(09-03-2013, 09:27 PM)Maggot Wrote: If I was President I would bomb Iranian oil and cut the snakes head off. Let Israel take out the The Iranian reactors, use Iraq as a base against Somalia. Take all the refuges and put them in Iraq then take all their oil as payment to feed them as they take over the manufacturing sector from China. Russia can find their own meal ticket but stay the fuck away from Alaska. If I was President.

Mr. President, could you please figure out a way to ship all the Somalis in Minnesota back to that Godforsaken land before you bomb the shit out of them?

Thanks, from a Minnesotan who can't stand their cock-roachy asses being in his beautiful state.

No shit. They are all over here also. How the hell do you teach the A,B.C's to a 50 yr old Somalian?

(09-03-2013, 08:18 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: What about my friend aussie?

She's been calling for a major show of force by the US for quite a while now.

I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth. You are quite the provocateur HoTD.

I don't think that ANYONE should be allowed to get away with systematic murder, in any country on the planet. I think that every single Syrian life is as important as mine. The Syrian people are important, I don't think that people should be allowed to walk around on planet Earth after crushing a babies skull in. That's me, I am old fashioned like that.

I am not so sure about what the right thing is to do, because there will be casualties. Again, these peoples lives are as important and relevant as mine.

Assad's son was on Facebook daring the US to do it.

I would like to see Assad face justice at the war crimes tribunal in the Hague like Slobby Milosevic. I think it would be therapeutic for the world to see the trial and see him brought to justice for crimes against humanity. To let him get away scott free is not an option.

(09-04-2013, 02:15 AM)aussiefriend Wrote:

(09-03-2013, 08:18 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: What about my friend aussie?

She's been calling for a major show of force by the US for quite a while now.

I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth. You are quite the provocateur HoTD.

I may be provocative occasionally, but I'm not putting words in your mouth.

You didn't say, "I support a sea-launched missile or a bomb being dropped on a Syrian governmental military base"; that's true. I didn't say that you did. I said that you've been crying for a major show of force for some time. It wasn't a jab, it was a statement of fact.

You said this:

'aussiefriend Wrote:Bashar Al Assad has gone way too far way long ago. When I witnessed the butchered skulls of infants on youtube I knew that this guy would do anything to stay in power. He needs to be removed today. I don't know why the powers that be have not done this. I am not privy to this information. Has Syria got no oil? Take him out.

The immediate physical removal of an elected military-guarded leader is a greater show of force by the "powers that be" than a warning strike against a military base. The former is, in fact, what you have been advocating. You are not alone in taking that stance and I understand that position, as I've stated before. I just don't share your view.

You've been so provocative in arguing in favor of immediate power intervention as to have used Iraq as an example, insisted that Syria has "no" healthcare, characterized people who disagree with your viewpoint as terribly fucking stupid and/or supporters of Assad, and implied that you care more about human life than those who don't support engagement in a Middle Eastern civil war at this time.

There's no arguing that taking out a country's leader is a major show of force in itself; requiring physical intervention and likely bloodshed and the loss of loyalist soldiers' lives during the operation, aussie (even if by "taking him out" you really meant trying Assad for alleged war crimes, as you later contended).

Well, that is...unless your vision of "taking him out" entails tricking him into an unguarded swim at the lake, stealing his clothes, and tickling him until he giddily throws his arms into the air and agrees to be "taken out" of Syria to the Hague to stand trial. IDK, while it sounds nice, seems unlikely that the Syrian loyalist army or Assad would fall for such a peaceful little power play. IMO.

When I was about 7, I was walking out in an estuary stream close to the beach and the sand gave away under my feet and I went head under water. It was a feeling I remember well.

Loosey Loo should be feeling something similar when she reads that ^

Haha!

I assume that aussie has been lobbying the Australian government and rallying friends and neighbors to call on their government officials... all in the noble effort to use the Australian military in a unilateral action to remove Assad.

Right?

With France on our side how can we lose?

(09-04-2013, 10:25 AM)Jimbone Wrote: I assume that aussie has been lobbying the Australian government and rallying friends and neighbors to call on their government officials... all in the noble effort to use the Australian military in a unilateral action to remove Assad.

Right?

I know. Why us? I believe China signed the agreement banning the use of chemical weapons. Why the fuck isn't the world looking at them and suggesting they intervene with their bitch? Granted they won't but the "world" ought to be a lot more vocal about their lack of intervention.

It would be nice to be able to just sit back and count our money (or lack thereof) sometimes.

President Obama, August 20, 2012:

"We have been very clear to the Assad regime -- but also to other players on the ground -- that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized.

"That would change my calculus; that would change my equation."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/20/world/meast/syria-unrest


President Obama, September 4, 2013:

"I didn't set a red line. The world set a red line."

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/04/politi...?hpt=hp_t1

heh heh. I heard his latest red line statement on the radio this morning. He's the commander in justifier for sure.

(09-04-2013, 01:02 PM)username Wrote: heh heh. I heard his latest red line statement on the radio this morning. He's the commander in justifier for sure.

He really is something else... it's almost as if he thinks there is no record of anything he has ever said.

Good News!

Taken from Reuters News


Exclusive: Former Syria defense minister defects in break with Assad
Sept., 4^th 2013

(Reuters) - Former Syrian Defence Minister General Ali Habib, a prominent member of President Bashar al-Assad's Alawite sect, has defected and is now in Turkey, a senior member of the opposition Syrian National Coalition told Reuters on Wednesday.

If his defection is confirmed, Habib would be the highest ranking figure from the Alawite minority to break with Assad since the uprising against him began in 2011.

It comes at a time when forces loyal to Assad have made progress against the rebels on the battlefield but face the possibility of a U.S. military strike in response to a chemical weapons attack in Damascus for which Washington blames the Syrian leader.

"Ali Habib has managed to escape from the grip of the regime and he is now in Turkey, but this does not mean that he has joined the opposition. I was told this by a Western diplomatic official," Kamal al-Labwani said from Paris.

Syrian state television denied Habib had left Syria and said he was still at his home. Turkey's foreign minister, Ahmet Davutoglu, said he could not at the moment confirm Habib had defected.

A Gulf source told Reuters that Habib had defected on Tuesday evening, arriving at the Turkish frontier before midnight with two or three other people. He was then taken across the border in a convoy of vehicles.

His companions were fellow military officers who supported his defection, the source said. They were believed to have also left Syria but there was no immediate confirmation of that.

Labwani said Habib was smuggled out of Syria with the help of a Western country.

"He will be a top source of information. Habib has had a long military career. He has been effectively under house arrest since he defied Assad and opposed killing protesters," Labwani said.

COORDINATED WITH U.S.

An officer in the opposition Free Syrian Army, who did not want to be identified, said the Habib appeared to have coordinated his defection with the United States.

Former military officers who have defected from Assad's army say it had about 36,000 officers, of which 28,000 are Alawites. The remaining 8,000 are a mix of Sunni Muslims, the majority community in Syria, and members of minorities such as Christians and Druze, they said.

Born in 1939, Habib was Defence Minister from 2009 to August 2011, when he was replaced for what official media said were health reasons. The Gulf source Habib had spent some time under house arrest.

After rumors that he was dismissed for opposing the killing of peaceful pro-democracy protesters, Habib was shown on state television pledging his loyalty to the Assad government. Western diplomats said the statement appeared to have been made under duress.

Habib participated in the 1973 October War against Israel, in which Syria failed to recapture the occupied Golan Heights, and in the 1990-91 Gulf War, when Hafez al-Assad, Bashar's father and predecessor as president, symbolically joined a U.S.-led coalition that ousted Iraq occupation troops from Kuwait.

"Habib is a simple and honest. Unlike the Assads he is not corrupt," said another military defector who served under Habib.

When he was chief of staff he did not like the Assad family's readiness to use violence as a political tool and when demonstrators started being killed he could no longer remain a "yes man", the defector said.

"His defection will rattle the Alawite community because it will be seen as another man jumping off a sinking boat, indicating the coming fall of the regime," the defector told Reuters

(Additional reporting by Oliver Holmes in Beirut; Editing by William Maclean, Robin Pomeroy and Giles Elgood)

WORLDTURKEYSYRIA

(09-04-2013, 09:04 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Well, that is...unless your vision of "taking him out" entails tricking him into an unguarded swim at the lake, stealing his clothes, and tickling him until he giddily throws his arms into the air and agrees to be "taken out" of Syria to the Hague to stand trial. IDK, while it sounds nice, seems unlikely that the Syrian loyalist army or Assad would fall for such a peaceful little power play. IMO.

I would also like to point out, when I said 'take him out' I did not mean to the Eiffel Tower Restaurant. I stand by what I said.

Of course I do not want to see casualties. Those poor Syrian people have been put through enough. Having said that, I do not want to see inaction. The whole regime needs to be changed. Assad's family are in key pivotal government roles.

Russia is not supporting this intervention. Clearly, there is higher political workings at play. You cannot give this Assad carte blanche to murder people.

His actions almost seem to be provoking the US. So he murders a bunch of innocent people to pick a fight with the US, and then worse, deny it. It's all so evil.

100 000+ people have been murdered throughout this conflict. Those peoples lives matter. If that was you HoTD or your family, I would be vocal too and call for justice. He needs to be made accountable.

I will go over myself and sort it out, if you like.

(09-04-2013, 05:44 PM)aussiefriend Wrote: I will go over myself and sort it out, if you like.

If you aren't able to sort it out, which country(s) do you suggest should?

I don't like Russia & I think their Prez is a perv. Don't you dare say anything about Bill!

Putin gives me the willies.

I don't like the risk/reward of going into Syria at all.

I literally see no upside to us bombing them and see all kinds of negatives that could come out of it.

I hope we decide to hold off.

I feel like they are not listening to us, the people, AGAIN!

The Senate has passed a resolution to bomb Syria -

Overcoming reservations from the left, the right and the American public, a Senate committee Wednesday passed a resolution to bomb Syria in retaliation for President Bashar al-Assad's alleged use of chemical weapons.

In a delayed markup of a resolution to authorize the use of military force, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee voted 10 to 7, with one present, to let President Barack Obama mount a bombing campaign aimed at the Syrian regime's weapons of mass destruction for up to 90 days, albeit within a more limited scope than Obama had requested. Specifically, the committee included language that would prohibit the use of U.S. troops on the ground "for the purpose of combat operations."

Committee Chairman Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), ranking member Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) and Sens. Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.), Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.), Ben Cardin (D-Md.), Chris Coons (D-Del.), John McCain (R-Ariz.), Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) and Tim Kaine (D-Va.) voted for the resolution.

Sens. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), James Risch (R-Idaho), Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), Tom Udall (D-N.M.), Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), and Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) voted against the authorization, while Sen. Ed Markey (D-Mass.) voted present.

Story

(09-04-2013, 05:24 PM)aussiefriend Wrote: His actions almost seem to be provoking the US. So he murders a bunch of innocent people to pick a fight with the US, and then worse, deny it. It's all so evil.

100 000+ people have been murdered throughout this conflict. Those peoples lives matter. If that was you HoTD or your family, I would be vocal too and call for justice. He needs to be made accountable.

I don't think the actions taken by the Syrian government or by the rebel forces were carried out with the goal of picking a fight with the US.

It's a fight for power within Syria - some legitimate Syrian protestors who wanted change and embraced the Arab Spring, some legitimate loyalists who were happy with the progress made in Syria to that point and with their leaders, some terrorist infiltration on both sides (looking to get a stronghold and exploiting the internal strife and stoking the flames), some political influences from outside parties/countries...

I don't see it in as black and white of terms as you do, aussie, which is fine. Different points of view.

Holding people accountable for crimes (war crimes or otherwise), to me, requires having solid evidence as to who did what, along with defining the appropriate party(s) to pursue and exact the appropriate punitive measures.

Also, timing is critical, the impact on global relations matters a great deal, and the non-Syrians who would be putting their lives on the line to intervene in the civil war are at least equally deserving of consideration as the lives of those in Syria.

Innocent civilians die in war. I hate war. What's been transpiring in Syria is a terrible tragedy and the lives lost there matter; they aren't just numbers in a news piece. On that we agree.

The US Senate voted in favor of Obama's proposal for a retaliatory bombing today. We'll soon see how the whole of Congress votes. Whichever way it goes (action or inaction), I hope the net result for all parties involved/vested/affected isn't increased losses and tensions.