Oh look another one. This is ridiculous. Not that I don't feel awful for the victims, but whatever. I guess this is just the way it's going to be now.

(11-05-2017, 04:26 PM)sally Wrote: Oh look another one. This is ridiculous. Not that I don't feel awful for the victims, but whatever. I guess this is just the way it's going to be now.

I think I'm going to buy stock in a "bullet proof" suit of armor company!


Either that, and or don't go to a Baptist church, or ?????

(11-05-2017, 04:26 PM)sally Wrote: Oh look another one. This is ridiculous. Not that I don't feel awful for the victims, but whatever. I guess this is just the way it's going to be now.

I saw it reported there are 25 dead :(

(11-05-2017, 07:19 PM)Duchess Wrote:

(11-05-2017, 04:26 PM)sally Wrote: Oh look another one. This is ridiculous. Not that I don't feel awful for the victims, but whatever. I guess this is just the way it's going to be now.

I saw it reported there are 25 dead :(

And up to "30" wounded!

The youngest one was a 5 year old. Jesus Christ.

Terrible news to come home to, again. There are now 26 confirmed dead, ages 5 through 72. Rest in peace.



The shooter, ^ Devin Kelley, was reportedly from a neighboring town, was 26-years-old, and was court-martialed and dishonorably discharged from the Air Force four years ago.

He reportedly worked as a Bible study teacher in the past, was a gun enthusiast, and was married with a couple of kids.

This time, according to the LE, a good guy with a gun was able to chase the killer out of the church and into his truck. The killer crashed the truck. It's not known if the killer died by his own hand, was shot by the man who chased and followed him, or what.

LE says there are no known connections to the Baptist church in the small community of Sutherland Springs, Texas at this time and motive is unknown.

Ref: https://heavy.com/news/2017/11/devin-kel...ick-kelly/

This is fucking ridiculous and sad.

Send prayers! Send thoughts!

Fucking "Assault Rifles" again, and again, and again, and again, and again, sure does assault!


And the reason for "citizens" need to have mass killing "assault rifles", and or large magazine pistols, again is why?

Every time someone commits a mass murder, people want to discuss the tools used to commit the crime and legislation to combat it. This IMO is where the US falls short. We as a country need to invest and improve the mental health system. This crime wasn't over a disagreement. This man was insane.

Here are some updates I'm hearing on the news this morning:

1. Kelley was court-martialed in 2012 on two counts -- one for assaulting his wife and one for assaulting his child.

2. He spent a year in military prison and was was discharged for bad behavior in 2014. Since it wasn't a 'dishonorable discharge' which is the only type of discharge worse than a discharge for bad behavior, for some reason he was able to pass background checks and buy guns legally (which is stupid to me -- violent/domestic assault convictions in the military should be in the NICS database and as disqualifying as the same convictions outside the military).

3. Texas is open carry. Kelley had applied for a concealed carry permit (which I understand is at the discretion of local law enforcement). His application was denied.

4. He appears to have been divorced in 2012. It seems his current wife is his second wife; not clear if they were together or estranged. It is confirmed now that his in-laws attend the Baptist Church which was attacked and his wife used to teach Bible Study at that same church, but they did not attend the service yesterday.

5. President Trump weighed in from Japan. After offering prayers and condolences, he didn't say it was 'too soon' to talk about gun control this time. Instead, he went further and said directly that this isn't about guns, it's about mental health (though he overturned a law a few months back which banned some people designated as having mental incapacities).

6. It's been confirmed that an armed neighbor of the church confronted Kelley and sent him running out of the church, dropping his rifle in the process. Another local heard the news from his girlfriend and showed up quickly to help in his truck. The good samaritan who'd driven Kelley out of the church hopped in the second good samaritan's truck and they chased Kelley for 11 miles at high speeds until Kelley crashed his vehicle.

7. I've heard Kelley had taken a hostage, but that hasn't been confirmed by LE.

8. The two good samaritans say Kelley was already dead when they approached the crashed vehicle. Still not clear if he shot himself.

These are the good samaritans who chased down Kelley. I'm glad they were able to stop Kelley before he could kill anybody else. Brave men who are being hailed as heroes.


^ Stephen Willeford, 55, confronted and chased Kelley out of the church.


^ Johnnie Langendorff, 27, picked up Willeford and they chased Kelley after he fled (pictured with girlfriend Summer).

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...hurch.html

I'll post more about the individual victims when LE releases the info. We know the victims included the pastor's young teen (pastor and wife were both out of town), the visiting pastor, young children, a family of eight (including a pregnant mother), and seniors -- all of whom were simply practicing their faith in a house of worship on Sunday morning. '(

Seems to me the motive was likely personal, not political. But, the investigation is underway and LE says they have no motive-related info to release at this time.

The sheriff Joe Tackett made some statements this morning...

--The sheriff said that it was the shooter's wife's parents who attended the church and indicated Kelley and his wife Danielle may have had a falling out; his wife Danielle used to work as a teacher at the church

--Records show they were married in April 2014, when Kelley was 23 and his bride was 19

--He was also married at least once before; the couple divorced in 2012, the same year he was court-martialed for domestic violence

--Kelley used to teach Bible studies, but family and friends say he became an atheist at some point and that his social media posts on Sunday showed he was 'in a bad place'

--Kelley was fired from his job as unarmed security guard at an amusement park

More: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...hiped.html

(11-06-2017, 10:18 AM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: Every time someone commits a mass murder, people want to discuss the tools used to commit the crime and legislation to combat it. This IMO is where the US falls short. We as a country need to invest and improve the mental health system. This crime wasn't over a disagreement. This man was insane.

(11-06-2017, 10:19 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Here are some updates I'm hearing on the news this morning:

1. Kelley was court-martialed in 2012 on two counts -- one for assaulting his wife and one for assaulting his child.

2. He spent a year in military prison and was was discharged for bad behavior in 2014. Since it wasn't a 'dishonorable discharge' which is the only type of discharge worse than a discharge for bad behavior, for some reason he was able to pass background checks and buy guns legally (which is stupid to me -- violent/domestic assault convictions in the military should be in the NICS database and as disqualifying as the same convictions outside the military).

3. Texas is open carry. Kelley had applied for a concealed carry permit (which I understand is at the discretion of local law enforcement). His application was denied.

4. He appears to have been divorced in 2012. It seems his current wife is his second wife; not clear if they were together or estranged. It is confirmed now that his in-laws attend the Baptist Church which was attacked and his wife used to teach Bible Study at that same church, but they did not attend the service yesterday.

5. President Trump weighed in from Japan. After offering prayers and condolences, he didn't say it was 'too soon' to talk about gun control this time. Instead, he went further and said directly that this isn't about guns, it's about mental health (though he overturned a law a few months back which banned some people designated as having mental incapacities).

6. It's been confirmed that an armed neighbor of the church confronted Kelley and sent him running out of the church, dropping his rifle in the process. Another local heard the news from his girlfriend and showed up quickly to help in his truck. The good samaritan who'd driven Kelley out of the church hopped in the second good samaritan's truck and they chased Kelley for 11 miles at high speeds until Kelley crashed his vehicle.

7. I've heard Kelley had taken a hostage, but that hasn't been confirmed by LE.

8. The two good samaritans say Kelley was already dead when they approached the crashed vehicle. Still not clear if he shot himself.

The problem is two fold. (As I see it)
The first problem lies with the ease with witch "mentally challenged" and or "hot heads" individuals can purchase guns! Absurd! Major overhaul of vetting process required to rectify problem. (ASAP, like yesterday!)

The second problem is really with guns, as to do with the actual deadly magnitude of "fire power" of the guns those individuals can so easily purchase! Absurd!

Again, the question to ponder to do with guns, for what use/reason do civilians need to have destructive "mass killing power" weapons? Those type weapons are really not meant for "sport" shooting.

Mass killing weapons in the hands of the mentally challenged, and or angered hot heads is the culprit that allows so many innocent victims to be efficiently "mass murdered" so quickly! Absurd!

The church was recording the service for youtube.

It's harder for a beautician to get licensed than it is to get a gun.

It's easier to get a gun than an abortion.

It's easier to get a gun than a marriage license.

Yeah, I agree Cars.

The problem isn't either mental health or guns. It's a combination of mental health issues (which may include the effects of some medications used to treat them) + ease of accessibility to military type and other firearms + some states' unwillingness to supply information to the federal NICS database for background checks + inconsistency between states when it comes to gun laws and enforcement...

I don't disagree with Trump that more focus is needed on mental health care. But, I absolutely disagree with him that the problem has nothing to do with guns. And, I think if he really means what he's saying now (it's the exact opposite of what he said as a private citizen before he ran), he needs to show that through action. So far, he's blocked one law that would have banned some people deemed to be 'unfit' from acquiring guns and he's supported a health care proposal that allowed insurance providers to stop covering mental health treatment.

Also, too many of the recent mass/spree shooters are veterans.

(11-06-2017, 12:12 PM)Duchess Wrote:

It's harder for a beautician to get licensed than it is to get a gun.

It's easier to get a gun than an abortion.

It's easier to get a gun than a marriage license.

You're smarter and more clever than this.

(11-06-2017, 12:06 PM)Carsman Wrote:

(11-06-2017, 10:18 AM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: Every time someone commits a mass murder, people want to discuss the tools used to commit the crime and legislation to combat it. This IMO is where the US falls short. We as a country need to invest and improve the mental health system. This crime wasn't over a disagreement. This man was insane.

(11-06-2017, 10:19 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Here are some updates I'm hearing on the news this morning:

1. Kelley was court-martialed in 2012 on two counts -- one for assaulting his wife and one for assaulting his child.

2. He spent a year in military prison and was was discharged for bad behavior in 2014. Since it wasn't a 'dishonorable discharge' which is the only type of discharge worse than a discharge for bad behavior, for some reason he was able to pass background checks and buy guns legally (which is stupid to me -- violent/domestic assault convictions in the military should be in the NICS database and as disqualifying as the same convictions outside the military).

3. Texas is open carry. Kelley had applied for a concealed carry permit (which I understand is at the discretion of local law enforcement). His application was denied.

4. He appears to have been divorced in 2012. It seems his current wife is his second wife; not clear if they were together or estranged. It is confirmed now that his in-laws attend the Baptist Church which was attacked and his wife used to teach Bible Study at that same church, but they did not attend the service yesterday.

5. President Trump weighed in from Japan. After offering prayers and condolences, he didn't say it was 'too soon' to talk about gun control this time. Instead, he went further and said directly that this isn't about guns, it's about mental health (though he overturned a law a few months back which banned some people designated as having mental incapacities).

6. It's been confirmed that an armed neighbor of the church confronted Kelley and sent him running out of the church, dropping his rifle in the process. Another local heard the news from his girlfriend and showed up quickly to help in his truck. The good samaritan who'd driven Kelley out of the church hopped in the second good samaritan's truck and they chased Kelley for 11 miles at high speeds until Kelley crashed his vehicle.

7. I've heard Kelley had taken a hostage, but that hasn't been confirmed by LE.

8. The two good samaritans say Kelley was already dead when they approached the crashed vehicle. Still not clear if he shot himself.

The problem is two fold. (As I see it)
The first problem lies with the ease with witch "mentally challenged" and or "hot heads" individuals can purchase guns! Absurd! Major overhaul of vetting process required to rectify problem. (ASAP, like yesterday!)

The second problem is really with guns, as to do with the actual deadly magnitude of "fire power" of the guns those individuals can so easily purchase! Absurd!

Again, the question to ponder to do with guns, for what use/reason do civilians need to have destructive "mass killing power" weapons? Those type weapons are really not meant for "sport" shooting.

Mass killing weapons in the hands of the mentally challenged, and or angered hot heads is the culprit that allows so many innocent victims to be efficiently "mass murdered" so quickly! Absurd!

And how long has this country been been trying to legislate firearms? Has anything to date been passed that will stop this kind of tragedy? If there was we wouldn't be having this conversation. Making it about guns is a dead end.

(11-06-2017, 12:29 PM)Jimbone Wrote: You're smarter and more clever than this.

Are you telling me I'm wrong?