Easy for an upper middle class white dude to say.

(11-25-2014, 06:57 AM)Carsman Wrote:

(11-25-2014, 06:13 AM)Duchess Wrote:

I've judged them and found them lacking. Whoever made the stupid decision to release this info at 9 PM has shit for brains. Whatta idiot. Let's try to keep law & order in the dark. This isn't the first crappy decision they've made, no wonder they find themselves in this position if this is any indication of their decision making skills.

Seems all the touted preparing by the Fergie PD to be able halt the anticipated riots was no where near being prepared! Idjuts!
(It was reported that after the decision was announced, the Fergie PD disappeared and left the scene for 15 minutes! WTF)

Where was the preparing to begin with? Other than putting barriers up around the courthouse, I didn't see any other preparing.

I'm fucking pissed off at all sides of this fiasco. The 'Authorities' announced in the morning that a decision had been made, but they wait until 9 pm to announce it? Yet all day long, the news people are announcing a decision has been made-that gave the goons that like to wreak havoc all day to amass.

Then everybody goes and buries their heads in the sand, while the goons throw bricks and shout "Free phones!" Then the fires start, and some fucking moron thought it was a good idea to either start shooting or ammunition was going off in buildings (not sure about that, but anyway)

Then Al fucking weasel face Sharpton, instead of standing in the middle of Fergisun, telling the goons to back the fuck off, releases a statement telling the goons which cities to go visit next!

I feel bad for Brown's family, they certainly didn't deserve to lose a son, but let's face it, the kid wasn't an alter boy either.

Ray Charles could have seen this coming.

Over a dozen businesses were set on fire last night/early this morning. Not only do the business owners lose their property, what about putting the lives of the firefighters in danger to put those fires out? One of the shops looted/burned was a beauty supply store. The looters took the wigs and weaves and set the place on fire. A liquor store and cell phone store were looted and burned.

This isn't about a black man getting shot by a white police officer. That's just the excuse. This is about organized mayhem. The Black Panthers and Anarchists are out in droves (there are pre-printed protest signs). These people don't care about Michael Brown or black men in general, they just want something, anything to "protest" so they can loot, kill and push forward their agenda.

Marital law should be imposed in Ferguson, all looters shot on sight. The world is watching and the world is laughing at the US. We need to stop treating these people like naughty children and impose consequences that mean something.

The authorities bear some responsibility for this havoc.

If I mismanaged any part of my job like they have done, I wouldn't have a job.

I disagree, the riots and destruction are solely the responsibility of the asshole rioters.
The cops may or may not have made mistakes, but they didn't kill anybody or burn anyones shit down.
The dead guy that got all this started assaulted a police officer, if he had hit me like that I would have killed him running away, on his knees or begging

You're entitled to your opinion.

All day yesterday in homes across America and specifically in Ferguson there was a scroll running across the bottom of the screen saying a decision had been reached. They could have released it then, they choose not to and let it simmer like a pot the entire day. That was exceedingly poor judgement. People were worked into a frenzy. Without even knowing what was determined, people KNEW. Do you know how rare it is to not get an indictment once a case has been presented to a Grand Jury?

Why Is Michael Brown Dead? -- Officer Darren Wilson's Version of Events

Wilson viewed Michael Brown like a demonic Hulk Hogan-ish character who grunted and charged like a bull. That's essentially what Wilson told the grand jury.



Wilson said he encountered 6' 4" 18-year-old Brown ^ and his friend Dorian Johnson walking in the middle of the street. A confrontation followed when Brown refused Wilson's request to walk on the sidewalk. In his testimony, Wilson also said he identified Brown as a possible robbery suspect based on a dispatch he heard earlier.

In his testimony, Wilson repeatedly refers to what he calls "aggression" from Brown that he said led to a struggle and then fatal shooting. "The intense face he had was just not what I expected from any of this," Wilson said, recalling that Brown punched him through the window of his car.

"I felt that another one of those punches in my face could knock me out or worse," Wilson said. "I mean it was, he's obviously bigger than I was and stronger and the, I've already taken two to the face and I didn't think he would, the third one could be fatal if he hit me right ...Or at least unconscious and then who knows what would happen to me after that."

Ferguson Police Officer Wilson told a grand jury that Michael Brown looked like a "demon" during the confrontation that ultimately left the teenager dead, according to testimony released on Monday.

"And when I grabbed him, the only way I can describe it is I felt like a five-year-old holding onto Hulk Hogan," Wilson said of his struggle with Brown. "That's just how big he felt and how small I felt just from grasping his arm." Wilson told grand jurors that when he and Brown struggled over the officer's gun, Brown "had the most intense aggressive face. The only way I can describe it, it looks like a demon, that’s how angry he looked."

The testimony also reveals that Wilson did not carry a taser and typically doesn't because "it is not the most comfortable thing." He told the grand jury he was carrying mace, a baton and a flashlight, but chose not to reach for them because he was trying to shield himself from Brown and did not believe non-lethal options would be "effective."

His gun,Wilson said, was "the only option," adding that he warned Brown to get back or he would shoot. According to Wilson, Brown responded by grabbing the gun and telling the officer, "You are too much of a pussy to shoot me."

Wilson said after a couple of unsuccessful attempts, he fired two shots from his car, prompting Brown to run from the vehicle. Wilson said he then got out of the car, called for backup and pursued Brown.

"He made like a grunting, like aggravated sound and comes back toward me," Wilson said of Brown's reaction.

He added that he told Brown to get on the ground, and fired the fatal shots when the teenager charged him.

"At this point it looked like he was almost bulking up to run through the shots, like it was making him mad that I'm shooting at him," Wilson said. "And the face that he had was looking straight through me, like I wasn't even there, I wasn't even anything in his way."

"I shoot a series of shots," Wilson added. "I don't know how many I shot, I just know I shot it."

Wilson fired 12 shots. Photos released of the officer after the grand jury's decision on Monday show some bruising on his face and the back of his neck, but no serious injuries.



Several eyewitnesses have disputed the notion that Brown charged at Wilson. Although they support that a confrontation occurred, some eyewitnesses said Brown looked like he was trying to surrender and had his hands in the air when Wilson fatally shot him. The Prosecutor who gave last night's press conference announcing "no indictment" says the eye witness accounts were inconsistent and after witnesses were questioned, eventually their accounts matched the physical evidence. (HOTD: I expect to hear from some of those witnesses soon enough.)
-------------------------------------------

Was Wilson justified in shooting to kill because his perception/description of Brown was on the money and his life was in danger? Or, did Michael Brown get killed because Darren Wilson was so scared and/or angry that he shot unnecessarily as Brown surrendered?

That question can't be answered by the physical evidence supporting an altercation in the car, nor by the perceptions of eye witnesses. The grand jury apparently believed Wilson. The protestors here are united in their belief that unarmed Brown was surrendering, so there's no justification for the shooting.

Body/lapel cams for all cops --- I'm with the Browns on that; huge supporter of dash and body cams nationwide.


Here's the full grand jury testimony transcript. It's 4,800 pages. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/newsgraphic...timony.pdf

(11-25-2014, 07:42 AM)Duchess Wrote:

Easy for an upper middle class white dude to say.

What about the lower white class, and even the white trash, still no "looting", and upheaval. The riots are for distraction to allow the looting!

(11-25-2014, 09:01 AM)Cheyne Wrote: Marital law should be imposed in Ferguson, all looters shot on sight. The world is watching and the world is laughing at the US. We need to stop treating these people like naughty children and impose consequences that mean something.

Well, that would certainly cause race riots or civil unrest across the country; yours is the exact mentality that protestors are challenging.

Personally, I don't think introducing martial law and imposing a potential on-the-spot death penalty for looters is a good idea. You wanna tear gas and arrest them with some mandatory jail time, maybe. But do you really think they should be shot on sight, Cheyne?

And, who in the whole world is laughing at the US over the Michael Brown shooting and its aftermath -- countries that execute their citizens for stealing? Are we really that hyper sensitive as a country that killing civilians for theft and vandalism should be advocated in order to avoid a little mockery?

Here's the problem I have with this incident.

Black community screams injustice as an unarmed teenager is gunned down in the middle of the street as he's surrendering.

First of all, he's a criminal/thug. He's on videotape stealing, he gets into a physical altercation with a cop (eyewitnesses confirm this) and then it becomes a he said/she said as to whether or not he's surrendering or charging.

Who attacks a cop through the car window of their squad? Someone obviously brazen enough to think they can get away with it.

From the charts I've seen as to the gunshot wounds, they could easily have occurred as someone was running at the police officer.

The real problem I have is there's not ONE sensible, reasonable voice in the black community that has said, "you know what, let's look at the facts here. This kid was a troublemaker, attacked a cop, and got himself killed in the process."

If ordinary, law-abiding citizens (black) were being harassed, beat up or killed in this community (and there was evidence) I'd support them in their efforts to create change and send people to prison.

This is an isolated incident where a kid thought he could do whatever he wanted

The people who should be held responsible for damages that have occurred during rioting (the race inciters) should be sent to prison.

MS is right in above commentary. I watched the whole speech by the prosecuter last night. One thing that struck me is the wide variances in witness statements. Some even changing their stories. He said that many witnesses were coming forward to say he was shot several times in the back. But funny thing, as soon as autopsy confirmed no shots to his back, all the witnesses to that stopped.

Call me naïve but what will rioting and looting solve? You are destroying the businesses of your own neighbors, for what? Because you feel you have a right? That "the man" made you do it?

Someone on local radio this morning said it well...if you want to change things do it positively..become a cop, become a lawyer, become a positive advocate for change.

Hate will not make things well. Did white folks riot when OJ was aquitted? NOPE. What if the skin colors were reversed? Black cop..white teen?

Sorry, I try very hard not to be racist, or profile..but do the blacks realize it is THEIR own actions that cause whites to question them?

(11-25-2014, 11:47 AM)Midwest Spy Wrote: Here's the problem I have with this incident.

Black community screams injustice as an unarmed teenager is gunned down in the middle of the street as he's surrendering.

First of all, he's a criminal/thug. He's on videotape stealing, he gets into a physical altercation with a cop (eyewitnesses confirm this) and then it becomes a he said/she said as to whether or not he's surrendering or charging.

Who attacks a cop through the car window of their squad? Someone obviously brazen enough to think they can get away with it.

From the charts I've seen as to the gunshot wounds, they could easily have occurred as someone was running at the police officer.

The real problem I have is there's not ONE sensible, reasonable voice in the black community that has said, "you know what, let's look at the facts here. This kid was a troublemaker, attacked a cop, and got himself killed in the process."

If ordinary, law-abiding citizens (black) were being harassed, beat up or killed in this community (and there was evidence) I'd support them in their efforts to create change and send people to prison.

This is an isolated incident where a kid thought he could do whatever he wanted

The people who should be held responsible for damages that have occurred during rioting (the race inciters) should be sent to prison.

I think your position is reasonable and agree with your conclusion, MS.

The details about an altercation in the car weren't confirmed to the public until last night's press conference though.

Some eyewitnesses initially thought that Wilson might have been trying to grab Brown through the window as Brown tried to get away from being threatened with a gun, IIRC. Others reported seeing the two struggle, but that's all they saw/perceived. Some witnesses saw no altercation at the vehicle. Multiple eyewitness accounts are generally inconsistent and always need to be investigated. The police reported that Brown was assaulting Wilson through the window. Last night was the first public confirmation that the physical evidence seems to support the police's account.

That was a critical piece of information for me and (I imagine) others who were on the fence waiting for more evidence. Still, though it appears that Brown assaulted Wilson through the vehicle window, it does not mean with certainty that Wilson had to shoot Brown after Brown ran off. It does not mean that Brown was demonic and looking to charge at Wilson after initially running off and being shot at. It does not mean that Wilson believed there was a threat to his life and he shot 12 times in perceived self-defense.

But, for me, Wilson's actions and claimed mindset are believable and reasonable in the context of Michael Brown having brazenly and aggressively assaulted the officer first. I will be surprised if no members of the black community come forward and express the same conclusion. If so, they likely won't make the front pages -- you have to look at several sources to find them (just like when scores of Muslims denounce Islamic terrorists and many people claim that it's not happening, simply because it's not headline news).

I understand the protestors who think that Wilson shouldn't have shot or kept shooting Brown once he was a fair distance from Wilson and/or he was surrendering, even if Brown was the initial aggressor. But, I gotta give Wilson the benefit of the doubt (and I still have some) based on the evidence shared last night.

Striking to me was the blood evidence showing Brown moved back towards the car about 21 feet after he was shot in the hand. It seemingly also supported Wilson's claim he shot Brown from 8-10 feet away.

(11-25-2014, 12:53 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:

(11-25-2014, 11:47 AM)Midwest Spy Wrote: Here's the problem I have with this incident.

Black community screams injustice as an unarmed teenager is gunned down in the middle of the street as he's surrendering.

First of all, he's a criminal/thug. He's on videotape stealing, he gets into a physical altercation with a cop (eyewitnesses confirm this) and then it becomes a he said/she said as to whether or not he's surrendering or charging.

Who attacks a cop through the car window of their squad? Someone obviously brazen enough to think they can get away with it.

From the charts I've seen as to the gunshot wounds, they could easily have occurred as someone was running at the police officer.

The real problem I have is there's not ONE sensible, reasonable voice in the black community that has said, "you know what, let's look at the facts here. This kid was a troublemaker, attacked a cop, and got himself killed in the process."

If ordinary, law-abiding citizens (black) were being harassed, beat up or killed in this community (and there was evidence) I'd support them in their efforts to create change and send people to prison.

This is an isolated incident where a kid thought he could do whatever he wanted

The people who should be held responsible for damages that have occurred during rioting (the race inciters) should be sent to prison.

I think your position is reasonable and agree with your conclusion, MS.

The details about an altercation in the car weren't confirmed to the public until last night's press conference though.

Some eyewitnesses initially thought that Wilson might have been trying to grab Brown through the window as Brown tried to get away from being threatened with a gun, IIRC. Others reported seeing the two struggle, but that's all they saw/perceived. Some witnesses saw no altercation at the vehicle. Multiple eyewitness accounts are generally inconsistent and always need to be investigated. The police reported that Brown was assaulting Wilson through the window. Last night was the first public confirmation that the physical evidence seems to support the police's account.

That was a critical piece of information for me and (I imagine) others who were on the fence waiting for more evidence. Still, though it appears that Brown assaulted Wilson through the vehicle window, it does not mean with certainty that Wilson had to shoot Brown after Brown ran off. It does not mean that Brown was demonic and looking to charge at Wilson after initially running off and being shot at. It does not mean that Wilson believed there was a threat to his life and he shot 12 times in perceived self-defense.

But, for me, Wilson's actions and claimed mindset are believable and reasonable in the context of Michael Brown having brazenly and aggressively assaulted the officer first. I will be surprised if no members of the black community come forward and express the same conclusion. If so, they likely won't make the front pages -- you have to look at several sources to find them (just like when scores of Muslims denounce Islamic terrorists and many people claim that it's not happening, simply because it's not headline news).

I understand the protestors who think that Wilson shouldn't have shot or kept shooting Brown once he was a fair distance from Wilson and/or he was surrendering, even if Brown was the initial aggressor. But, I gotta give Wilson the benefit of the doubt (and I still have some) based on the evidence shared last night.

From what I gathered from the presser, the eyewittnesses made Wilson's case. Some changed their story, and the ones who didn't change their stories were deemed incredible based on the evidence.

(11-25-2014, 01:17 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: From what I gathered from the presser, the eyewittnesses made Wilson's case. Some changed their story, and the ones who didn't change their stories were deemed incredible based on the evidence.

You might be right.

I didn't get quite the same impression. I thought it was the physical evidence (the burn wound on Brown's thumb, etc) that made Wilson's case and that last night the prosecutor was explaining how that physical evidence was used to draw a conclusion in favor of Wilson, even though the conclusion conflicted with some of the initial witness accounts.

I think it was a totality of the evidence, including some details of witness accounts extracted during investigation, that lent credence to Wilson's version and prevented the grand jury from indicting him.

Hey, Duchess -- I just read Piers' opinion on the grand jury decision. I agree actually agree with him on a couple of points! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...story.html

I'd like to say kudos to the eyewitnesses (particularly the black ones) who had the courage to testify honestly to what they saw.

Not an easy thing to do and they should somehow be commended.

(11-25-2014, 02:45 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: I'd like to say kudos to the eyewitnesses (particularly the black ones) who had the courage to testify honestly to what they saw.

Not an easy thing to do and they should somehow be commended.

Jesus Christ, MS. And, just when I start thinking you're making good sense.

Black people deserve extra credit for telling the truth during a sealed investigation under oath, because........ white people are always so damned honest and black people are such liars? How condescending.

It's common knowledge that eye witness testimony is unreliable on first pass. Many times eye witnesses are telling the exact truth of what they saw, but it doesn't match up to what actually went down due to perceptions, memory, subconscious bias, and many other factors. It doesn't mean they were lying in the first place -- that applies to people of all colors.

Related info: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...xt_06.html

It wasn't that black people can't or won't be honest, I just felt like any eyewitness would be under considerable outside pressure to have their testimony fit an agenda.

Just my opinion.

I watched the idiots Christmas shopping in Ferguson. They could have waited till Friday for the verdict I mean it is Black Friday. OR They could have indicted him for the hell of it, if for anything just to quell any looting as this is what its really all about. A free giveaway. Notice how all the beauty shops were attacked? Merry Christmas big ole balubas.
Trouble makers and criminals did this .......and the media. It sets up an agenda so all I can say is lock & load.