With each passing day Trump backs a little further away from the things he promised those people.

I'm good with him backing away from some of his promises. Every politician does it. The important part is that he beat the she devil. He will still try and make Obummer care work, my gun rights will stay intact and probably get better over the next 4 years. There will be a attempt to slow the flow of illegals and stop the flow of Muslims until they can get a system in place to weed out the bad ones.

Now before someone says anything, I am not against foreigners coming to America. I just want it done the right way. I don't want them sneaking in under the cover of darkness. I want them walking in standing tall and proud, going through proper channels and working there way to become a citizen.

I am also not totally against Obummer care. There are a few good points in it. I think he should gut it , save the good and start from there.

I , like a few others here have also stated, feel the gun laws now on the books need enforced. Enforce those laws and lets see how things go before we even think about adding new ones. I also think the nation wide permit to carry, just like a drivers license, is a good thing.

That's just a few of my thoughts on his changing stance.

(11-12-2016, 09:44 AM)F.U. Wrote: I'm good with him backing away from some of his promises. Every politician does it. The important part is that he beat the she devil. He will still try and make Obummer care work, my gun rights will stay intact and probably get better over the next 4 years. There will be a attempt to slow the flow of illegals and stop the flow of Muslims until they can get a system in place to weed out the bad ones.

Now before someone says anything, I am not against foreigners coming to America. I just want it done the right way. I don't want them sneaking in under the cover of darkness. I want them walking in standing tall and proud, going through proper channels and working there way to become a citizen.

I am also not totally against Obummer care. There are a few good points in it. I think he should gut it , save the good and start from there.

I , like a few others here have also stated, feel the gun laws now on the books need enforced. Enforce those laws and lets see how things go before we even think about adding new ones. I also think the nation wide permit to carry, just like a drivers license, is a good thing.

That's just a few of my thoughts on his changing stance.

Yeah, I think most folks capable of forming an opinion know that election campaign promises are about as solid as pudding. I didn't vote for him, but I will back him because he is the choice America made and he's all we've got. I'm glad it wasn't Hilary though.

(11-11-2016, 09:52 PM)aussiefriend Wrote: I am surprised he got such a large chunk of the evangelical vote, very surprised. If he supports the gays, then they will run from him, but he is (or the people he pays) not that stupid.

I think you're right on the money.

I was surprised too that Trump was able to secure the evangelical vote, and that he didn't lose it after the Access Hollywood tape was leaked. Duchess wasn't surprised by the latter, but I was. Only the Mormons ditched him in large numbers.

After standing back and looking at the big picture, it shouldn't have been surprising at all. As you know well, some of the high-profile religious leaders are quite profitable and quite political; they wield a lot of power with a huge number of voters.

Trump had formed an alliance with Jerry Falwell Jr. during the primaries, just like outsider celebrity candidate Ronald Reagan had done with Jerry Falwell Sr., who helped Reagan sweep the evangelical vote.

Falwell Jr. certainly expected something in return for the Trump endorsement, just like his father had with Reagan, just like is always the case in politics.

So......the 2016 RNC platform, finalized in July, is heavy on "one man, one woman" marriage and how 'social experiments' which deviate from that traditional model need to be fought against by the party because they are not healthy for children or society. And how the Bible needs to be taught in schools. And how the Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion nationally (with states controlling many conditions) needs to be overturned, etc... It's a more conservative platform than 2012, even though the party had planned to be more inclusive after the Romney loss. (ref, section 6, https://www.gop.com/platform/ )

And, after the Access Hollywood tape was released in October, Falwell Jr. was a prominent voice helping Trump with evangelicals. Falwell led the "that was 10 years ago, it's awful, but we know he's sorry and we forgive him as good Christians" redemption effort, which was successful. The evangelical vote played a large part in Trump's electoral victory. He could not have won had he not swept that large voter block.

There was an interesting piece I read earlier today which reflected a lot of the concerns that I've heard voiced here and elsewhere over the last few days. I think it's too presumptive in some regards, but the gist is accurate and realistic. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mike...21bbc8ff9b

Anyway.............seasoned LGBT activists like the ones I met the other day, and young progressives in other locales (like Tiki's niece), are on alert.

Considering the content of the RNC's official platform, the fact that both the Senate and Congress are Republican majorities, the fact that Mike Pence has now been made the Chairman of Trump's transition/appointing team, the fact that Trump's former campaign manager noted that Trump would delegate much of the decision-making and act more as a COO, the fact that even if Trump doesn't want to run for a second term, Mike Pence might well want to make a run and will want the full evangelical vote..........it's prudent for people committed to gay equality to plan for current LGBT rights to be challenged during Trump's administration.

It would be naive not to be concerned and prepared (though panic is never productive, of course, and I'm not seeing that here).

You're so gay, you probably think this election is about you, don't you, don't you?

(11-12-2016, 11:07 PM)BigMark Wrote: You're so gay, you probably think this election is about you, don't you, don't you?

Listen here, Biggie...





Seriously....if I thought the election was all about me, I'd have considered Trump more seriously. As a straight, white, non-religious, business-owner who's probably past pregnancy age...he didn't threaten to take away any of my current rights. And, he promised me two tax cuts and less regulation!

But, there are some people in my life, and all over the country, who have legitimate cause to be concerned. So, I'm listening and thinking.

Does Jerry Falwell realise that Trump asked his second wife to do porn for the playboy channel? She declined. He tried to pimp out his wife.

This is so beyond politics...the reason so many of us are grieving and are getting condolences from other countries, is because we have allowed corruption to enter the White House....DT and his thugs have destroyed the core values that this country was built on and dismissed the fight for equal rights of all citizens....That doesn't seem to matter to the new President-Defect or his cronies.....i

I have just decided that Donald Trump is very surprised that he got this far and he doesn't even want to be President. I think everything will stay pretty much status quo, but he will be open to suggestions from his moronic staff, i.e. Palin, Giuliani, Gingrich, and Christie part time, and so on. oh yeah, Pence will be running country.

Now, everyone says just get over it...the election is over and DT won fair and square. I am not so sure about that because I don't trust this man...he won't fulfill promises he made to his supporters but they still don't realize they have been played...

We read of minority kids and adults (to include women) being subject to harassment because if future President can say those things, it must be cool.....not to mention the question of did he actually commit some kind of sexual crime? The news media says so......and yet some of you still have the audacity to call Hillary the crook.

I will forever be against haters, bigots, sexists, liars, jerks, blow-hards, braggarts, etc. I will never understand how one half of the population considers this O.K.
I was around when women didn't have some of the rights we have today....When I back to school in the 70's, because I wasn't married and I didn't have a job, Montgomery Wards would not cash my check. I had clerk call bank and verified that I had amount in my account...he was willing then to cash check...I told him to fuck off and walked out without the paint......the check was for $25.00 or less.....

I am not going to stay silent until it is too late....I want DT and his stooges to know how we feel so they don't go revoking this law and that law especially laws that pertain to what women do with their bodies. If Trump wants to punish women for having an abortion, then I think the father, should be willing to be punished also by having his dick chopped off......I know Trump won't go that far, but his buddy, Pence would...he would have to check Bible before approving any law and that is just wrong on so many levels....well, he wouldn't punish the fathers, only the mothers to be.....I voted for Hillary, not because she was a woman, but because she understood the double standard and the fact that women still aren't really equal. She has had to work twice as hard as a male candidate and prove herself over and over...I think her mistakes made her a better person and she certainly had empathy for children and families...she was not pro abortion; she was pro-choice and only mentioned late term abortions if mother's life was at stake.....She is not a con artist like DT and certainly less appealing in her interviews and speeches. Obama and his wife are great orators, Hillary not so much.....but cheaters and con artists can very easily manipulate people...that is their specialty.....Trump has held on to a lot of his money by not paying his personal bills.....gosh, I don't know why he hasn't been sued yet...oh wait, he has 75 lawsuits pending re unpaid bills (this is internet gossip and not confirmed by myself),,,,,,,I hope to God, this man is impeached before he does any real damage, and if he doesn't go to jail, and he lives in New York and Pence runs the country, we can see what happens......I hope Pence is not a drinker......You don't have to agree with one thing I have said, just watch yourself.....o.k.?

P.S. Franklin Graham is always bashing Obama.Hillary and the Democratic party.....because they don't think it is right for gays to have equal rights....some of these Bible thumpers are such hypocrites....Pat Robertson said the Muslims and gays should just kill each other. Wow...they talk a lot about violence, too against groups of people they don't like cuz the Bible tells them these people are sinners.........so much for the Bible thumpers....majority of them voted for DT for that reason. They hate more than they love.....

(11-13-2016, 12:30 AM)aussiefriend Wrote: Does Jerry Falwell realise that Trump asked his second wife to do porn for the playboy channel? She declined. He tried to pimp out his wife.

I don't believe Falwell would give a shit, aussie.

After the Access Hollywood tape was leaked, Falwell was pressed by Erin Burnett about how he could continue to support Trump. Falwell gave the "changed man / he's sorry and forgiven" response. Burnett asked him if he would still support Trump if it was proven that the women who accused Trump of sexual assault were telling the truth. After deflecting, he was pushed again to answer the question and finally said "yes, I believe he's the best candidate".

A large segment of the students at Falwell's religious Liberty University opposed Falwell's position. They protested his Trump endorsement. They could not understand how Falwell could support a man who lied all the time, disrespected women, and falsely claimed to love the Bible more than anybody else -- everything that they're taught is wrong. Falwell was not affected by the protests and reportedly went on to censor the condemnation of Trump's character by an editor of Liberty U's newspaper.

Falwell and other evangelical leaders helped Trump get elected and affected the GOPs 2016 platform, which Falwell greatly praises. The platform calls for banning abortion, banning gay marriage, removing all discrimination protections for gays, banning transgender bathroom choice, etc... The platform also contends that children of single parents and same sex parents are disadvantaged compared to children with a mother and father at home.

Exit polls indicate that Trump got the votes of 4 out of 5 white evangelical voters (Clinton won with non-white evangelicals, but that's a much smaller number). Ref: http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanin...icals.html

So..... religious conservatives are now in the best position they've ever been to see a woman's right to choose, gay rights, and LGBT discrimination protections things of the past, given that the GOP has majority control of the Presidency/Vice Presidency, the Congress, and the Supreme Court. They are ecstatic.

Ah well. Democrats, Independents, true Libertarians, and moderate Republicans will just need to protest and push back hard if Trump and/or Pence push to make the RNC platform vision a reality.

(I've got phone coverage for the night, so I'm gonna put this aside and go out and play for a while. Maker's Mark is on the menu. )

The former Clinton campaign staff, and maybe Hillary herself, are starting to express the view that some of us have that Comey's letter reopening the investigation (and then closing it a couple days before the election) may well have made a huge difference in the outcome. Given early and mail in ballots, if people were on the fence about Hillary's trustworthyness, that letter may have pushed them over the edge.

I don't know if it actually changed the outcome (that seems a bit extreme) but then again, it's an unknown. He never should have put out that first letter 11 days before the election. Period.

I don't blame her or her camp for bitching about it. It was a bigger deal that I don't consider just sour grapes.

The average Christian conservative is full of shit. I'm speaking in general terms only. These are not loving, accepting individuals, they are a bunch of judgemental assholes. I trust Mike Pence even less than I trust Trump. I might have to start mocking his homely, dowdy wife just so I can get some laughs outta this.

There will be crayons, coloring books and hot chocolate in the mail Monday. I am looking forward to it myself. It will be fun. The polls say 49% of the country would benefit from it.

That must be the 49% that make up the lowest common denominator.

(11-13-2016, 10:52 AM)Duchess Wrote: That must be the 49% that make up the lowest common denominator.

It's looking like it will be only 47 - 48% of voters who selected Trump.

I read this morning that ballots mailed in with postmarks of Nov. 6^th, 7^th and 8^th are still being tallied and there are several million west coast and NYC ballots not yet reflected in the popular vote count. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...ow/507455/

It won't affect the electoral votes or take away from Trump's electoral victory, so I hope it doesn't further inflame the moronic fucking idiots among the peaceful protesters.

(11-13-2016, 12:24 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 10:52 AM)Duchess Wrote: That must be the 49% that make up the lowest common denominator.

It's looking like it will be only 47 - 48% of voters who selected Trump.

I read this morning that ballots mailed in with postmarks of Nov. 6^th, 7^th and 8^th are still being tallied and there are several million west coast and NYC ballots not yet reflected in the popular vote count. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...ow/507455/

It won't affect the electoral votes or take away from Trump's electoral victory, so I hope it doesn't further inflame the moronic fucking idiots among the peaceful protesters.

Am I the only one who feels the "Electoral College Vote" is outdated and should be done away with?

IMO only The "popular majority vote" is needed and should be used elect the POTUS. There would be no riots in the streets now if it was.

I think the Electoral College is still valid and valuable. Its there to make sure that a few cities do not get to dictate to the rest of the country how it will be. I don't want new york or LA dictating anything to me in Texas or wherever I am

Also just a note, with the final tallies in it looks like Trump got the popular AND the electoral vote

https://70news.wordpress.com/2016/11/12/...ition-now/

The way I see it is Electoral Vote, (EV) it is unfair when the higher popular vote count is discounted by and being over ridden by the EV!


My single vote in my small state (because a small state, only warranted "7" Electoral votes) so it did not carry as much weight as a single vote of someone in California, a "large state", and because large, state it warranted "55" Electoral votes!
Again IMO, only Majority vote should prevail, deciding the winner.

(Edit: just Looking at the link, I now see Trump had the majority vote as well, so no worries. Still don't like the EV )

(11-13-2016, 01:41 PM)Carsman Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 12:24 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 10:52 AM)Duchess Wrote: That must be the 49% that make up the lowest common denominator.

It's looking like it will be only 47 - 48% of voters who selected Trump.

I read this morning that ballots mailed in with postmarks of Nov. 6^th, 7^th and 8^th are still being tallied and there are several million west coast and NYC ballots not yet reflected in the popular vote count. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...ow/507455/

It won't affect the electoral votes or take away from Trump's electoral victory, so I hope it doesn't further inflame the moronic fucking idiots among the peaceful protesters.

Am I the only one who feels the "Electoral College Vote" is outdated and should be done away with?

IMO only The "popular majority vote" is needed and should be used elect the POTUS. There would be no riots in the streets now if it was.

I totally agree.. what was appropriate for the 18^th century is certainly a bit outdated...there has to be checks and balances, but I think the electoral college has outlived its usefulness.....they keep saying it is so difficult to change the Constitution, but can't they just enact changes like they do when laws change? I don't think our Founding Fathers expected us to follow the letter of the law which was enacted over 300 years ago.

I see both the pros and cons of the electoral college system and don't feel strongly in one side's favor.

It's interesting, to me, that even though several modern democracies have used the U.S. model as a baseline, none of them have chosen to have an electoral body between the government and the people, as our Constitution stipulates. It's popular vote/majority rule everywhere else, as far as I know.

Several U.S. states have laws requiring members of the electoral college to vote according to the popular vote, but most do not. It'll be interesting to see if the proposal for an amendment to the Constitution to do away with the electoral college goes anywhere this time.

Anyway, I understand your reason for wanting to keep the electoral college, Six. I think there is in fact a purveying elitism and celebrity-type attitude within the Democratic party's leadership which doesn't reflect the values of most of the country. It rubs me wrong. The purveying religious judgmentality within the Republican Party leadership also rubs me way wrong and doesn't reflect the values of much of the country either ( I think Trump was smart not to preach it to non-evangelical crowds like traditional Republican candidates often have in the past).

As an Independent, I don't like either elitism or religion having a dominating impact on national elections. But, personally, I think those same kinds of impacts are inevitable and would exist with or without an electoral college.

In my opinion, the Dems need to be developing a message which can be hammered and delivered to the people across the country, in person, directly by the candidate, with or without an electoral college in place. Bernie knew the score on that front. It'll be interesting to see how both the Democratic and Republican parties reconfigure over the next 4 years.

P.s. Six, that popular vote count you linked is some guy's twitter estimate yesterday and is not accurate. Clinton is ahead and the popular vote count is not final yet.