(06-24-2013, 07:20 PM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote:

(06-24-2013, 07:15 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: ^ I corrected that mistake before you replied, Zero. Sorry for the confusion.

To clarify then. Is it the prosecution that wants the calls included but the defense wants them excluded. And the grounds are that they are more inflammatory then probative in scope. Who is declaring them 'past bad acts'?

The prosecution wants them in. They contend that they go towards George's state of mind (as in, why he "profiled" Trayvon as "suspicious"...).

The defense is contending that the previous calls aren't relevant and don't go towards George's state of mind at the time, so it's as as though the prosecution is introducing "prior bad acts". Messy arguments the defense made there, but that's essentially it to the best of my understanding.

I think that the defense understands how those previous calls are relevant to establishing state of mind, but they don't want the jury to hear them. They could either argue that the calls indeed can be classified as prior bad acts and shouldn't be let in (using the legal definition of "prior bad acts") because they're too prejudicial. Or, they could keep trying to argue that they're not relevant to state of mind. These are just my guesses/opinions/understanding. I think they'd have better luck with the former strategy than the latter, but will likely fail either way and the call(s) will be heard by the jury. JMO.

We'll see where it ends up tomorrow morning.

(06-24-2013, 07:19 PM)username Wrote: I wonder if opening the door to George's prior acts opens the door for O'Mara to bring up supposed prior acts of Trayvon? Anyone?

I don't think the prior acts cross-over, like that. Anyways that is my understanding. So if the defense says George is all good, George gets slammed with prior bad acts. If the state says Trayvon is all good then Trayvon gets slammed with prior bad acts. No tit for tat.

Thanks HotD and Adub The nuances in this trial are important.

BOMBSHELL!

Pray for me. I'm listening to Nancy Grace.

(06-24-2013, 07:23 PM)Adub Wrote: I missed a lot. My life is being consumed by a five-year-old. Even the promise of Disneyland isn't enough to get him to back-off.

And after today, Disneyland probably appears to be some what threatening.

Got to see more than usual today, but still had to miss some here and there.

This was in an LA Times write up; I missed it during testimony. Certainly not what O'Mara wanted to hear the 911 operator/witness say during the course of questioning him about George's following.

Under cross-examination, Noffke told defense attorney Mark O’Mara, “It’s best to avoid any kind of confrontation, to just get away from the situation.”

George could have just stayed in his truck. Still, the defense addressed that view from another angle by estimating that Trayvon had time to go back and forth to the home he was visiting 5 or 6 times, but instead chose to stay on the phone hiding, waiting to confront George (from West's opening statement; was a little hard to follow his time line).

West's opening was 5 times longer for the defense than Guy's was for the prosecution. I thought West went too long and was hard to follow. Didn't see Guy do the prosecution's opening this morning, but just watched the video; intense and emotional. He hit the major points rapidly.

Here's the prosecution's opening statement:


I think the prosecution had a much better first day than the defense, even disregarding opening statements.

West and O'Mara were pushing the judge's buttons all day and didn't really get anywhere during cross-examination of the state's witnesses, imo.

BBC news report.

A Florida neighbourhood watchman shot dead an unarmed black teenager “because he wanted to”, a prosecutor has said at the start of his murder trial.

George Zimmerman, 29, was a vigilante who presumed Trayvon Martin was up to no good, the jury of six women heard.

But a defence lawyer said Mr Zimmerman acted out of self defence after Trayvon, 17, attacked him in Sandford, an Orlando suburb in February 2012.

Mr Zimmerman has pleaded not guilty to second degree murder.

End of report.

Court's in session. Attorneys are present and arguing the admissibility of Zimmerman's previous 911 calls.

SANFORD, Fla. (AP) -- Prosecutors in the George Zimmerman trial want to introduce recordings of non-emergency calls he made to law enforcement to prove the former neighborhood watch leader is guilty of second-degree murder in shooting Trayvon Martin last year.

Prosecutors planned to try to convince Judge Debra Nelson on Tuesday that a series of calls Zimmerman made to authorities about suspicious people in his central Florida neighborhood in the weeks and months before the fatal shooting are indicative of the state of mind he had that night.

But late Monday, defense attorneys objected to the introduction of the previous calls during the questioning of a witness, saying they were being used to show prior bad acts by Zimmerman. The defense maintains this should not be admissible under the rules of evidence.

Watch here:
http://www.wptv.com/generic/news/nationa...e-coverage

I think those phone calls are relevant & I think the phone call that night does show his state of mind in that he was disgusted that they always get away. He wanted that person stopped from getting away.

Copied from jack Cashills blog:


Assistant State Attorney John Guy dropped the F-bomb in the very first word of his opening statement in the State of Florida v. George Zimmerman. "F***ing punks," Guy said dramatically, attempting to quote George Zimmerman's garbled comment to the police dispatcher on the night he shot Trayvon Martin in February 2012.


A year or so ago, the reader will recall, CNN and other media worthies attempted to convince America that the indecipherable word in question was "coons" as in "f***ing coons." At the time, not everyone was on board for this nonsense. Liberal media pundit Jon Stewart said on his show what most dispassionate observers were thinking of the utterance in question, "That doesn't sound like a word at all!"


That prosecutor Guy would repeat the "F***ing punks" phrase repeatedly in his opening showed how shaky and insubstantial the case against Zimmerman is. If Guy had a strength, it is that he is young and telegenic. His weakness was everything else.


In his final statement, Guy showed how willing the State is to contort the facts to fit its second degree murder charge. Zimmerman, Guy claimed, "did not shoot Trayvon Martin because he had to. He shot him for the worst of all reasons -- because he wanted to."


"He wanted to?" Even Guy had to admit that Martin was straddling Zimmerman, that Zimmerman did get his nose bashed and his head cut open, but Guy tried to undo the impact of these concessions by minimizing the severity of Zimmerman's wounds.


The state's most flagrant misrepresentation, one that will likely not survive the day, revolved around the source of the screams for help clearly heard for roughly 40 seconds on one of the 911 calls. "You will hear screaming in the background," said Guy, then slyly adding, "Trayvon Martin was silenced immediately when the bullet fired passed through his heart."


The State knows that it was Zimmerman who was screaming. Guy consciously deceived the jurors in his opening by suggesting otherwise. Defense attorneys do this kind of thing to raise the specter of "reasonable doubt." Prosecutors are not supposed to.


"That's when he began to spin that tangled web of lies," Guy said of the bloodied and rattled Zimmerman when questioned by the police within a minute of the shooting. No, Zimmerman did not have the time or the skill to lie. The State has had sixteen months.

So, Matei made his case as to why the previous 911 calls go towards state of mind and cited 5 or 6 case laws. Matei's says they're clearly relevant and the defense has been aware of the witness and the previous calls being part of the state's case for months.

O'Mara made his case that, essentially, the prosecution was using previous "good" acts to lead the jury into thinking they were previous "bad" acts and then to draw the jury into a belief that all of these previous acts had Zimmerman seething under the surface and to show bad character. O'Mara says they are therefore not relevant under the rules of evidence regarding previous acts; O'Mara doesn't believe that anything in the defense's opening or his cross of the 911 operator opened doors for those calls to be played for the jury.

That's a nutshell summary based on my understanding.

Nelson will review the arguments and evidence and make a ruling on the admissibility of the previous 911 calls later.

Testimony continues now without those previous 911 calls.

Prosecution Witnesses - testimony day 2

Wendy Dorival is the liaison between the Sanford Police and Neighborhood Watch communities.

I think she was just as helpful to the defense on cross as she was to the prosecution, maybe moreso.

She explained her role, confirmed that George Zimmerman contacted her to set up the program at Twin Lakes, explained the contents of her presentation which includes not being "vigilante police" and "not following", when to call non-emergency vs. emergency 911, talked about a woman from Twin Lakes who'd been burglarized while her baby was in the house and terrified she was.

She also confirmed that the program recommended block captains that George was to coordinate/assign, but that never happened.

Dorival said she never advises neighborhood watch participants regarding carrying firearms or not. Watch participants are to call 911 if they see anyone or anything suspicious. If they're not sure whether it's a non-emergency, they should just call 911.

Dorival has a high opinion of Zimmerman, imo. She said he was very concerned and wanted to help; he was always professional, meek and polite.

The defense attempted to have her read a letter that George Zimmerman sent to the Sanford Police praising Dorival's work, but the prosecution objected and the letter was barred.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Donald O'Brien, President of The Home Owners Association was up next.

He explained that the HOA has nothing to do with neighborhood watch; George Zimmerman went to the Sanford Police to set up the program. (The HOA settled a civil suit with the Martins; O'Brien seemed very sensitive and a little curt in his testimony, imo,)

He was at the NW start-up meeting. It was clear, he said, that community members should call 911 and let police handle it; no following or pursuing.

He explained a situation where a burglar was caught because some construction workers saw him acting strangely, followed him, and called police. He sent an email to the NW members and told them of the capture; George Zimmerman was on the email blast. (I think the prosecution is trying to imply that George wanted that same kind of glory that came with a capture so he ignored the "not following" rules and pursued Trayvon - JMO).

George Zimmerman was the liaison between Twin Lakes NW and Sanford Police. That entailed consolidating community inquires, requests, and such...and interfacing with Dorival.


So far, I think the the defense is having a much better day today than yesterday with cross-examination and making some of its direct and indirect points to the jury,

Court's in recess for lunch.

(06-25-2013, 09:22 AM)Duchess Wrote:

I think those phone calls are relevant & I think the phone call that night does show his state of mind in that he was disgusted that they always get away. He wanted that person stopped from getting away.

It was interesting to hear the previous 911 calls played in court (outside of jury presence) this morning. Zimmerman made a lot of calls reporting suspicious persons and activities.

I won't be surprised if Nelson keeps the calls out for now (with a stipulation that they can be introduced later if the defense opens the door wide enough in future testimony), but think she's going to let them in based on state of mind case law cited and the door being opened by O'Mara in questioning the 911 Operator about whether George could have misinterpreted his request for the subject's direction as an invitation to follow.

Anxious to hear the ruling, hope it comes tomorrow. It could have a big impact on the prosecution's case.

Shown in court today -

The shirt T was wearing when George shot him -



T dead -





George's weapon -



T was found like this by the first officer on the scene -



George in court today -

Thanks, Duchess. Didn't get to watch this afternoon.

Just heard the last bit of one of the eyewitnesses on HLN. She's the one that said it was really dark and she saw two men standing with their arms flailing, which contradicts George's story of being knocked straight to the ground.

From what I saw, she didn't seem too sure about what she witnessed. O'Mara's question about her liking a Facebook page calling for justice for Trayvon Martin might not be a big deal, but it didn't help establish credibility.

Trial is moving pretty quickly. I'm still undecided as to what went down and hope there are some stronger witnesses coming up. Really doesn't look like George is going to testify, imo.

I only caught bits and pieces too but O'Mara kept hammering on the witness about the left to right statement and how she'd never mentioned that before. I kept thinking "duh, she probably wasn't asked that specific question before" and I think the prosecutor ultimately said the same thing.

(06-25-2013, 08:24 PM)username Wrote: I only caught bits and pieces too but O'Mara kept hammering on the witness about the left to right statement and how she'd never mentioned that before. I kept thinking "duh, she probably wasn't asked that specific question before" and I think the prosecutor ultimately said the same thing.

Just watched her testimony. She's Selene Bahadoor.

Yeah, seems clear nobody asked her about the direction of the running before.

I believe she's telling the truth about what she thinks she saw, but she's not completely certain.

Wish the complex had been better lit. Worried that even if she's correct in what she perceived was going down, the jury might write her off because of the "like" to the Trayvon justice page, signing the petition to have Zimmerman prosecuted, and stating that she didn't realize she'd seen anything important at the time. None of which means she's not being truthful, but together I can see the jury possibly finding her questionable.

West mentioned in his opening statement about another witness who says she saw George on top of Trayyon. If that witness is believable and despite the darkness, could be enough for the jury to doubt George's story.

P.s. Even after reading so much about this case for so long, it was really saddening to see photos of Trayvon lying dead, face-first in the grass.

Busy day in court.

Rulings/Actions:

1. Judge Nelson ruled that Zimmerman's 911 calls are admissible.

2. One alternate juror was dismissed (the reason is not related to the case according to HLN).

Testimony:

Got HLN on in the background. Another of the 911 callers is on the stand being cross-examined by West.

Jayne Surdyka is the prosecution witness who saw one man on top of the other from her second floor window.

She had previously heard a very aggravated voice that she says was a man. She says she heard a boy screaming for help and a yelp. She heard "pop, pop, pop". She called 911.

She's the caller that was crying and panicky and says, "Oh my god I don't know what he did to that person." She says Zimmerman walked towards her door in a manner, like "what did I do?".

West is trying to get Surdyka to admit that Zimmerman could have sounded like a boy and Trayvon like a man. He's also trying to put words into her mouth, imo. Surdyka isn't getting frazzled. She just says, "I guess so". She seems very confident in her perceptions of what she heard.

Surdyka is a good witness for the prosecution.

George should not have followed Trayvon. Guilty! JMO

I think George's weight gain is going to work against him. If the jurors don't really digest that he was much smaller back then, the witness accounts that the "bigger" person was on top in the scuffle might seem more credible since he's so huge now.

Trayvon's friend can't fucking speak up. Jesus. She's fucking slow. My 99 year old grandma could talk circles around her.