(09-30-2015, 07:14 AM)ramseycat Wrote: Duchess,
Do you believe a person can change?

Yes, I do. Many people who are incarcerated find God and/or devote the remainder of their life to doing good behind bars. It doesn't take away from their despicable act that landed them there in the first place. Time heals many wounds and I understand why some would rather the offender not be put to death, I get that but nonetheless she deserved to pay for her crime with her life. After her husband was murdered she brought gas to her boyfriend so that they could torch the car and demolish any evidence that would have been left behind. She planned this crime and saw it through to the end and she did it for financial gain.

(09-30-2015, 07:21 AM)Duchess Wrote:

(09-30-2015, 07:14 AM)ramseycat Wrote: Duchess,
Do you believe a person can change?

Yes, I do. Many people who are incarcerated find God and/or devote the remainder of their life to doing good behind bars. It doesn't take away from their despicable act that landed them there in the first place. Time heals many wounds and I understand why some would rather the offender not be put to death, I get that but nonetheless she deserved to pay for her crime with her life. After her husband was murdered she brought gas to her boyfriend so that they could torch the car and demolish any evidence that would have been left behind. She planned this crime and saw it through to the end and she did it for financial gain.

How much mercy was given to the deceased? None? Fuck her and piss on her corpse.

(09-30-2015, 02:52 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I don't think the death penalty is a deterrent at all.

So, I have mixed feelings about the death penalty. Maybe the same could be accomplished by abolishing the death penalty but keeping death-row conditions in place for the worst of the worst? IDK.

I would vote for that. Not only is the death penalty not a deterrent, it's a ginormous money sucking endeavor as compared to life without parole (in a death row type environment).

(09-30-2015, 12:44 PM)username Wrote:

(09-30-2015, 02:52 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I don't think the death penalty is a deterrent at all.

So, I have mixed feelings about the death penalty. Maybe the same could be accomplished by abolishing the death penalty but keeping death-row conditions in place for the worst of the worst? IDK.

I would vote for that. Not only is the death penalty not a deterrent, it's a ginormous money sucking endeavor as compared to life without parole (in a death row type environment).

I'm confused. You're saying you'd vote to keep the death row environment and are acknowledging that "it's a ginormous money sucking endeavor." So you believe we continue to toss money into that pit? The execution is the cheapest part of a death sentence. Is a death row environment a deterrent for the worst of the worst? I don't believe it is for most. Most of those guys are lifers to begin with.

I'm not speaking for user; this is my opinion.

I'm not proposing keeping a death-row like environment for the purpose of deterring violent crime. I don't think that or the death penalty itself deters the worst of the worst anyway.

Keeping that environment would be for the purpose of leverage. If a killer agreed to give up locations of bodies, details of the crime, make a valid confession that could be substantiated, enter a guilty plea and save the victims and the state the emotional and financial expense of trial...for example, then the isolation that comes with a death-row like environment could be taken off the table in the same way the death penalty itself is sometimes taken off the table now.

And, user's right. Capital trials take longer and cost way more than most other trials. Then, if the defendant is convicted, he/she is entitled to a series of automatic appeals that also cost the state and the taxpayers money and puts the case and the killer back in the news, which some victims would rather not relive. Some financial analysts conclude that pursuing and carrying out the death penalty also costs more than incarcerating a murderer for life.

It would take a Supreme Court decision ruling that the death penalty is unconstitutional in order to abolish it nationwide though; it's currently a decision made by each state. I don't see that happening, at least not in the near future. The majority of people in a lot of states still strongly support the death penalty and death penalty opponents haven't had a lot of luck with Supreme Court rulings.

Refs:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29552692/ns/us...tion-cost/
http://deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42

Texas is pretty good at cleaning the stables.

Look at all the money that was spent on that twat Jodi Arias and she still wasn't sentenced to death because a juror just couldn't do that to her. Ugh. Sorry I'm even thinking about her again.

(09-30-2015, 01:09 PM)Maggot Wrote: Texas is pretty good at cleaning the stables.

Yeah, but some of those put to death have been posthumously proven not guilty.

And, people are getting cleared of death penalty convictions before they get put to death on a regular basis too; almost 5% of death row inmates.

Tighten up the requirements to pursue the death penalty significantly or abolish the death penalty altogether -- either would be an improvement over the current system, in my opinion.

(09-30-2015, 01:09 PM)Maggot Wrote: Texas is pretty good at cleaning the stables.

They do indeed and in doing so keep cost down.

That's why I'm not at all sorry for anyone that kills themselves because they killed someone else. It may be the only selfless thing they ever did.

(09-30-2015, 01:09 PM)Maggot Wrote: Texas is pretty good at cleaning the stables.

In addition, violent offenders and drug traffickers avoid Texas like the plague, so in some ways it IS a deterrent.

Basically what HotD said about the costs associated with actually putting someone to death. My comment regarding a death row environment is that I don't think the worst of the worst ought to have opportunities to pursue an education, spend hours outdoors with the general population etc. I don't think they should necessarily have the option to gain privileges that some other inmates might have access to.

People always say the "fix" is speeding up the death penalty process. I don't think that's going to happen.

And, with regards to Texas, I just read an article from The Atlantic that cites a decline in executions there resulting from several Supreme Court decisions (can't execute those who committed crimes before age 18, problems with the lethal injection drugs etc). Can't post the link from my phone.

IIRC, California hasn't executed anyone in over 10 years. Waste of money for a non deterrent as far as I'm concerned.

I always kinda snort when I read about executions being put on hold because there might be a problem with the lethal injection drug. Only in America. Don't mind me, just thinking out loud so to speak. Carry on.

(09-30-2015, 02:20 PM)Duchess Wrote:

I always kinda snort when I read about executions being put on hold because there might be a problem with the lethal injection drug. Only in America. Don't mind me, just thinking out loud so to speak. Carry on.

We supposedly euthanize animals humanely; why it's such a problem with humans escapes me.

(09-30-2015, 02:13 PM)username Wrote: Basically what HotD said about the costs associated with actually putting someone to death. My comment regarding a death row environment is that I don't think the worst of the worst ought to have opportunities to pursue an education, spend hours outdoors with the general population etc. I don't think they should necessarily have the option to gain privileges that some other inmates might have access to.

People always say the "fix" is speeding up the death penalty process. I don't think that's going to happen.

And, with regards to Texas, I just read an article from The Atlantic that cites a decline in executions there resulting from several Supreme Court decisions (can't execute those who committed crimes before age 18, problems with the lethal injection drugs etc). Can't post the link from my phone.

IIRC, California hasn't executed anyone in over 10 years. Waste of money for a non deterrent as far as I'm concerned.

Even if they were wrongly accused? Just playing a little devils advocate here.

In the future when DNA is used more often we may see an expedient process. Hanging is a cool way to go. Fast, doesn't cost much and you can hire any psychopath to pull the lever without feelings. Gary Gilmore had the right idea, they need a choice.

They were doing that in my state up until just a few years ago.

(09-30-2015, 03:18 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:

(09-30-2015, 02:13 PM)username Wrote: Basically what HotD said about the costs associated with actually putting someone to death. My comment regarding a death row environment is that I don't think the worst of the worst ought to have opportunities to pursue an education, spend hours outdoors with the general population etc. I don't think they should necessarily have the option to gain privileges that some other inmates might have access to.

People always say the "fix" is speeding up the death penalty process. I don't think that's going to happen.

And, with regards to Texas, I just read an article from The Atlantic that cites a decline in executions there resulting from several Supreme Court decisions (can't execute those who committed crimes before age 18, problems with the lethal injection drugs etc). Can't post the link from my phone.

IIRC, California hasn't executed anyone in over 10 years. Waste of money for a non deterrent as far as I'm concerned.

Even if they were wrongly accused? Just playing a little devils advocate here.

There's always a risk that someone is wrongly accused/convicted. For those that are, at least if they're later found innocent they can be released. Not so much if they're dead.

I say keep the death penalty, the reason it is not seen as much of a deterrent is because of the liberal assholes and allowing appeal after appeal. It costs so much because of the appeals taking 15 years to get done. Fuckem, give them 1 appeal and a speedy trial, not 10 years. Then if their appeal fails cap their ass

(09-30-2015, 05:32 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote: I say keep the death penalty, the reason it is not seen as much of a deterrent is because of the liberal assholes and allowing appeal after appeal. It costs so much because of the appeals taking 15 years to get done. Fuckem, give them 1 appeal and a speedy trial, not 10 years. Then if their appeal fails cap their ass

Yup.