(02-01-2017, 06:41 PM)sally Wrote: Some kids can be rotten little brats without a strong father figure around, however. I've seen it, kids walking all over their mothers with no father around. I'm not saying it's impossible for a single mother to raise well adjusted kids or vice versa, but it does help to have both parents playing a role.

I agree, sometimes it can help to have two parents.

Other times, if one parent (the mother or the father) encourages the children's bad behavior, is abusive, is a negligent drug addict or criminal, or something like that........kids can be much better off being parented only by the one responsible parent.

I don't look down on responsible single parents and don't know anybody who does. While I'm sure there are still some people out there who look down on single mothers, I don't see persecution or a general social stigma concerning single parents of either gender in the U.S. and haven't for many years.

I don't know how they do it.

Back to Trump's ban. It's for 3 months, I hardly think anyone will be telling their grandchildren about "the great muslim ban of 2017." Sure it's inconveniencing people, but I wouldn't call it a crisis. The crisis is what's already going on in those countries, banning them from travel isn't going to make it or break it.

Under Clinton my husband got a letter saying he has 30 days to change his status because his student visa ran up or he will be detained and deported. I still have the letter. And he wasn't even undocumented or from a country of threat, the visa just ran up and he couldn't afford to go to college. And now these people are crying, give me a fucking break.

If your husband and you felt put-out because the government sent Mr. Sally a letter telling him to fill out a piece of paperwork, by the due date, because he failed to proactively update his status as required....... that would have been pitiful. Nobody cries about people here in the U.S. on visas, like your husband, getting those letters everyday under every president.

That's not comparable to what's happening now. What's happening now is that people with valid, legal, updated and fully-vetted visas are being banned from coming or returning to the U.S.A. That's something that drastically impacts a lot of peoples' lives and their plans; plans that were years in the making in some cases.

I'm not gonna criticize anyone for crying if that's happening to them or to people they support, especially if those being banned have been trying to flee a civil war after going through 18 months of vetting and already having their travel plans made. THAT is something to cry over.

But, it is what it is and now it needs to be managed as effectively and efficiently as possible. My hope is that some serious professional analysis of the current entry criteria will be done during the ban and meaningful improvements can be made to the process as a result.

So far, I don't see that happening and instead just keep hearing bullshit excuses or deflection about how the Executive Order was rolled out. A far-reaching ban should have at least been launched in a way that reflected the seriousness of the action, with input from officials with experience and a vested interest. Those who were expected to carry out the action should also have been consulted and given solid guidance (they are the people who would have brought up the exceptions that should have been very obvious and stipulated within the Executive Order from the start).

Since none of that happened, people who had valid refugee visas and were returning to the USA after helping the US government/military in Iraq (and were promised protection) were told they had to get on a plane and go back to where they could have been targeted for providing that help to the U.S.

People who were legal residents with valid green-cards and U.S. residents for years were being told they had to go back from where they came when they returned home to the U.S. to resume their lives with their families. It wasn't until lawyers and a judge got involved that some of them were reviewed and let through, while others were ordered to detention centers until deportation hearings can be heard.

Anyway.......I don't think it's too much to ask that the administration admit the problems, implement quick and intelligent fixes, quit trying to deflect by blaming the media for reporting accurately and calling the action a 'ban' and other stupid shit.

Whether one supports or objects to the ban, it's a big deal, no matter how you try to minimize it and compare it to a relatively minor personal experience. And, we don't know if the ban will be lifted in 90 days. We know it will be "at least 90 days".

A minor personal experience is sending a letter to an 18 year old kid saying that he will be detained and deported to a country that he hasn't been to since he was 5 years old within 30 days? That's after he came here legally and spent thousands of dollars to go to school here and when the money ran out he lived here in poverty.

So remind me of the shit you're talking out of your ass again.

My husband and his brother came here from Switzerland at the age of 13. His mom died from cancer and his dad took what money he had left to bring them here on a school visa. He left them here with a jar of pennies and that's all she wrote. They met some people that let them wash dishes illegally at their restaurant after school and the foreign exchange director of the state college found some people to take them in on their dad's promise to send them money for rent. That never happened though.

It wasn't any easy road for him and his brother getting here, not for a second.

'Relatively minor personal experience', that's what I said, sally.

Your husband was given instruction and advance notice. He was given 30 days to meet the requirement he'd failed to proactively address before any action would be taken.

Your husband was not deported. He did not go back to Hungary and try to return to you with his valid visa in hand, only to be told that all Hungarians were banned from the U.S. and he had to go back to the poverty he'd worked hard to successfully escape. That's what's happening to women, children and men from the 7 banned countries.

Your husband getting a letter telling him to update his visa status in 30 days is not in the same ballpark and it's bullshit to insist that it is. That's not a slam against your husband and what he's been through, I'm sure it was rough. It's just to say that what you initially presented was not a fair comparison or criticism.

The only way to change your status is to pay for school and re-new your visa or get married. So yeah, if my mom didn't sign the paper for me to marry him at the age of 16, he would have been returned back to Hungary in poverty and to a place where he hasn't been since the age of 5.

Have any documented muslims been deported from their homes here under Trump's ban? Or is it just a temporary travel ban to here? So now this temporary travel ban is destroying families and lives?

i think its a swell idea to document muslims.

Exactly sally. Your husband was here on a student visa. He was no longer a student, thus his visa was no longer valid. So, he had to become a student again or meet another honest visa requirement to stay here legally. That's the way it works.

People get deported when their visas expire all the time, when the government can locate them. Obama deported more illegal immigrants, by far, than his predecessors. But, the priority for most administrations, including Obama's, was to actively pursue those with criminal records for deportation first.

Almost half of "illegals" in this country fall into the category your husband did before you got married. They came here legally and didn't update their visas, thus they're classified as "illegals". What Trump proposed doing during his campaign was rounding up all such "illegals" and deporting them immediately; they wouldn't get years of time out of visa status and a warning, like your husband did. But, that's not happening now.

The current immigration Executive Order is for travel/entry into the U.S.; it does not authorize ICE to go looking for people from the 7 banned countries, round them up, and then deport them. If you're here in legal status, you stay here. However, if you're a Syrian national with a valid visa in the U.S. who was planning to travel back to Syria to check on your family, for example, you should cancel plans or risk being detained for hearing upon your return. If you're a Syrian who went through 18 months of vetting and got your valid refugee visa and tickets to the U.S., you will not be allowed to come to the U.S., indefinitely.

Your husband's situation would be comparable if he'd been banned from coming here after being fully vetted and approved for U.S. visa in Hungary or Switzerland, OR if he'd already been here for 5 years, had a valid visa or green-card, traveled to Hungary, and then been denied re-entry just after the Executive Order was passed. The judge intervened and stopped the immediate deportation orders in those such cases and some of those people are being reviewed and let through, others are being detained for hearing.

He didn't get years of time. His visa ran up at 18 and he got the deportation notice at 18. He didn't get his citizenship until we've been married 15 years.

Anyway that's not what I'm arguing with you about. My point was he got here the legal way and just how many people do you want to allow in here by doing nothing? I'm talking about the temporary ban on the refugees, not the people who are already established here, that they need to work out immediately.

However, if you're a Syrian national with a valid visa in the U.S. who was planning to travel back to Syria to check in with your controller, for example, you should cancel plans or risk being detained for hearing upon your return.

(02-02-2017, 12:08 AM)sally Wrote: He didn't get years of time. His visa ran up at 18 and he got the deportation notice at 18. He didn't get his citizenship until we've been married 15 years.

Sorry, I misunderstood your timeline. In any event, he got the letter that everyone gets when their visa expires and had to renew it to stay here legally.

If he'd had no means to do so, he would have been looking over his shoulder or moving around frequently like a lot of other immigrants whose visas expire and want to stay. I'm glad your husband had the means.

(02-02-2017, 12:08 AM)sally Wrote: Anyway that's not what I'm arguing with you about. My point was he got here the legal way and just how many people do you want to allow in here by doing nothing?

This is where I think you're not understanding this Executive Order, sal. I'm not suggesting that anyone be allowed here without doing anything; that's not an issue with this Executive Order or what "people are crying over."

The big issue for most protesters is that people coming from similar or even worse circumstances as your husband (some younger, some older) who have gone through all the questioning, met all the requirements, and been approved for U.S. visas are banned from coming to the U.S. for "at least 90 days". And, Syrians fleeing civil war who've been through absolute hell and who've met all the visa requirements during 18+ months of vetting before finally being approved.....are now banned indefinitely.

I haven't heard anyone asking that the U.S. government reduce the current visa and refugee vetting criteria, nor that the government let people in here for doing nothing. And I've not heard anybody asking that citizenship be handed out freely, it has to be earned (or based on marriage or birth in the U.S.).

And when they finally do get here I bet you'll let them stay in the spare bedroom.

(02-02-2017, 12:14 AM)BigMark Wrote: However, if you're a Syrian national with a valid visa in the U.S. who was planning to travel back to Syria to check in with your controller, for example, you should cancel plans or risk being detained for hearing upon your return.

Are you suggesting that all the Christian and Muslim and Jewish Syrian visa-holders in the U.S. who were planning to leave the country were planning to visit their controllers? What's your point?

(02-02-2017, 12:35 AM)BigMark Wrote: And when they finally do get here I bet you'll let them stay in the spare bedroom.

I know you're a dunce, you don't have to keep proving it, Biggie.

I want the Trump administration to own and correct the initial and unintended problems with the Executive Order so it can be effective and not do unnecessary damage. I'm not supporting it as it stands, but I'm not protesting it at this point.

I've stated that several times in this thread. Pull your head out. And, who I invite into my bedroom is none of your business since you're not among the invitees.

(02-02-2017, 12:42 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:

(02-02-2017, 12:14 AM)BigMark Wrote: However, if you're a Syrian national with a valid visa in the U.S. who was planning to travel back to Syria to check in with your controller, for example, you should cancel plans or risk being detained for hearing upon your return.

Are you suggesting that all the Christian and Muslim and Jewish Syrian visa-holders in the U.S. who were planning to leave the country were planning to visit their controllers? What's your point?

I'm suggesting there is a chance ONE is and I said spare bedroom not your sex chamber boudoir.

(02-02-2017, 12:58 AM)BigMark Wrote: I'm suggesting there is a chance ONE is and I said spare bedroom not your sex chamber boudoir.

I said you don't have to keep proving it, Biggie.

There's a chance that anybody from any country could be going to or coming back from anywhere with criminal intent. That's why I don't object to even stricter vetting of immigrants, if it's done professionally and fairly.

The fact that UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan are not on the list, given that they're the prime countries from which terrorists have come to attack Americans on our soil, sends a message to me. A message that a "safer America" or "safer world" comes after financial and political gain. Trump is no different than some presidents before him in that regard.

And, it's my house. I have sex in whatever room I choose, including the spare bedroom -- which doesn't mean that I foresee having sex with a Syrian refugee in there, you dunce.

I strongly support your right to get pummeled on the kitchen counter, table and or staircase, happy now?

I'm still happy. You're still a dunce. The world order is safe.