(07-02-2013, 02:33 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: Therefore he very nicely discredited the fact that T didn't have any blood on his hands.

You do this all the time. That comment works for you. If that were a true statement there would have been blood evidence even if George managed to swallow a lot of it. *gags* In your mind, you were swayed and willing to buy it, not everyone is as easily led as you are.

(07-02-2013, 03:01 PM)Duchess Wrote:

(07-02-2013, 02:33 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: Therefore he very nicely discredited the fact that T didn't have any blood on his hands.

You do this all the time. That comment works for you. If that were a true statement there would have been blood evidence even if George managed to swallow a lot of it. *gags* In your mind, you were swayed and willing to buy it, not everyone is as easily led as you are.

Well, let's put it this way, after O'Mara elicited this testimony, the prosecutor had a chance to re-re-re-examine to try and refute it, but chose not to.

Point for O'Mara in my book.

I guess I'm just a sheep.

Baa!

(07-02-2013, 03:03 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: I guess I'm just a sheep.

Baa!

(07-02-2013, 02:59 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: Maybe I'm not listening, but you're not understanding.

I'm listening AND understanding unlike a lot of men I can multitask.

What you are doing is ignoring all the points I make because you CAN'T answer them while I address all of your points because I CAN answer them.

Those that CAN, DO.

(07-02-2013, 03:21 PM)Cynical Ninja Wrote:

(07-02-2013, 02:59 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: Maybe I'm not listening, but you're not understanding.

I'm listening AND understanding unlike a lot of men I can multitask.

What you are doing is ignoring all the points I make because you CAN'T answer them while I address all of your points because I CAN answer them.

Those that CAN, DO.

Here's what you're not understanding.

This testimony was given by the lead investigator today.

Don't you think the prosecutor, given the opportunity, would've tried his best to show the jury that any blood flowing from Z would OBVIOUSLY be all over T if he was on top of him and striking him? I think that would be a point he would love to make.

He chose not to on re-direct.

I'm not a member of the prosecution team in this case the last time I checked? No! I'm still not an American lawyer, ah well maybe in the next life!

What I am doing is giving MY opinion on the various aspects of the case and making points and asking questions about it. None of which you have tried to address or answer because you can't.

The fact the prosecution chose not to press ahead on a subject to re-direct more questions does not in any way, shape or form invalidate any points I have made or questions I have asked. All of which you continue to ignore or address because let's face it you can't.

I think that Judge Nelson's ruling on whether or not to allow the prosecution to present George's studies in Criminal Justice is an important one for the prosecution.

The prosecution wants to show that George was a wanna-be cop and suggest that he was out to catch bad guys and overzealous. The defense feels that George's studies are irrelevant.

The prosecution wants to introduce into evidence the fact that George took a Stand Your Ground class and put the professor on the stand. The defense objects again on the grounds of relevance.

The state is a long way from showing intent and depraved mind, imo. This ruling in their favor would go towards state of mind and could help get them get closer, if handled expertly and not torn up on cross by O'Mara.

IMO.

(07-02-2013, 04:17 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I think that Judge Nelson's ruling on whether or not to allow the prosecution to present George's studies in Criminal Justice is an important one for the prosecution.

The prosecution wants to introduce into evidence the fact that George took a Stand Your Ground class and put the professor on the stand.

The defense objects again on the grounds of relevance.

It's an excellent strategy.

I'd hope that the class emphasized the options for retreat and de-escalation.

If the professor can verify this (and Zim didn't cut class during this segment of the course), tubbie should be held to a higher standard than an "average" citizen.

In other words: He should know better!

Flip side: If Skittles is deemed (by action or "vibe") to be an aggressor, it might go well for the defense.

Good for the Judge.

^ The prosecution really needs a favorable ruling on this circumstantial evidence, imo.

They also want to introduce George's rejection letter for entry into the PD and his request to do a ride-along with officers; they're likely looking to use it to support their contention that Zimmerman was a frustrated wanna-be-cop turned vigilante.

If the judge allows any or all of it to be presented to the jury and the prosecution isn't absolutely compelling in tying this circumstantial evidence and testimony into its theory, I can see the defense turning it around on cross and successfully positioning Zimmerman as an alert and committed citizen - dedicated and educated towards keeping his community safe in accordance with the law. Same is true for playing Zimmerman's previous 911 calls to report suspicious activity in the neighborhood, which the judge ruled admissible as going towards state-of-mind last week.

The hearing is at 5:30 a.m. PST tomorrow (hope I'm not up to watch it live, though the hearings in this case have been very interesting - entertaining dynamic between the judge and the attorneys for both sides.)

(07-02-2013, 02:33 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote:

(07-02-2013, 02:28 PM)username Wrote:

(07-02-2013, 02:26 PM)Cynical Ninja Wrote: Did they claim T tried to smother Z with his hand after Z's nose injury was caused? Because if that was the case T's smothering hand would have been covered with blood and the only blood on Ts hand was a small smudge.

Good catch! That's exactly what they're saying; that Z was using both hands and covering T's nose and mouth.

O'Mara said if Z was lying on his back, the blood from his nose actually wouldn't come out but would flow back down his throat.

Therefore he very nicely discredited the fact that T didn't have any blood on his hands.

Yeah right! Except the tiny little factoid that GZ was screaming bloody murder. All while Trayvon was pinching GZ's nosed closed with one hand, covering GZ's mouth with other, and swallowing Blood? Lot's of blood? I'm not getting how GZ could be yelling help me, help me, glub, glub, glub. And then scream that death scream that ended with the gunshot. All while his fucking throat is filling up with blood. You got two tubes in that throat. One for breathing and one for swallowing. You can't use them both at the same time with out choking, and coughing. So George was either swallowing, or screaming for his life. You pick.

Yeah!

My, my , my.... a little heated Adub?

Did you hear the part where the screams were intermittent (according to the tape)?

To me intermittent would then completely explain a hand over a mouth, or swallowing blood, etc.

Holy shit Adub, I know you think GZ is a complete lying bastard, but let's let this play out and see what happens.

What if Trayvon did sucker punch him as a few here have speculated? Does that matter at all or did GZ just automatically deserve that because he profiled?

(07-02-2013, 07:21 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: ^ The prosecution really needs a favorable ruling on this circumstantial evidence, imo.

They also want to introduce George's rejection letter for entry into the PD and his request to do a ride-along with officers; again looking to hammer home that Zimmerman was a vigilante wanna-be cop. I believe those requests will also be addressed before testimony begins tomorrow.

If the judge allows any or all of it to be presented to the jury and the prosecution isn't absolutely compelling in tying this circumstantial evidence and testimony into its theory, I can see the defense turning it around on cross and successfully positioning Zimmerman as an alert and committed citizen - dedicated and educated towards keeping his community safe in accordance with the law. Same is true for playing Zimmerman's previous 911 calls to report suspicious activity in the neighborhood, which the judge ruled admissible as going towards state-of-mind last week.

The hearing is at 5:30 a.m. PST tomorrow (hope I'm not up to watch it live, though the hearings in this case have been very interesting - entertaining dynamic between the judge and the attorneys for both sides.)

The defense already stipulated to this evidence being entered, a week or so ago. Then they object during the trial? The Judge is just being judicious. Giving the defense the opportunity to present case law so as to not give them an Appeal issue. Same goes for the previous NE911 calls.

The defense is, successfully, breaking up the flow of the States case in chief. It is a brazen planned attack.

The Judge will allow the college stuff, just as she did the NE911 calls.

It is what I would call playing foul, but it is what it is. And the State will move on.

According to testimony George was going for his phone when T punched him, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that T could have thought George was reaching for a weapon, remember, George had been chasing him, in the dark, in the rain, T didn't know who George was, he only knew he was being followed.

Oops. Failure to quote.

I would think this would be an automatic acquittal, given the testimony I've heard from investigators and various witnesses.

What doesn't sit well with me is Adubs theory that T got off of Z and then Z shot him because he was pissed he got his ass kicked.

If that ^ is true, I hope to hell there's some forensic evidence that can prove it.

(07-02-2013, 07:39 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: My, my , my.... a little heated Adub?

Did you hear the part where the screams were intermittent (according to the tape)?

To me intermittent would then completely explain a hand over a mouth, or swallowing blood, etc.

Holy shit Adub, I know you think GZ is a complete lying bastard, but let's let this play out and see what happens.

What if Trayvon did sucker punch him as a few here have speculated? Does that matter at all or did GZ just automatically deserve that because he profiled?

Intermittent? Have you listened to the 911 call with the screams for life in the background? There was no intermittent. They are continuous.

And you are seriously asking me if George deserved to be sucker punched? George Zimmerman followed this kid for over 8 minutes. When Trayvon ran off of the street, in between the homes, to get away from George, George got out of his shruck and continued to chase after Trayvon. That is not cool, Midwest Spy. Not cool at all. Whatever Trayvon did, was in reaction to George's fucked up actions. If you can't see that, then all I can say is fuck you, and have a good nights sleep.

If I heard correctly, I think G claimed that at some point, T had one hand on his mouth and one on his nose. If so that would have left both of G's hands free. You can't throw someone off yourself under those circumstances? Was G doing the hokey pokey (ya'put both arms out, ya' put both arms in...and ya' shake them all about) during this "attack" or what?

The other maybe minor thing that I haven't heard answered is G says after he shot T, he straddled him and spread T's arms out to his side but T's hands were under his body IIRC when he was found.

Hope I got my initials right this time.

(07-02-2013, 07:56 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: I would think this would be an automatic acquittal, given the testimony I've heard from investigators and various witnesses.

What doesn't sit well with me is Adubs theory that T got off of Z and then Z shot him because he was pissed he got his ass kicked.

If that ^ is true, I hope to hell there's some forensic evidence that can prove it.

I think I may have dreamed that one up. But, it was good! And very compelling. Thank you. Let's wait for the forensics.

Adub, by the way, fuck you too.

If T was so scared of this ass cracker following him, why wouldn't he simply duck into his house?

Oh... because he was a badass right?

As I've said from day one:

When seeking a confrontation, and subsequently throwing the first punch, you'd better hope dude is unarmed.

Hope you sleep well too.

BTW, what did you think of the detectives testimony when he said he lied to GZ in saying that someone had videotaped the confrontation, hoping to get Z to change his story or confess?

Z simply said, 'good, I'm glad somebody got it on tape.'

To me, if he had something to hide that's not the reaction I'd expect.