get drunk and pass out on the sidewalk"?

Thoughts?

It doesn't sound like you're blaming the victim for being violated as much as recognizing that as adults we are all responsible for guarding our own safety, as much as possible. When we neglect that responsibility, we make ourselves even more susceptible to the scum that prey on other people.

Predators can victimize anyone, even the most personally responsible and aware person. Why make oneself an easy target?

If someone fails to guard their own safety and gets victimized by a predator, it doesn't in any way mean that the victim was asking for it or got what they deserved. But, it's a sad fact that sometimes victims put themselves in the role of "easy targets". Undeserving targets, but targets nonetheless. It's frustrating and I think it's normal to ask "why?!".

It's especially frustrating for me when it's a parent who neglects their child or invites scumbags into the child's world and the child becomes victimized. I sometimes loathe and partially blame the parents for making the child vulnerable. But as you noted, the perpetrator always owns the ultimate blame in violating someone else and should be held fully responsible for the crimes committed.

I came across this the other day. It was posted with an Op/Ed piece about feminists going to far...


So is she "asking for it"?

(01-07-2013, 05:28 PM)username Wrote: even a tiny bit? I just discovered, reading some links in the Ohio rape case thread, that the girl's attack might have been pre-planned and that the date rape drug may have been involved.

I noticed a very small shift in my perspective on the case. While a victim is always just that (a victim) and the perpetrators ought to be charged to the full extent of the law, I was slightly...relieved (for lack of a better term) that the victim might not have made the mistake of drinking herself practically unconscious at a party. Again, not to say anything subsequent was in any way her fault...okay, I lie. If that had been the case (she had drank herself unconscious) I would have this nagging little part of my brain that would say "why"? Why'd she do that? She shouldn't have done that now punish the shit out of those bastards for what they did to her while she was out, sick fucks.

Similarly, if some guy gets drunk, passes out on a sidewalk, and somebody beats him and steals his wallet, I'm going to have that same little part of my brain saying "dumb, dumb, DUMB, why'd you get drunk and pass out on the sidewalk"?

Thoughts?

Yes to you're question. She had no business out there at any party with drinking involved, she was only 16 and drowning your brain in alcohol is not a lady like thing nor smart thing to be doing. Unfortunately too many little girls think drinking and taking pills is fun, it's not. I read stories of male students buying a funnel and hose to funnel down their throat as much beer as they can, then die from doing that.

Where was her mother and father? parents need to be more strict! where were they when they were hauling this girl house to house? Where were these boys parents?

Better parenting fewer victims I say! Most important job of all being a Mother and Father.

It's a slippery slope when you begin to blame the victim, even just a little bit.

Most crime can be prevented yet, perplexingly, the victim is never to blame.

(01-07-2013, 06:09 PM)cannongal Wrote: I came across this the other day. It was posted with an Op/Ed piece about feminists going to far...


So is she "asking for it"?

Damn DP.

(01-07-2013, 06:09 PM)cannongal Wrote: I came across this the other day. It was posted with an Op/Ed piece about feminists going to far...


So is she "asking for it"?

I don't view dress, or lack thereof, the same as losing control of your sense of judgment, thinking abilities. I would say no.

(01-07-2013, 06:15 PM)OnBendedKnee Wrote: It's a slippery slope when you begin to blame the victim, even just a little bit.

Most crime can be prevented yet, perplexingly, the victim is never to blame.

That makes a lot of sense.

I don't know, I guess it depends on the circumstances. Teenagers are known to go to parties and drink alcohol no matter how much you drill in to their heads to use good judgment and not do anything stupid. What if it was your daughter that had more to drink then she thought she could handle, got sick, passed out and was raped and urinated on?

A coke head stripper that leaves the bar everynight with a different guy, yeah she head it coming. A kid that was drinking shots with her friends at a party, not so much.

(01-07-2013, 07:32 PM)sally Wrote: A coke head stripper that leaves the bar everynight with a different guy...

You say that ^^^ in an almost derogatory manner.

I've never had occasion to speak in glowing terms of a slut, have you?

Never mind, don't answer that.

(01-07-2013, 07:34 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote:

(01-07-2013, 07:32 PM)sally Wrote: A coke head stripper that leaves the bar everynight with a different guy...

You say that ^^^ in an almost derogatory manner.

Not at all. When you pick up a whore the worst case scenario is she might end up slightly annoyed because you jewed her down on the price and lasted forever. Unfortunately some of the other whores aren't as lucky and end up in a body bag.

(01-07-2013, 07:32 PM)sally Wrote: A coke head stripper that leaves the bar everynight with a different guy, yeah she head it coming. A kid that was drinking shots with her friends at a party, not so much.

This is the slippery slope OBK was talking about. For all we know this girl could be highly promiscuous and get snot slinging drunk regularly. She is a kid (so that changes things for me) but what if she were 20?

(01-07-2013, 07:48 PM)sally Wrote:

(01-07-2013, 07:34 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote:

(01-07-2013, 07:32 PM)sally Wrote: A coke head stripper that leaves the bar everynight with a different guy...

You say that ^^^ in an almost derogatory manner.

Not at all. When you pick up a whore the worst case scenario is she might end up slightly annoyed because you jewed her down on the price and lasted forever.

I don't know of one guy who wouldn't be proud of his stamina.

(01-07-2013, 08:18 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote:

(01-07-2013, 07:48 PM)sally Wrote:

(01-07-2013, 07:34 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote:

(01-07-2013, 07:32 PM)sally Wrote: A coke head stripper that leaves the bar everynight with a different guy...

You say that ^^^ in an almost derogatory manner.

Not at all. When you pick up a whore the worst case scenario is she might end up slightly annoyed because you jewed her down on the price and lasted forever.

I don't know of one guy who wouldn't be proud of his stamina.

You might be proud of it, but the woman is madder than a skinhead watching The Jeffersons.

I hope hookers raised their rates after medicines like Viagra came on the market. "If you have an erection lasting more than 4 hours...". That shit could really fuck with income levels. You'd at least have to charge by the hour. None of this $200 and you get laid. No, no, no.

(01-07-2013, 08:02 PM)username Wrote:

(01-07-2013, 07:32 PM)sally Wrote: A coke head stripper that leaves the bar everynight with a different guy, yeah she head it coming. A kid that was drinking shots with her friends at a party, not so much.

This is the slippery slope OBK was talking about. For all we know this girl could be highly promiscuous and get snot slinging drunk regularly. She is a kid (so that changes things for me) but what if she were 20?

Is this a serious question?

I don't care if she's 16 or 40, the prom queen or a worn-out hooker. If someone makes him/herself an easier target by not being in full control of their faculties or choosing a higher risk lifestyle, it's not surprising to me when that someone is violated by a predator. But, it makes no difference at all as to whether I consider that person a victim and the violent criminally-minded asshole who chose to exploit and prey on another person's vulnerability fully to blame.

What if it was one of the Romeo football players that gets wasted every weekend and was anally raped, defecated on, and publicly humiliated by a bunch of other guys, or even girls with a pipe? Would you be asking if he is to blame because he's a sexually active partier? It's surprising to me that the "slut" bullshit is even a consideration in this question.

So, to answer the question, if she were 20, she wouldn't be any more to blame than if she were 16 (to me).

And yet, HotD, you agreed that it's reasonable to ask "why". I'm not agreeing that the coke head stripper is asking for it. I'm acknowledging OBK's post that blaming the victim, even a tiny bit, is a slippery slope.

And? Scratching our heads and asking "why?" people act foolishly and against their own best interests is one thing. It's in no way synonymous with asking whether a rape victim is at all to blame because of her (or his) age, degree of consensual sexual activity, lifestyle, etc...

I obviously feel very strongly about this; I don't mean to jump on you for asking the question and it's a good discussion. I think I'm just frustrated that the question still gets asked by society in general.