How long before this happens? I'm taking bets.

This isn't something I wish for. Republicans can't control Trump but they can & will control Pence. Mike Pence thinks your business is his business in regards to your bodies, your sex life and your love life.

I don't think it will happen at all

I don't see it at this point.

Obama will pardon Clinton so she will be able to ride off into the sunset.

Wouldn't one have to be convicted in order to get pardoned?

(11-12-2016, 09:59 AM)Maggot Wrote: Obama will pardon Clinton so she will be able to ride off into the sunset.

(11-12-2016, 11:17 AM)Duchess Wrote:

Wouldn't one have to be convicted in order to get pardoned?

I don't think he will be impeached, he was smart enough to win the election so he's not that dumb. He's already toning it down and backing away from some of the outrageous things he's said and it looks like that's more to the disappointment of the people that were against him than for him. "Where's that wall Donald, huh you fucking pussy".

Impeachmment does not always translate to "get/taken out of office".

Quickly comes to mind, Bill was impeached, but he remained in office.

(11-12-2016, 05:57 AM)Duchess Wrote: How long before this happens? I'm taking bets.

This isn't something I wish for. Republicans can't control Trump but they can & will control Pence. Mike Pence thinks your business is his business in regards to your bodies, your sex life and your love life.

I have no idea whether Trump will be impeached or not. I have no idea what Trump will and won't do in terms of policy, respecting the Constitution, leadership, avoiding conflicts of interest between his private business and his public service leadership...because he has been extremely vague, non-factual, unconstitutional, and flip-flopping during his campaign.

It was a winning strategy for him, no doubt. Credit where due. But, it makes it difficult to have an informed opinion as to whether he'll succeed or fail once he no longer has the option to change stances according to the audience and the immediate feedback.

In any case, I want Trump to succeed so long as he fairly represents all Americans and works in good faith for the American people, rather than being motivated almost exclusively by power-mongering and brand-building.

So, I hope for the best and prepare for the worst. We'll see.

As for Pence, I do believe that he'll have more influence than most VPs because the government is not like a private business in its current workings and Trump does not know or have positive relationships with the people with whom he'll need to lead and work after January 17^th. Pence knows the score much better.

Mike Pence is a truly conservative born-again evangelical Catholic. So, yeah, it's not surprising that he's espoused the following views and goals during the course of his political career...

- he thinks homosexuality is a sin and sexual orientation is a choice that can be changed with conversion therapy,
- he strongly opposes gay marriage rights,
- he strongly opposed anti-discrimination laws which specified gay and transgender protections,
-he believes life begins at conception and plans to do everything he can to see 'Roe v. Wade consigned to the ash heap of hell where it belongs',
-he favors legislation requiring women seeking legal abortions to view ultrasounds, etc.

I can't think of any politician more religiously-driven in his social policy positions than Mike Pence, and that includes Mike Huckabee and Ted Cruz.

Anyone who truly doesn't understand why so many gay people and independent non-religiously driven women don't like the idea of Pence having a lot of influence on social policy at a national level doesn't know Mike Pence's well-documented stances and legislative history.

On the plus side, Pence is a lot more transparent about where he really stands and what he wants to do than Trump. And, I've never seen anything that leads me to believe he's not a decent person, even though I fundamentally disagree with his views and goals when it comes to social policies.

So.......I'll protest and become more politically active in working with others again to collectively push back if Pence is allowed to pursue, on a national level, his previous congressional and gubernatorial agendas in regards to controlling the sexual choices of gays and women. That's how democracy works.

(11-12-2016, 12:05 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: - he thinks homosexuality is a sin and sexual orientation is a choice that can be changed with conversion therapy.
- he strongly opposes gay marriage.
- he strongly opposed anti-discrimination laws which specific gay and transgender protections.
-he believes life begins at conception and plans to do everything he can to see 'Roe v. Wade consigned to the ash heap of hell where it belongs'
-he pushed for legislation requiring women seeking legal abortions to view ultrasounds, etc.

This bothers me a great deal. The sheer audacity of him (or anyone) thinking they have any right whatsoever to tell people how to live their life. It makes my nostrils flare like a bull's. I dislike, so much, people butting into the business of others. Love isn't the government's business, nor is anyone's sex life. Why in the world would anyone care who one marries or has sex with, why and why do they think it's their business? These are rhetorical questions as I know most rational people agree with me.

I know your questions were rhetorical, Duchess, and I've asked myself the same ones many times.

I think it's probably a matter of fear of that which differs from oneself + societal conditioning when it comes to those who STILL wish to deny the legitimacy of love and marriage between people of the same sex in this country.

While I don't doubt many Christians are sincere when they claim the Bible drives their resistance to equal rights for gays, that's likely based on conditioning of society by religious and political leadership, in my opinion. Same sex intimacy isn't condemned in versions of the Bible any more than eating pork, adultery, drunkenness, and a host of other common human behaviors today which don't disqualify people from equal rights. And homosexual marriage isn't addressed at all in the Bible.

I remember having a lot of fun going round and round with Dick a few years ago about his contention that God and Jesus prohibited gay marriage. Good times.

Anyway, even knowing the GOP's prevailing desire to suppress women's reproductive choices and gays' rights to be treated equally under the law, I was kinda surprised when I read the RNC 2016 draft platform. It included a point supporting gay conversion therapy for minors.

A couple of days later, I saw RNC chairman Reince Priebus (who I'm betting will be appointed Trump's Chief of Staff) on Meet the Press and was glad to see Chuck Todd ask him how comfortable he was with that platform point.

Reince got real defensive real quick and said, “That’s out – There’s an amendment on that issue. It has been taken out. It’s not in the final platform.”
(Ref: Video of interview excerpt here: http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com...n_platform )

I'm glad it was taken out, but it's disappointing to me that the leaders of a major political party in the USA in the year 2016 had gay conversion therapy on their minds at all whilst drafting their priorities for the country.

(11-12-2016, 11:40 AM)Carsman Wrote: Impeachmment does not always translate to "get/taken out of office".

Quickly comes to mind, Bill was impeached, but he remained in office.

Yes,I had to look this up, too as i always thought impeachment meant to "kick out of office." The House recommends/files for the impeachment, and the Senate votes on it, but in Bill Clinton's case, the impeachment process was never completed because there wasn't the required ²⁄₃ majority vote.

The latest gossip is that Donald has asked for an extension for his upcoming trial (for the faux University scam). He wants to wait until after he becomes President. This itself defies all logic...We have to wait for Pres elect to complete all his upcoming trials for felonies and one of his party's quips was "lock her up." Oh, and reason Donnie wants to wait until after he is President, is so he can pardon himself. Also read he doesn't want to live in Washington, D.C. I think he is flabbergasted that he is going to be President and wants the office, but someone else to do the work, and that appears to be Pence...then we have Guilliani, Palin, demoted Christie, Newt Gingrich, and some wonder why we are scared.....I know this probably belongs in another thread, but I am having pain in my hands so I am using "easy" button whenever possible...

(11-12-2016, 03:44 PM)blueberryhill Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 11:40 AM)Carsman Wrote: Impeachmment does not always translate to "get/taken out of office".

Quickly comes to mind, Bill was impeached, but he remained in office.

Yes,I had to look this up, too as i always thought impeachment meant to "kick out of office." The House recommends/files for the impeachment, and the Senate votes on it, but in Bill Clinton's case, the impeachment process was never completed because there wasn't the required ²⁄₃ majority vote.

The latest gossip is that Donald has asked for an extension for his upcoming trial (for the faux University scam). He wants to wait until after he becomes President. This itself defies all logic...We have to wait for Pres elect to complete all his upcoming trials for felonies and one of his party's quips was "lock her up." Oh, and reason Donnie wants to wait until after he is President, is so he can pardon himself. Also read he doesn't want to live in Washington, D.C. I think he is flabbergasted that he is going to be President and wants the office, but someone else to do the work, and that appears to be Pence...then we have Guilliani, Palin, demoted Christie, Newt Gingrich, and some wonder why we are scared.....I know this probably belongs in another thread, but I am having pain in my hands so I am using "easy" button whenever possible...

Yes I'm also scared that the Trump that got himself elected by outrageous showbiz antics, will not change his personality enough to fit the office of POTUS! I sincerely hope he does, he'd better for all our sakes!



Researched Title 3 of the U.S. Code, which covers the Presidency, and here's what is says:

First, there is no law directly requiring the President to live in the White House. Although, it has always been customary.

However, the law authorizes the President to have a staff "in" the White House: 3 USC section 105(b)(1) says that the President may "appoint and fix the pay of employees in the Executive Residence at the White House."
A number of other laws say that the President may appoint White House staff, White House assistants, White House advisors, etc.

Likewise, 3 USC section 102 gives the President the right to use the furniture and other items in the White House. If the President did not at least USE the White House, he would not have the necessary equipment at his disposal to do all his official duties.

Therefore, if the President wants to have a staff and advisors and all the equipment it takes to be a President, the President had better live in the White House, as a practical matter.

So while Trump doesn't have to live in the White House (and Presidents certainly don't have to spend every night there), the law makes it clear that the White House is where the President needs to be to do his job efficiently.

From what I read it's unproven that Pence or the RNC used the words gay conversion therapy. They used the word therapy which could be for anything from adults seeking to change their sexual behavior to parents of minors who are struggling with their sexual identity. Either way I don't feel anyone's sex life is the goverment's business or their job to fund therapy for people seeking it for sexual identity issues.

I don't think Trump is interested in pissing off thousands of gay people by taking away their rights so hopefully he will be firm with that and not just leave it up to Pence.

(11-12-2016, 04:59 PM)sally Wrote: From what I read it's unproven that Pence or the RNC used the words gay conversion therapy. They used the word therapy which could be for anything from adults seeking to change their sexual behavior to parents of minors who are struggling with their sexual identity. Either way I don't feel anyone's sex life is the goverment's business or their job to fund therapy for people seeking it for sexual identity issues.

I don't think Trump is interested in pissing off thousands of gay people by taking away their rights so hopefully he will be firm with that and not just leave it up to Pence.

Sorry my previous link doesn't go directly to the video, sal.

I read the draft and watched the interview. It's definitely proven that the draft of the RNC 2016 platform included 'conversion' therapy specifically.

Here's a link to the excerpt of Chuck Todd asking Reince about the draft platform and questioning him about "conversion" therapy. Reince tells Todd that the issue was amended and taken out of the final platform. http://www.scoopnest.com/user/GavinNewso...8083685376

Here's the full interview, start at 4:50 mark: http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/vi...6652483893

(11-12-2016, 03:44 PM)blueberryhill Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 11:40 AM)Carsman Wrote: Impeachmment does not always translate to "get/taken out of office".

Quickly comes to mind, Bill was impeached, but he remained in office.

Yes,I had to look this up, too as i always thought impeachment meant to "kick out of office." The House recommends/files for the impeachment, and the Senate votes on it, but in Bill Clinton's case, the impeachment process was never completed because there wasn't the required ²⁄₃ majority vote.

The latest gossip is that Donald has asked for an extension for his upcoming trial (for the faux University scam). He wants to wait until after he becomes President. This itself defies all logic...We have to wait for Pres elect to complete all his upcoming trials for felonies and one of his party's quips was "lock her up." Oh, and reason Donnie wants to wait until after he is President, is so he can pardon himself. Also read he doesn't want to live in Washington, D.C. I think he is flabbergasted that he is going to be President and wants the office, but someone else to do the work, and that appears to be Pence...then we have Guilliani, Palin, demoted Christie, Newt Gingrich, and some wonder why we are scared.....I know this probably belongs in another thread, but I am having pain in my hands so I am using "easy" button whenever possible...

That could easily be considered an abuse of power. While there is no law saying he can't pardon himself, it would be very problematic so I think you might be out in left field on that one. Also, if he's convicted for crimes committed previous to his taking office he can't be impeached for those crimes. He has to commit a felony while in office so I don't believe his request to postpone has anything to do with what you think it does. Maybe he just sees himself being a bit busy at the moment?

(11-12-2016, 06:21 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 03:44 PM)blueberryhill Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 11:40 AM)Carsman Wrote: Impeachmment does not always translate to "get/taken out of office".

Quickly comes to mind, Bill was impeached, but he remained in office.

Yes,I had to look this up, too as i always thought impeachment meant to "kick out of office." The House recommends/files for the impeachment, and the Senate votes on it, but in Bill Clinton's case, the impeachment process was never completed because there wasn't the required ²⁄₃ majority vote.

The latest gossip is that Donald has asked for an extension for his upcoming trial (for the faux University scam). He wants to wait until after he becomes President. This itself defies all logic...We have to wait for Pres elect to complete all his upcoming trials for felonies and one of his party's quips was "lock her up." Oh, and reason Donnie wants to wait until after he is President, is so he can pardon himself. Also read he doesn't want to live in Washington, D.C. I think he is flabbergasted that he is going to be President and wants the office, but someone else to do the work, and that appears to be Pence...then we have Guilliani, Palin, demoted Christie, Newt Gingrich, and some wonder why we are scared.....I know this probably belongs in another thread, but I am having pain in my hands so I am using "easy" button whenever possible...

That could easily be considered an abuse of power. While there is no law saying he can't pardon himself, it would be very problematic so I think you might be out in left field on that one. Also, if he's convicted for crimes committed previous to his taking office he can't be impeached for those crimes. He has to commit a felony while in office so I don't believe his request to postpone has anything to do with what you think it does. Maybe he just sees himself being a bit busy at the moment?

OMG, BG, I was kidding......didn't think I had to use the sarcasm thingy.....I said that to my former neighbor in Phoenix today and she thought it was funny.....I will try to add disclaimer when I talk to you, O.K.? Sometimes, this place sucks all my energy......however, I do believe, that Trump thinks he will be untouchable and immune to his upcoming trials and lawsuits if he is the acting President......

(11-12-2016, 07:16 PM)blueberryhill Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 06:21 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 03:44 PM)blueberryhill Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 11:40 AM)Carsman Wrote: Impeachmment does not always translate to "get/taken out of office".

Quickly comes to mind, Bill was impeached, but he remained in office.

Yes,I had to look this up, too as i always thought impeachment meant to "kick out of office." The House recommends/files for the impeachment, and the Senate votes on it, but in Bill Clinton's case, the impeachment process was never completed because there wasn't the required ²⁄₃ majority vote.

The latest gossip is that Donald has asked for an extension for his upcoming trial (for the faux University scam). He wants to wait until after he becomes President. This itself defies all logic...We have to wait for Pres elect to complete all his upcoming trials for felonies and one of his party's quips was "lock her up." Oh, and reason Donnie wants to wait until after he is President, is so he can pardon himself. Also read he doesn't want to live in Washington, D.C. I think he is flabbergasted that he is going to be President and wants the office, but someone else to do the work, and that appears to be Pence...then we have Guilliani, Palin, demoted Christie, Newt Gingrich, and some wonder why we are scared.....I know this probably belongs in another thread, but I am having pain in my hands so I am using "easy" button whenever possible...

That could easily be considered an abuse of power. While there is no law saying he can't pardon himself, it would be very problematic so I think you might be out in left field on that one. Also, if he's convicted for crimes committed previous to his taking office he can't be impeached for those crimes. He has to commit a felony while in office so I don't believe his request to postpone has anything to do with what you think it does. Maybe he just sees himself being a bit busy at the moment?

OMG, BG, I was kidding......didn't think I had to use the sarcasm thingy.....I said that to my former neighbor in Phoenix today and she thought it was funny.....I will try to add disclaimer when I talk to you, O.K.? Sometimes, this place sucks all my energy......however, I do believe, that Trump thinks he will be untouchable and immune to his upcoming trials and lawsuits if he is the acting President......

I'm sure. Most Hilary supporters truly believe he is Satan in the flesh, but your golden gal is blaming Comey now for her loss which is laughable. I might be on board if she lost by a slim margin but it wasn't. I will post a link so HoTD and Dono don't hemorrhage out.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/c...spartandhp

Dono's living in an igloo in the Aleutians with a fine Eskimo woman.

He got out while the gettin' was good.