(06-04-2013, 01:12 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote: Tactics, skills and surprise play a Much bigger part.

Skills? In a previous post you stated Martin didn't have the “skill” to throw a decent punch and was “windmilling” his opponent like all “hood rats” do. Are you now saying Martin did use “skills” if he attacked Zimmerman?

Surprise? I think we have more or less establised that Martin DID NOT JUMP ZIMMERMAN FROM BEHIND OR FROM A CONCEALED POSITION. They had a face to face confrontation and Martin said to Zimmerman something along the lines of “what's your problem?

Tactics? Are you now claiming the “hood rat” had the brains to use tactical thinking?

(06-04-2013, 02:07 PM)Cynical Ninja Wrote:

(06-04-2013, 01:12 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote: Tactics, skills and surprise play a Much bigger part.

Skills? In a previous post you stated Martin didn't have the “skill” to throw a decent punch and was “windmilling” his opponent like all “hood rats” do. Are you now saying Martin did use “skills” if he attacked Zimmerman?

Surprise? I think we have more or less establised that Martin DID NOT JUMP ZIMMERMAN FROM BEHIND OR FROM A CONCEALED POSITION. They had a face to face confrontation and Martin said to Zimmerman something along the lines of “what's your problem?

Tactics? Are you now claiming the “hood rat” had the brains to use tactical thinking?

Oh OP, you forget that SF is a macho, gun toting, bad ass biker and professionally trained fighting machine. Of course in his case skills and tactic play a bigger role, just like Bruce Lee. On the other hand nigger wannabe thugs don't need any proper attack strategy, especially if they're hopped up on tea and candy.

Gag me with a fucking spoon already.

As I was doing a little homework on this case I ran across this pic of the area it all went down. After seeing the pic of the area and how small the area is, I have to wonder exactly how far Z followed T. If it was just inside his little community it sure dont look like it could be very far, that is if T used the most direct route from the 7-11. I assume that a person that was just out to pick up a snack, in the rain and unfamiliar with the area, would use the most direct route. If that is so, the distance from the entrance to this are and the location where the shooting happened looks to be just a matter of a 3-4 homes/buildings.

Here is the pic.




Link where I got this pic.
http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wo...eg-map.jpg


And here is a link to the location I found the above link.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012...-skittles/

the State of Florida calls the ragtag bunch at the conservative tree house "anonymous internet trolls".

FU just showed his hand.

Sorry Adub, I have no idea what you are talking about. I found this link when I did a search for tea and skittles.

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG...tart=1&b=1


ETA...
I also found this pic through that search, what is your opinion of this pic Adub?

Ok after a short read it does appear that the treehouse site is very pro Z. I did not know this when I posted that link, but does the fact that they are pro Z make that pic of the location any less relevant?

This is the Sanford PD interview/re-enactment with George at the scene.

It gave me a better idea of the size of the area and what George claims went down, without any liberal or conservative slants.

Just George and the detective.

(06-04-2013, 04:24 PM)F.U. Dont ask again Wrote: Ok after a short read it does appear that the treehouse site is very pro Z. I did not know this when I posted that link, but does the fact that they are pro Z make that pic of the location any less relevant?

Not at all. From the clubhouse where Zimmerman said he called NE911, to the area behind the townhomes where Trayvon was shot is about 550 ft.

(06-04-2013, 05:09 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: This is the Sanford PD interview/re-enactment with George at the scene.

It gave me a better idea of the size of the area and what George claims went down, without any liberal or conservative slants.

Just George and the detective.

That is the first time I had seen those videos HotD, thanks for posting them.

A couple things I noticed were, The houses are much larger than they looked in the pic I posted.

In video 1 I question why T was not walking on the side of the street that had a sidewalk. Instead he was walking on the other side of the street, in the grass, in the rain, wearing white shoes. I wonder if lighting had anything to do with this and if so, what side of the street has the lights, if either do.

During most of the time Z was following T he was on the phone with the cops and he was answering their questions. It wasn't until right at the end of the "foot pursuit" that the dispatcher told him they did not need him to look for T any longer. At that point Z walked to the nearest point where he could give dispatch a address then turned around and headed towards his auto. It wasn't until that point where the confrontation happened. I do question why Z would go through the trouble, in the rain, to walk out to the road to get a address and then tell the dispatcher to meet him at his auto instead of at the address he just searched for.

I question the fact that during the struggle T had seen Z's black firearm, in the dark. It is possible that T felt Z's firearm and knew what it was. I say that because I have bumped into people while shopping or at work and felt their firearm and I absolutely knew what I had just felt.


These videos do help me understand the area, timing and distances of this incident.

(06-04-2013, 05:32 PM)Adub Wrote:

(06-04-2013, 04:24 PM)F.U. Dont ask again Wrote: Ok after a short read it does appear that the treehouse site is very pro Z. I did not know this when I posted that link, but does the fact that they are pro Z make that pic of the location any less relevant?

Not at all. From the clubhouse where Zimmerman said he called NE911, to the area behind the townhomes where Trayvon was shot is about 550 ft.

550 feet is not that far to travel. Especially if a person is trying to hustle to get out of the rain.

I just did a quick search asking how long it would take the average person to walk 550 feet and the answer I got was,

It would take 1 minute and 53.64 seconds to walk 500 feet if you walk at 3 mph. That is the average walking speed.


A taller person with longer legs, hurrying to get away/out of the rain could cover more distance in less time.

Looking back at the HLN photos that HotD posted, I'm surprised George didn't have more of Trayvon's blood on him of T was on top of him when George shot him.

Also, the back of his head in those pics, it looks like G got a damn paper cut (okay, I exaggerate but close). Doesn't look at all life threatening or like someone repeatedly having their head slammed on concrete.

(06-04-2013, 05:47 PM)username Wrote: Looking back at the HLN photos that HotD posted, I'm surprised George didn't have more of Trayvon's blood on him of T was on top of him when George shot him.

Also, the back of his head in those pics, it looks like G got a damn paper cut (okay, I exaggerate but close). Doesn't look at all life threatening or like someone repeatedly having their head slammed on concrete.

Bullet wounds are different than people think. Entrance wounds tend to be very small. It is the exit wound that gets rather ugly. Keep in mind that a 9mm bullet is just .355 inch in dia. That small of a hole and a shirt and hoodie to soak up any blood that may come out would keep most, if not all, of the blood off Z.

I have seen, while deer hunting, a deer take a 12g slug [MUCH larger than a 9mm] and run 30-40 yards before the blood trail will start. The same goes when bow hunting and a broadhead is 1 ⁷⁄₈ inches in dia. So the lack of blood don't really surprise me.

I do however agree with you on the wounds Z has. I would think that after getting his head bashed into a sidewalk a few times there would be much more road rash than that.

(06-04-2013, 05:46 PM)F.U. Dont ask again Wrote:

(06-04-2013, 05:32 PM)Adub Wrote: From the clubhouse where Zimmerman said he called NE911, to the area behind the townhomes where Trayvon was shot is about 550 ft.

550 feet is not that far to travel. Especially if a person is trying to hustle to get out of the rain.

I just did a quick search asking how long it would take the average person to walk 550 feet and the answer I got was,

It would take 1 minute and 53.64 seconds to walk 500 feet if you walk at 3 mph. That is the average walking speed.


A taller person with longer legs, hurrying to get away/out of the rain could cover more distance in less time.

Which fits in with George's NE911 call and the timestamps.
Transcript of 911 Call Made by George Zimmerman
February 26, 2012 - 7:09-7:10 - Length of Call: 4:07

Zimmerman:
We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy. It’s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.
This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about. [00:25]

911 dispatcher:
OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman:
He looks black.

911 dispatcher:
Did you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman:
Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. He’s here now … he’s just staring. [00:42]

911 dispatcher:
He’s just walking around the area, the houses? OK.

Zimmerman:
Now he’s staring at me. [00:48]

911 dispatcher:
OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111?

Zimmerman:
That’s the clubhouse.

911 dispatcher:
He’s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman:
Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.
And he’s a black male.[1:03]

911 dispatcher:
How old would you say he is?

Zimmerman:
He’s got something on his shirt. About like his late teens.

911 dispatcher:
Late teens?

Zimmerman:
Uh, huh.
Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out.
He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. [01:20]

911 dispatcher:
Let me know if he does anything, OK?

Zimmerman:
OK.

911 dispatcher:
We’ve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

Zimmerman:
OK.
These assholes. They always get away.
When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse. [1:39]

911 dispatcher:
OK, so it’s on the left hand side of the clubhouse?

Zimmerman:
Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, don’t turn and make a left.
He’s running. [2:08]

911 dispatcher:
He’s running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman:
Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14]

911 dispatcher:
OK, which entrance is that he’s headed towards?

Zimmerman:
The back entrance.
Zimmerman says under his breath, ‘F-ing ?????’ at 2:22]

911 dispatcher:
Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman:
Yeah. [2:25]

911 dispatcher:
OK.
We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

Zimmerman:
OK. [2:28]

The direction that T is running in, is that the direction to the house he was staying at? I know he was killed only feet from that residence, right?

(06-04-2013, 02:07 PM)Cynical Ninja Wrote:

(06-04-2013, 01:12 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote: Tactics, skills and surprise play a Much bigger part.

Skills? In a previous post you stated Martin didn't have the “skill” to throw a decent punch and was “windmilling” his opponent like all “hood rats” do. Are you now saying Martin did use “skills” if he attacked Zimmerman?

Surprise? I think we have more or less establised that Martin DID NOT JUMP ZIMMERMAN FROM BEHIND OR FROM A CONCEALED POSITION. They had a face to face confrontation and Martin said to Zimmerman something along the lines of “what's your problem?

Tactics? Are you now claiming the “hood rat” had the brains to use tactical thinking?

Yo man, you really need to work on the reading comprehension skills.
In the part of my post that you ignored, I was responding to Adubs suggestion that height and weight indicate that Z should have been on top of the skirmish.
My point is that H&W don't always mean much. You should be able to understand these concepts. In previous posts I came right out and stated that T had no training, no tactics and not much in the way in brains, neither did Z, thats why he is dead.
From Z's version of things, what T did have was surprise, he supposedly jumped Z from behind, that constitutes surprise. I'll spell it out for you, an untrained, uneducated, unskilled attacker can have a good shot at a more qualified opponent If he is able to surprise or attack from behind, got it?
I don't know how tough is, was, I suspect not very. I also do not know how tough T was, also not very, but likely as not, more so that Z.

Got it? Do I need to type slower?

Duch, Looking at the pic I posted and using the distances Adub has posted I would say it is 3 houses and could be up to 400 feet, but that is just my guess judging from that pic.

(06-04-2013, 06:24 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote:

(06-04-2013, 02:07 PM)Cynical Ninja Wrote:

(06-04-2013, 01:12 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote: Tactics, skills and surprise play a Much bigger part.

Skills? In a previous post you stated Martin didn't have the “skill” to throw a decent punch and was “windmilling” his opponent like all “hood rats” do. Are you now saying Martin did use “skills” if he attacked Zimmerman?

Surprise? I think we have more or less establised that Martin DID NOT JUMP ZIMMERMAN FROM BEHIND OR FROM A CONCEALED POSITION. They had a face to face confrontation and Martin said to Zimmerman something along the lines of “what's your problem?

Tactics? Are you now claiming the “hood rat” had the brains to use tactical thinking?

From Z's version of things, what T did have was surprise, he supposedly jumped Z from behind, that constitutes surprise. I'll spell it out for you, an untrained, uneducated, unskilled attacker can have a good shot at a more qualified opponent If he is able to surprise or attack from behind, got it?

NO IT'S NOT!!! Z says they were facing one another (talking) and T punched him.

No offense Six but that keeps being touted as Z's story but it isn't.

OK, after looking over those videos HotD posted, the pic I posted and some common sense here is what I have came up with. The white line is what I would believe to be the route T would have taken. It is the shortest distance and that would be what a person would take if they are trying to get out of the rain. The #1 is the point where I believe Z spotted T. I now believe T was on the sidewalk less side of the street because he was taking the fastest route. Going all the way to the gate/street would have taken longer.

The #2 is where Z said he pulled over and called the cops.

The #3 is where Z parked the car and started following T on foot. The pic shows where the house T was staying is [ the dotted line is probably the intended path to that house. The pic also shows where the shooting occurred and that spot is on that path.

The pic also shows where Z's house is and if he was heading to the store he would be driving down that street and could have came in contact with T at the corner where he said he first seen him.

From this info I tend to believe that most of the story in those videos HotD posted is true. The only thing I am now questioning is the injuries to the back of Z's head. The busted bleeding nose tends to make me believe that T did in fact bust Z in the nose.


Can anyone point out where my theory/route/timeline is flawed?

(06-04-2013, 06:36 PM)username Wrote:

(06-04-2013, 06:24 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote:

(06-04-2013, 02:07 PM)Cynical Ninja Wrote:

(06-04-2013, 01:12 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote: Tactics, skills and surprise play a Much bigger part.

Skills? In a previous post you stated Martin didn't have the “skill” to throw a decent punch and was “windmilling” his opponent like all “hood rats” do. Are you now saying Martin did use “skills” if he attacked Zimmerman?

Surprise? I think we have more or less establised that Martin DID NOT JUMP ZIMMERMAN FROM BEHIND OR FROM A CONCEALED POSITION. They had a face to face confrontation and Martin said to Zimmerman something along the lines of “what's your problem?

Tactics? Are you now claiming the “hood rat” had the brains to use tactical thinking?

From Z's version of things, what T did have was surprise, he supposedly jumped Z from behind, that constitutes surprise. I'll spell it out for you, an untrained, uneducated, unskilled attacker can have a good shot at a more qualified opponent If he is able to surprise or attack from behind, got it?

NO IT'S NOT!!! Z says they were facing one another (talking) and T punched him.

No offense Six but that keeps being touted as Z's story but it isn't.

The way I see it user is Z was approached from behind. I think the term Jumped is a bit strong. Then according to Hotd'S videos T asked Z if he had a problem, Z said no and then T said ya do now and busted him in the nose. That is when the "fight" started.

If this is the case the entire confrontation could have ben avoided had T just kept walking towards the house he was staying at. After all Z said he had no idea where T had disappeared to and was heading back towards his auto.


All this is assuming that the only evidence we have right now, Z's side of the story, is true. In my opinion that is possible.

I hear you FU but if Z was following T that entire time, I don't fault T for confronting G. Sure, he could have kept walking but he was as entitled to stand his ground as G.

Besides the head wound (or seeming lack thereof) the other forensic evidence that bothers me is the lack of G's blood on T. One spot on his hoodie. That's it. If you're punching someone 25 times and smashing their head in to the pavement...I would expect to see some of Z's blood on T's hands. At least a few smears or something.