(07-12-2013, 11:49 AM)Duchess Wrote:

You are in the crime forum, I shouldn't have to tell Elders that. Don't make me be a bitch Admin. I hate that shit. I'm talking to both of you, I'm not singling anyone out.

I was making a new thread while you were posting this, Duchess.

Hey all,

If fighting gets entirely off topic and unrelated to the crime or people's opinions of the case (basically, if it's just personal bullshit), you can visit the FIGHT CLUB thread in Members Only to carry on - with or without an invitation.

Thanks.

(07-12-2013, 11:47 AM)BlueTiki Wrote: Especially when the majority of his closing focused on tubbie's need to mislead others, to gain credibility and justify his actions.

Has anyone purchased their "Free George" shirts, yet?

Guy is doing the prosecution's rebuttal argument now; slides focusing on all of George's lies and inconsistencies, as contended by the state.

P.s. I don't have a "Free George" shirt, but still occasionally wear my "Vote for Pedro" t-shirt.

(07-12-2013, 12:31 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:

(07-12-2013, 11:47 AM)BlueTiki Wrote: Especially when the majority of his closing focused on tubbie's need to mislead others, to gain credibility and justify his actions.

Has anyone purchased their "Free George" shirts, yet?

Guy is doing the prosecution's rebuttal argument now; slides focusing on all of George's lies and inconsistencies, as contended by the state.

P.s. I don't have a "Free George" shirt, but still occasionally wear my "Vote for Pedro" t-shirt.

I just turned the t.v. on and was surprised; I missed all of the defense closing arguments.

(07-12-2013, 12:31 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: P.s. I don't have a "Free George" shirt, but still occasionally wear my "Vote for Pedro" t-shirt.

I've got one of those.

Do you have any skills? Like nunchuk skills or stick fighting skills?

(07-12-2013, 12:40 PM)Cynical Ninja Wrote:

(07-12-2013, 12:31 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: P.s. I don't have a "Free George" shirt, but still occasionally wear my "Vote for Pedro" t-shirt.

I've got one of those.

Do you have any skills? Like nunchuk skills or stick fighting skills?

No. But, I've got mad liger-drawing skills and a sweet bike.

Prosecutor Guy is attempting to discredit the defense witnesses' statements. He says they're all based on the self-serving statements of the defendant.

He's talking about the increasing exaggeration of George's story the more times he told it, in order to justify his actions.

Guy says that's evident by how George's exaggerations culminated in his public interview with Hannity, claiming by that time that the incident was "God's Plan".

Can someone tell me whether they thought the defense closed well or not?

Guy's final statements for the jury are almost over; he's reminding them that although the defense brought up race, this case isn't about race. It's about right and wrong.

He's asking the jury to reverse the roles of Zimmerman and Martin.

"To the dead, we owe the truth". "Trayvon Martin was a son, a brother, a friend...the last thing he did on this earth was try to get home."

"George Zimmerman - the self-serving statements, lies from his own mouth, hate in his heart...the physical evidence that refutes his lies..."

These are the state's last words for the jury. Closing arguments are over.

Court is in recess. Jury instructions will be given after lunch and then deliberations will begin.

I'll let someone else tell you. I have a terribly biased opinion and think they sucked ass.

(07-12-2013, 12:55 PM)username Wrote: Can someone tell me whether they thought the defense closed well or not?

It wasn't as strong as I'd thought it would be.

O'Mara said that Zimmerman was the victim of ill-will, hatred and spite and he held up a piece of concrete to show how Trayvon was armed with a weapon - the concrete sidewalk.

JMO, wrong strategy. I expected him to just continue to show that George Zimmerman acted in self-defense according to the law, not try to project the charges against Zimmerman on to Trayvon Martin.

Whatever the verdict, it'll be interesting to hear the juror interviews afterwards. This will be a tough deliberation, imo.

(07-12-2013, 12:56 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: It's about right and wrong.

Hmmm . . . not about the law?

It's troubling to hear attorneys argue everything and anything but the law!

This was a case about race and emotion.

The prosecution used Adub's strategy of hammering the fact tubbie is a lyin' hater.

Adub is a smart cookie.

Let's see how it plays out.

Thanks HotD.

I'm not as convinced that George will walk as I was before. My gut says 70% chance he walks, 30% guilty (probably manslaughter).

(07-12-2013, 01:15 PM)BlueTiki Wrote: The prosecution used Adub's strategy of hammering the fact tubbie is a lyin' hater.

Adub is a smart cookie.

Let's see how it plays out.

Adub is a smart cookie; haven't heard from her in a while.

Once the defense addressed the apparent hole in the "reasonableness" of Zimmerman's self-defense claims with the "soft" argument and testimony, I think focusing solely on George's credibility and state of mind (though always tough to prove what someone else is thinking) is really the only place the prosecution had to go. JMO.

Did the state do it well enough to get Murder 2? Nope. IMO.

Manslaughter? IDK.

We'll see.

Well after reading this entire thread and watching what little I could of the trial, I am still unsure weather or not Z is guilty. The facts just did not seam to come out in this case. The prosecution did not seam to have a strong case and it showed. Guilty or not guilty, I just don't know. I do think that he will walk though.

I'm thinking a lot about LC right now. She started this thread. I wonder if her opinion would have changed. She would have loved the trial & some of the theatrics.

Time to place your bets if you have one, folks. Personally, I have no idea what this jury will decide.

While I think the prosecution did a good job at the end offering up some alternative scenarios, "proving" that G wasn't in fear for his life is an almost impossible task because it is so subjective. We'll see.

(07-12-2013, 02:35 PM)F.U. Dont ask again Wrote: I do think that he will walk though.

I believe a "Guilty" verdict will be returned on one of the charges just to keep the peace.

If not a "Guilty" verdict, then a hung jury.

Was it me or did anyone else notice that none of Florida Statute 776's justifiable use of force was mentioned?

(07-12-2013, 02:45 PM)username Wrote: Time to place your bets if you have one

He's going down.

I could easily imagine a hung jury in this case.

(07-12-2013, 02:46 PM)BlueTiki Wrote:

(07-12-2013, 02:35 PM)F.U. Dont ask again Wrote: I do think that he will walk though.

I believe a "Guilty" verdict will be returned on one of the charges just to keep the peace.

If not a "Guilty" verdict, then a hung jury.

Was it me or did anyone else notice that none of Florida Statute 776's justifiable use of force was mentioned?

I wouldn't bet on any verdict in this case. Just don't know.

But, if I had it, I'd bet money against a Murder 2 verdict.

Near the end of jury instructions, Nelson went over justifiable use of deadly force (not sure of the statute number though).

(07-12-2013, 02:53 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: But, if I had it, I'd bet money against a Murder 2 verdict.

Near the end of jury instructions, Nelson went over justifiable use of deadly force (not sure of the statute number though).

Before O'mara's closing, I'd have thought 2^nd Degree Murder would have been a Skittle supporter fantasy.

Not now.

As to Nelson's jury instructions, I'll need to read a transcript as I didn't hear any of 776.

I now understand Dan Abram's point in his article: Self-defense law and SYG are NOT synonymous.