(03-10-2011, 03:50 PM)mamabear Wrote: the show Toddlers is Tiaras is disgusting and should be banned. JMO

OFF TOPIC! There are a few shows like that on T.V. These little girls (and some boys) should be out getting dirty in the sandbox and playing with their friends. They should be exploring their surroundings and building their imaginations. WTF is wrong with these moms (an sometimes dads)??? Some of these kids are treated horribly and made to practice over and over until they get it perfect. These moms are living vicariously through their daughters, because half the moms are fat, ugly pigs!!!!!! They don't even let them show their own little teeth. They wear "flippers" FFS!!

(10-03-2010, 05:37 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: i have always believed, from the very first day, that patsy killed her in a psycho rage, without intending to. and she and john engaged in the coverup. they did a crap job of it. that was not a stranger murder in their house.

LC: What's your take on Steven Singular's Pedophile Ring Theory?

Chapters 10 & 20 from "Presume Guilty: An Investigation into the Jon Benet Ramsey Case, the Media, and the Culture of Pornography"

Are you familiar with Evan Ravitz's petition to present that evidence to the Grand Jury and his unsuccessful attempts to do so?

Dr Robert McFarland's and my experience with the JonBenet Ramsey murder case and District Attorney Alex Hunter's "grand secrecy"

Do you think there was something to hide or did the authorities just discount Ravitz as an amateur sleuth, armchair detective, or shit disturber?

I knew Evan thirty odd years ago before he moved to Boulder and became a local 'activist', so I was surprised and intrigued to learn of his involvement in the case, but not having much knowledge of the events surrounding it, I don't quite know what to make of his theories.

i avoid "scientific" and/or long-winded treatises about notorious crimes. everyone has an agenda. i rely on facts that are established and what i observe of principals. it serves me well.
so sorry, haven't read the items you mentioned. i did read "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" years ago, barely remember it.

A Colorado judge has ordered the release of the 1999 grand jury indictment in the killing of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey.

The order was issued Wednesday by Senior District Court Judge J. Robert Lowenbach. He ruled that the indictment signed by the grand jury foreman constituted an official action and must be released under state law.

The Daily Camera reports the indictment will be released Friday in response to a lawsuit filed by a Daily Camera reporter and the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press.

The indictment has remained sealed for 14 years because the former district attorney decided against pursuing charges. But questions still surround the little girl's unsolved death.

John Ramsey, father of JonBenet, said earlier this week he was opposed to the release of an indictment that wasn't prosecuted.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-5...colo-girl/

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After all of this time, I'm anxious to read the document and find out what info/evidence against the Ramseys caused the grand jury to indict them.

GRAND JURY INDICTMENT RELEASED

Here's the link to the doc, which was unsealed after 14 years and released to the public today, despite objections from John Ramsey and his legal team:

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/10/u...?hpt=hp_t1

The full indictment is 16 pages and reportedly contains details regarding why the Grand Jury felt John and Patsy Ramsey should each be charged with child abuse causing death, but only the 4 pages signed by the foreman have been released.

Some of the wording in the 4 released pages seems to indicate that the GJ may have thought John and Patsy aided a third person, to me.

Ref:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/25/justice/jo...?hpt=hp_t1

This is another case where the parents always rubbed me the wrong way (like Madeleine McCann's parents), but having followed the case for years, I still don't have a strong opinion as to whether JonBenet's death was at the hands of her parents, her brother, or someone unrelated to the family.

ETA: The case is still open, but classified as "cold" - it is not being investigated. JonBenet would have turned 23 this year.

Just refreshed my memory on some of the details of the murder scene and the investigation; always been intrigued by JonBenet's case.

TruCrime Library has a detailed overview. If anyone's interested:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notor...dex_1.html

It's 38 chapters, but you can go straight to topics of interest using the linked index - scroll down and it's on the right of each page.

If anybody's got one, really interested in theories as to who's really responsible for JonBenet's death and what might have went down at the house that night.

I asked LC a year ago or so who she thought was responsible, and she believes it was the mother.

(10-25-2013, 04:56 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: I asked LC a year ago or so who she thought was responsible, and she believes it was the mother.

Yeah, I read the thread.

I know LC leaned towards Patsy doing it in a fit of rage, but was fairly open to other possibilities.

Do you have a theory or opinion, MS?

You know, I really don't.

Did JonBenet have an older brother? Thought I had heard that. If so, that could be an angle. I don't feel like it was someone outside the family.

Like LC thought, it was probably her mother.

(10-25-2013, 05:27 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: You know, I really don't.

Did JonBenet have an older brother? Thought I had heard that. If so, that could be an angle. I don't feel like it was someone outside the family.

Like LC thought, it was probably her mother.

She had an older brother named Burke who was 9 at the time.

A couple of years ago, he was re-interviewed and there was hope that the investigation might move forward - that's when LC started this thread. Unfortunately, nothing seemed to come of it.

I'm interested in what others think because I'm totally undecided on this one, MS.

Statistics would support the parents being responsible, but it's not always someone in the family or close to the child.

To me, the ransom note and all of its oddities, and the fact that it was reportedly written inside the home, is the most incriminating evidence pointing towards an inside job. Why would an intruder risk hanging out in the home like that?

Still, the handwriting was never definitively matched to anyone (although some analysts felt it was a woman writing it with input from a man).



I've always hoped that guilt would overtake whomever was responsible and someone would confess. Probably a slim chance of that happening though.

I need to go back and read up on the case. Why write/leave a ransom note either right before or right after you've killed the child? It doesn't make sense unless they planned on getting her body out of there and pretending that she was still alive.

Weird. I have a lot of catching up to do before I can offer a theory.

No theories here..that ransom note is ridiculous...the writing of it at the time and what it says. I always figured it was Patsy, same thing just rubbed me the wrong way...need to find some time to read up again!

I've always thought Patsy did it because the father was molesting Jon.

Mom makes daughter look like a 30 yr old model....could have just put a target in her back for molestation, instead.

I do have an itchy wonder about Burke... Could he have been involved somehow to cause parents to cover for child? If he was a bit older at the time it could make more sense. Was he being molested?

It's hard for me to form any logical theories in this case because so many facets of it strike me as illogical.

The ransom note is indeed ridiculous. It makes no sense that two smart parents would have written it, in their own home using their own utensils, no less. Like 'em or not, the Ramseys weren't dummies.

It makes no sense that a rapist/killer would have written it at the crime scene.

It makes no sense for either the parents or an intruder to have left JonBenet's body in the home with a ransom note of any kind.

The amount of ransom demanded, $118k, was the exact amount of John Ramsey's bonus that year. Whoever wrote the note had to have some inside knowledge, it seems?

Regarding molestation, it's not been conclusively proven that JonBenet was molested before that night - differing expert and amateur opinions abound. John Ramsey's ex-wife and older children were interviewed by child specialists - there were never any signs that he molested any of them. That doesn't mean he didn't molest JonBenet and/or Burke, but makes it less likely that he did, IMO.

Throw in the ineptness of the Boulder PD and prosecutors and the media's free-for-all, plus some of the Ramseys ill-advised actions and statements, and it's still a hot mess of a case to navigate all these years later.

P.s. Spomd, check out the "Tiaras, Toddlers, and Twats" thread if you get a minute (ETA, link: http://mockforums.net/thread-8742.html?highlight=tiaras. ) Amazing how many women dress their daughters up as tarts and parade them around - some apparently living vicariously and others just looking to make a buck.

My kids tried to watch the Toddlers/Tiaras show a few times...told them we weren't going to feed into that frenzy by giving them our ratings! It is disgusting to see what these parents do to their babies...not just the hair, makeup, flappers...but the mature outfits and skits...bleh

Ransom notes and bodies in same location...not a common finding! Yeah, the $118k thing is odd..but could have been John hoping to send cops in the direction of his higher ups. I've been trying to catch up reading articles...my memory from when it happened is of the fancy cane lined house, the pageant photos and two parents that creeped me out for some reason?

Burke Did It?!

This case has been getting a lot of new interest as 2016 marked the 20^th anniversary of JonBenet's murder.



Burke Ramsey, who was 9 at the time of the murder, has never spoken out before. He gave an interview to Dr. Phil early in September. Bad idea -- he comes across terribly. A clip of his appearance and top level recap of the case is featured in the short video below.



Burke has long been considered the killer by many case followers. They believe that he murdered JonBenet, Pasty Ramsey wrote the bizarre ransom letter, and John Ramsey staged the basement crime scene to make it look like a kidnapping gone wrong.

CBS Documentary & Multi-Million Dollar Lawsuit

Shortly after the Dr. Phil interview, CBS aired a two-part prime time documentary on the case which concluded that Burke Ramsey was, in fact, the killer. Burke's lawyer threatened to sue CBS and has already filed a suit against famed forensic pathologist Dr. Werner Spitz to the tune of $150 million. Video clip of Dr. Spitz from the documentary below.



The suit alleges that Spitz’s claims in the two-part The Case of: JonBenét Ramsey “attacked and permanently harmed the reputation of [Ramsey]." http://people.com/crime/burke-ramsey-fil...-jonbenet/

Ramsey Family Uncleared -- New DNA Testing to be Done

Then........this week, the Colorado district attorney overseeing the unsolved killing of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey says a former prosecutor should never have written a letter exonerating the girl’s family (years after that letter, it was revealed that the parents had been indicted by a grand jury but local prosecutors had chosen not to press charges).

Boulder County District Attorney Stan Garnett said Thursday that the letter clearing the girl’s family from suspicion in her 1996 death is not binding and his office is still investigating the case.

Authorities have said they’re looking at new DNA testing technology that they hope will further the investigation.

The move comes after an investigation by the Daily Camera newspaper in Boulder and KUSA-TV in Denver that the news organizations say uncovered flaws in the interpretation of previous DNA testing.

Garnett says much of the new testing will target previously screened items to see if new information can be gleaned.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jonbenet-ram...ng-family/
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Man, I hope new DNA testing can lead to a resolution in this case.