(03-31-2015, 08:16 PM)Maggot Wrote: I imagine that once Muslims start trying to deter gays from their Mosques that the shit will hit the fan. Lord knows that Christians have gotten a ton of slack from doing it. That and abortion. The administration and the media will fight it tooth and nail. Right?

A mosque is a religious institution. A building built for worship. Kind of like a Christian church. Or a Jewish temple. No abortions or cake baking going on in any of them, that I know of. And we all know how Jesus feels about doing business/commerce in his father's house. But that is a whole other story, am I right?

ARKANSAS RFRA NOW ON HOLD

Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson (Republican) said on Wednesday he would not yet sign a controversial religious freedom act into law, requesting that the state legislature make changes to the bill in the wake of criticism that the legislation could be used to facilitate discrimination against LGBT citizens and other groups.

Hutchinson said at a press conference that he was seeking changes to make Arkansas' legislation mirror the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act signed by former President Bill Clinton in 1993. Hutchinson previously had promised to sign the legislation. The surprising announcement came a day after Indiana Gov. Mike Pence was forced to defend a similar law in his state. After facing a national firestorm, Pence called on Tuesday for new legislation that would clarify that his law does not grant businesses the right to deny services to anyone.

Full story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/01...85090.html

Refusing to serve a customer because of their sexual orientation /religion/fashion sense flies in the face of the concept of capitalism. The Muslim/gay dollar is still a dollar.

(03-31-2015, 08:36 PM)Donovan Wrote: Here's a question I've been mulling over, semi-related to this topic and the interesting turns it has taken in recent days: with the internet blowing up bullies and badguys by the dozen, and protests springing up against people like the Westboro clowns and Spence...are we entering an age of militant liberalism? Seems like a natural reaction to the era of neocon fox news xenophobic religious fervor. One thing is for sure: we live in interesting times.

I thought so during the "occupy Wall Street" movement. I'm not sure that qualified as militant liberalism but it felt a little like the rise of the proletariat.

Another thing that sort of fascinates and repulses me is the continued march toward towards "political correctness". The guy that is taking over Jon Stewart's seat is getting some grief for tweets he made poking fun at women, a joke or two about Jews. He's a comedian FFS! And, he spared no one....he poked fun at himself, Africa and on and on but there are those that think Comedy Central shouldn't allow him to replace Stewart. Give me a break.

(04-02-2015, 12:57 PM)username Wrote: Another thing that sort of fascinates and repulses me is the continued march toward towards "political correctness". The guy that is taking over Jon Stewart's seat is getting some grief for tweets he made poking fun at women, a joke or two about Jews. He's a comedian FFS! And, he spared no one....he poked fun at himself, Africa and on and on but there are those that think Comedy Central shouldn't allow him to replace Stewart. Give me a break.

Kind of like Gilbert Gottfried losing his AFLAC gig when he made jokes about the Japanese tsunami. I thought the same thing then - he's a comedian who's made a career on being crass and annoying...

(04-02-2015, 01:05 PM)Jimbone Wrote:

(04-02-2015, 12:57 PM)username Wrote: Another thing that sort of fascinates and repulses me is the continued march toward towards "political correctness". The guy that is taking over Jon Stewart's seat is getting some grief for tweets he made poking fun at women, a joke or two about Jews. He's a comedian FFS! And, he spared no one....he poked fun at himself, Africa and on and on but there are those that think Comedy Central shouldn't allow him to replace Stewart. Give me a break.

Kind of like Gilbert Gottfried losing his AFLAC gig when he made jokes about the Japanese tsunami. I thought the same thing then - he's a comedian who's made a career on being crass and annoying...

There are far too many examples of people losing their jobs and/or being publicly persecuted for words (be they in the form of tweets or spoken--Paula Deen). It's a disturbing trend towards censorship and away from freedom of speech.

(04-02-2015, 01:23 PM)username Wrote: There are far too many examples of people losing their jobs and/or being publicly persecuted for words (be they in the form of tweets or spoken--Paula Deen). It's a disturbing trend towards censorship and away from freedom of speech.

That's kind of what I find sadly ironic about these sorts of things... gay rights, gay marriage, LGBT issues (whatever you want to call them) have basically won their arguments. The culture has shifted and rightly so in my opinion... but this thing in Indiana sort of strikes me as the pendulum swinging way too far to the other side. It's almost like winning their argument wasn't enough - now you must accept it or else. Reminds me exactly of the extremism on the other side they were arguing against.

Maybe it is a form or radical liberalism like Donovan suggested? I don't know, but it sure is unseemly on either side. I grew up thinking there were better ways to solve problems, but these days people are just throwing bombs at each other. Interesting times certainly are afoot, and I'm not sure it's a good thing.

But we've gotten through worse shit. I imagine this will pass as well.

(04-02-2015, 01:36 PM)Jimbone Wrote:

(04-02-2015, 01:23 PM)username Wrote: There are far too many examples of people losing their jobs and/or being publicly persecuted for words (be they in the form of tweets or spoken--Paula Deen). It's a disturbing trend towards censorship and away from freedom of speech.

That's kind of what I find sadly ironic about these sorts of things... gay rights, gay marriage, LGBT issues (whatever you want to call them) have basically won their arguments. The culture has shifted and rightly so in my opinion... but this thing in Indiana sort of strikes me as the pendulum swinging way too far to the other side. It's almost like winning their argument wasn't enough - now you must accept it or else. Reminds me exactly of the extremism on the other side they were arguing against.

Maybe it is a form or radical liberalism like Donovan suggested? I don't know, but it sure is unseemly on either side. I grew up thinking there were better ways to solve problems, but these days people are just throwing bombs at each other. Interesting times certainly are afoot, and I'm not sure it's a good thing.

But we've gotten through worse shit. I imagine this will pass as well.

Mr. Bone, nice to see you after your absence. I don't think any of the "minorities," have basically won their arguments quite yet. There just is too much of blatant discrimination among us and I include women in these minority groups. It is still a man's world and we know from recent studies, that women are still receiving less pay than men for same job. I know it gets tiring to be politically "correct." It does get annoying. ....someone misspeaks and then everyone gets on the bandwagon demanding an apology, etc.....I totally agree here....but I think as the older generations die off (myself included, of course), this will be a different country in 100 years. Today's youth don't care about the color of your skin, your religion, your sexual orientation. They just accept and love each other. I recently read that the Hispanics will top the US population by 2035 and eventually Caucasians will be the minority....I don't agree with Don who said something about extreme liberalism causing this, but rather the right wing religious entities who are still very actively thumping their Bibles and trying to regress to an earlier time. They fear change and progress....it is scary, but we can't remain stagnant without destroying each other.....and they hide their disdain/hatred behind their "religion." A Church and Bible does not equal a Christian. Another old adage, you really don't know what it feels like until you have walked in the shoes of those who are being discriminated against. Yeah, we have become more accepting and open in our society which is a good thing, a sign of progress IMO...but the struggle continues...and the division among us is very visible and real....Now let us gather around the campfire and roast marshmallows....and wieners, too.

(04-02-2015, 06:36 PM)blueberryhill Wrote: ...Now let us gather around the campfire and roast marshmallows....and wieners, too.

Dear Clang,

I hope you make it to the weenie roast.

Please leave the babies at home.

Sincerely, HOTD

(04-02-2015, 06:36 PM)blueberryhill Wrote: ....but rather the right wing religious entities who are still very actively thumping their Bibles and trying to regress to an earlier time. They fear change and progress....it is scary, but we can't remain stagnant without destroying each other.....and they hide their disdain/hatred behind their "religion." A Church and Bible does not equal a Christian. Another old adage, you really don't know what it feels like until you have walked in the shoes of those who are being discriminated against.

Meh, the right wing religious entities are as entitled to their beliefs as those that fight to wear head scarves or grow their beards... I don't necessarily agree with them but they're entitled to their own beliefs.

"You don't really know what it feels like until you have walked in the shoes of those who are being discriminated against". Here again, I agree and disagree. Equal Opportunity laws can discriminate against white males, for example (and others). Same with the NAACP...ya' don't see an organization out there (at least considered "reputable") for the NAAWP. If Hispanics are going to become the majority (I've read the same thing), isn't it time for an NAAWP? Why not? Because that would be politically incorrect. I'm all for tolerance but it has to work all the way around. Bashing the bible thumpers...I don't think that's the answer either.

(04-02-2015, 08:37 PM)username Wrote:

(04-02-2015, 06:36 PM)blueberryhill Wrote: ....but rather the right wing religious entities who are still very actively thumping their Bibles and trying to regress to an earlier time. They fear change and progress....it is scary, but we can't remain stagnant without destroying each other.....and they hide their disdain/hatred behind their "religion." A Church and Bible does not equal a Christian. Another old adage, you really don't know what it feels like until you have walked in the shoes of those who are being discriminated against.

Meh, the right wing religious entities are as entitled to their beliefs as those that fight to wear head scarves or grow their beards... I don't necessarily agree with them but they're entitled to their own beliefs.

"You don't really know what it feels like until you have walked in the shoes of those who are being discriminated against". Here again, I agree and disagree. Equal Opportunity laws can discriminate against white males, for example (and others). Same with the NAACP...ya' don't see an organization out there (at least considered "reputable") for the NAAWP. If Hispanics are going to become the majority (I've read the same thing), isn't it time for an NAAWP? Why not? Because that would be politically incorrect. I'm all for tolerance but it has to work all the way around. Bashing the bible thumpers...I don't think that's the answer either.

The right wing religious zealots are trying to outlaw abortion. I am pro- choice. Women died in the 50's and 60's from illegal abortions. I resent that these people try to take away rights of women to control their own bodies. The Government does not belong in the bedroom. Some others quote the Bible as being gay is "an abomination," and thus contribute to continued discrimination. I could go on and on, but guess my entire point here, is that in 100 years, none of us will be here, and it won't matter one bit, but change and progress is painful. Yes, I will continue to bash the Bibe thumpers, because IMO, they are hypocrites. Churches (?) like the Westboro Baptist church in Topeka, Kansas are Bible thumpers. They are hypocrites, judgmental, bigoted, and hateful and you may believe that they have rights. You want to be a bible thumper, fine, just don't go public with it and use it as an excuse to hate. "you" in a general sense. Sorry I just don't have any tolerance for haters of people, who just happen to be different from you.

Your slip might be showing a little BBH... you don't have tolerance for haters of people, but from what you are saying you will continue to bash bible thumpers for not believing what you believe. You don't want them to believe what they believe. That in and of itself is the problem no matter which side of any given argument you happen to be on.

When it comes to pro-lifers, for as much as you resent them, they likely resent you for what they believe to be killing human life. And under our Constitution, Westboro congregants do have rights, as have been affirmed by the US Supreme Courts. Same with the KKK, Black Panthers, etc... they have rights, but very few people follow such hateful ideologies.

I suspect the first few cave people disagreed on where to build the fire. They probably argued in their own way, they probably physically fought, and some probably died because of it. It's human nature.

We are just carrying on the tradition, and not with much more civility I'm afraid.

Yeah. There shouldn't be a double standard. You either have the right to religious freedom (across all religions) or you don't. While I might abhor some of the practices by any religious extremists (the Westboro Church being one), I don't want to live in a country where their weirdo opinions are actually against the law. That's scary to me. I'm okay with keeping them a certain number of feet from a private funeral but there's a line that I think where government could over reach.

(04-02-2015, 09:32 PM)Jimbone Wrote: Your slip might be showing a little BBH... you don't have tolerance for haters of people, but from what you are saying you will continue to bash bible thumpers for not believing what you believe. You don't want them to believe what they believe. That in and of itself is the problem no matter which side of any given argument you happen to be on.

When it comes to pro-lifers, for as much as you resent them, they likely resent you for what they believe to be killing human life. And under our Constitution, Westboro congregants do have rights, as have been affirmed by the US Supreme Courts. Same with the KKK, Black Panthers, etc... they have rights, but very few people follow such hateful ideologies.

I suspect the first few cave people disagreed on where to build the fire. They probably argued in their own way, they probably physically fought, and some probably died because of it. It's human nature.

We are just carrying on the tradition, and not with much more civility I'm afraid.

You are right about one thing, I will continue to bash the Bible Thumpers, because of their hypocritical agendas, i.e, hate, gay bashing, etc. Yes, I realize that Westboro, the KKK, and other hate groups have rights. We all know that sometimes the criminal has more rights than the victim, but we should not be silent about them. I am fed up with all the name calling going on because someone disagrees with you (not you personally)and this over rides disagreeing on where to build a fire, and I guess some of the earliest human dwellers actually ate each other so maybe we have evolved somewhat. i don't want to so i am just going to close now and sign out. I am the way I am, and that is why I went into the mental health business, Family/Child Dev and Counseling. Just find it difficult to see all the hate and division we have now.

Nothing but crickets chirping. Where is the MSM when you need them.

^ That was a good entertaining video which actually sums up the issues well.

It's already legal for private businesses (be they owned by Muslims, Christians, Jews, Satanists...)to refuse to engage in gay-specific services UNLESS there's a state or county or city specific gay anti-discriminatory law in place.

So, the state RFRA isn't restoring any religious freedom in that regard because that freedom was never taken away by the federal RFRA and gays aren't covered by civil rights protections anyway. (I think that's one reason some states want to get RFRAs in place -- they fear the fed civil rights guarantees are going to be expanded to specifically cover gays.)

And, as Adub alluded upthread, although they might be considered public rather than private institutions by some, churches, mosques, temples, synagogues, etc...are free to discriminate against gays all day and all of the night. They are not classified as individuals or business entities, no matter how many millions of dollars they collect in those "not-for-profit religious institutions". So, they don't have to accept gay members or perform gay ceremonies AND they're also tax-exempt (the latter being a very sweet deal for them; just keep re-investing in the growing religious enterprise and no money is owed to the government).

Cash is King & money is God. Take their money for fuckssake.

Where is Eric holder when you need him? I mean there HAS to be a beer summit in there somewhere.

The internet has given $500,000 to the Indiana pizzeria owners who said they'd never cater a gay wedding


I will never cater a gay wedding!!!!!

I've never met a gay that didn't have impeccable taste. I'm finding the idea of a pizza parlor catering a gay wedding hard to believe. White trash, sure but gays, no.