Smelly Infidel!!!! I will keel you!!!

Some good news!!!

The Obama administration helped to secure the release of several Iranians detained in the United States and the United Kingdom, some convicted of illegal arms smuggling, according to a report that comes as U.S. prisoners languish in Iranian jails.

The Wall Street Journal reported on Sunday that, as part of a “wish list” Iran presented to the United States in 2009 before the current nuclear negotiations, U.S. officials helped expedite the release of four Iranian prisoners in 2012 and 2013. Three were convicted of illegally sending arms or other banned materials to Iran while the international community sought to enforce sanctions on the country’s nuclear program.

link

Such nonsense and we should know better.

(07-16-2015, 12:35 PM)Maggot Wrote: Some good news!!!

The Obama administration helped to secure the release of several Iranians detained in the United States and the United Kingdom, some convicted of illegal arms smuggling, according to a report that comes as U.S. prisoners languish in Iranian jails.

The Wall Street Journal reported on Sunday that, as part of a “wish list” Iran presented to the United States in 2009 before the current nuclear negotiations, U.S. officials helped expedite the release of four Iranian prisoners in 2012 and 2013. Three were convicted of illegally sending arms or other banned materials to Iran while the international community sought to enforce sanctions on the country’s nuclear program.

link

Such nonsense and we should know better.

I think my biggest concern in all of this is not so much the tit for tat prisoner deals, but rather coming to terms with the fact that in 10 years Iran will have nuclear weapons. The whole region is unstable, but specifically Iran having nuclear weapons scares the hell out of me. That country has never played well in the sandbox with us or it's neighbors.

I heard one talking head speculate that gas will be down around $2.00 gallon by fall.

I haven't studied all the terms of the deal but the inspection process does sound weak (from what I've heard).

However, while I agree this may well go the way of N. Korea, I also believe Iran was shortly going to have a nuclear weapon. I don't think sanctions were going to prevent that. As O said yesterday, it was either a deal or stopping them by force (war). Anybody feel like going to war with Iran?

Israel (hating the deal) is reminding the world of its right to defend itself including using military force. By all means...after you, BB.

(07-16-2015, 03:24 PM)username Wrote: I heard one talking head speculate that gas will be down around $2.00 gallon by fall.

I haven't studied all the terms of the deal but the inspection process does sound weak (from what I've heard).

However, while I agree this may well go the way of N. Korea, I also believe Iran was shortly going to have a nuclear weapon. I don't think sanctions were going to prevent that. As O said yesterday, it was either a deal or stopping them by force (war). Anybody feel like going to war with Iran?

Israel (hating the deal) is reminding the world of its right to defend itself including using military force. By all means...after you, BB.

If we're going to go to war with Iran, I'd prefer it be now rather than after they have a nuclear assault force, so I guess I'd throw my hat into that ring. This isn't a "we will wait and see if they make nukes deal, this is go ahead and make nukes while we watch" deal. And yeah, the surprise inspections sound like they're full of blurry lines.

Just think 60 yrs ago today the U.S. lit up an atomic bomb in New Mehico. Iran will be 70 yrs behind us when they lite theirs.

I'm not even trying to understand the yea/nay back and forth anymore.

If the President says its OK why worry?

(07-16-2015, 04:58 PM)Maggot Wrote: If the President says its OK why worry?

That's true. "We should know better."

(07-16-2015, 03:24 PM)username Wrote: However, while I agree this may well go the way of N. Korea, I also believe Iran was shortly going to have a nuclear weapon. I don't think sanctions were going to prevent that. As O said yesterday, it was either a deal or stopping them by force (war). Anybody feel like going to war with Iran?

He only presented a false choice. What was wrong with a third choice: no deal?

If they are going to get the nuke anyway - which I think most everyone believes they will - why even bother with the deal? Why not just keep sanctions in place while they get what everyone believes they are going to get anyway?

Answer: $$$$$$$

Europe wanted to re-open the Iranian market because their economies need it. If Europe dropped out of the sanctions, there was plenty of cash that was going to flow into Iran anyway. Obama needed the deal so that he didn't have sanctions fall apart on his watch, so this deal provides cover for that.

Of course now we have an arms race in the Middle East, with Saudi Arabia and other countries now actively engaging in nuclear contracts with Russia.

I'm sure this will all end well.

Everyone wants the ability to be able to fight back. If I take that on its own I can understand that desire and I'm not sure how anyone can fault them for wanting that.

Actually this is a smart move, and if you really want to think deeply into dark politics probably has been in planning stages for longer than Obama's been president. Our country is all about misdirection: look over here at what we tell you to focus on, while we ask you to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Iran is virtually the only major middle eastern power still secular enough to make a passable ally, and they will have nukes whether we want them to or not. We were beholden to the Saudis so much so that we had to swallow their involvement in 9-11 and pretend we liked the taste so they'd keep giving us oil, and we've been beholden to the increasingly hostile Israelis just to keep a foothold over there, but they may have few, or no, allies left and a sudden loss of that anchor would be catastrophic. We did a lot of destabilizing over there in the guise of promoting democracy, which served two purposes. First, it toppled minor despots or preoccupied them to the extent that they remain dis-unified with one another. A fully united middle east would be a scary proposition for our interests and those of both Israel AND Iran. Israel gets off the hotseat as the major focus of hate in the region for a bit. All the fighter groups are busy trying to grab power in their own regions. And finally, Iran is placed in a position of both strength and weakness, as the USA just gave them instant world credibility by extending the diplomatic hand, while carefully maneuvering our own positions so that, should things go south, we got them fuckers surrounded in a three-sided vise.

It's political genius, we're good cop and bad cop all at the same time.

I'm sure Israel is contemplating attacking Iranian centrifuges as they did before. They would need bunker busters though and possibly be the beginnings of a world war.

(07-17-2015, 01:20 PM)Maggot Wrote: I'm sure Israel is contemplating attacking Iranian centrifuges as they did before. They would need bunker busters though and possibly be the beginnings of a world war.

Which is my concern with Dono's brilliant 3-sided vice theory. Don't believe for one minute that the likes of Russia, China, North Korea and company don't have their hands in the mix and offers on the table.

(07-16-2015, 05:50 PM)Jimbone Wrote:

(07-16-2015, 03:24 PM)username Wrote: However, while I agree this may well go the way of N. Korea, I also believe Iran was shortly going to have a nuclear weapon. I don't think sanctions were going to prevent that. As O said yesterday, it was either a deal or stopping them by force (war). Anybody feel like going to war with Iran?

He only presented a false choice. What was wrong with a third choice: no deal?

If they are going to get the nuke anyway - which I think most everyone believes they will - why even bother with the deal? Why not just keep sanctions in place while they get what everyone believes they are going to get anyway?

Answer: $$$$$$$

I suppose we could have kept our sanctions in place...while we watched them develop a nuclear weapon. Israel would still be freaking out, we'd have to make a decision about what we were going to do to prevent that (again, start bombing Iran?) or make some diplomatic "agreement" that may well turn out to be something of a farce but brings our gas prices down to $2+ a gallon!

I just think it was rock/hard place. Absent war, we weren't going to stop them from developing a nuclear weapon. Maybe....(I'm naive) but maybe....this will slow them down a bit while they bask in their new found economic windfall.

I don't think we could "win" this without once again, being put in the position of intervening militarily. I think if Israel/BB (or others in the region) find this whole arrangement unacceptable, they should initiate military action. Recent history shows that we don't exactly create stability/democracy when we insert ourselves militarily in to the middle east. Especially when we're leading the charge.

I'm tired of (and disappointed by) our efforts to police the middle east. Sanctions were clearly helping to ruin their economy--but not deferring them from developing nuclear weapons. I say let one of our allies in the region take the lead. If they initiate some other action, I'd agree to supporting our allies but I don't think WE (the U.S.) should always have to lead on these issues.

Like Donovan says its the money and the U.S.A. has plenty. Obviously.

Not to mention we're going to need Iran as halfway friendly toward us if the situation deteriorates further over there. Our biggest danger is inadvertantly creating another Persian empire. As far as Russia and China are concerned, Russia is no longer any sort of credible factor in world affairs as long as they are corrupted by their internal struggles and greed. And China is about to discover the ugly side of capitalism without restraint as their economic bubble pops.

If you want to really figure out who a country is allied with, look at who benefits from the actions we take. The destabilization of the middle east helped out Israel, sure, but it also helped Iran in a lot of very concrete ways.

(07-17-2015, 09:11 PM)Donovan Wrote: Not to mention we're going to need Iran as halfway friendly toward us if the situation deteriorates further over there. Our biggest danger is inadvertantly creating another Persian empire. As far as Russia and China are concerned, Russia is no longer any sort of credible factor in world affairs as long as they are corrupted by their internal struggles and greed. And China is about to discover the ugly side of capitalism without restraint as their economic bubble pops.

If you want to really figure out who a country is allied with, look at who benefits from the actions we take. The destabilization of the middle east helped out Israel, sure, but it also helped Iran in a lot of very concrete ways.

Precisely why they will be looking to make some quick money. You couldn't have segwayed to my point any better.

Is it time to bend over and kiss my ass goodbye?

Unfortunately I think we are all going to live and see the day this all goes very badly.

Obama just got rolled by the mullahs in Iran.

Or did he?