I'm definitely a bleeding heart when it comes to health care accessibility and affordability at this point- especially in regards to seniors, vets, children, and people with pre-existing conditions.

And, I'm willing to pay the mandate tax to help keep the subsidies and Medicare/Medicaid funding in place.

Although I'd rather there be a single-payer public health care option (which would mean higher taxes), along with a private option for those who prefer it, that's not on the table now.

(11-28-2017, 01:29 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I'm definitely a bleeding heart...

Lao Tzu wrote in Tao Te Ching: “Knowing others is intelligence; knowing yourself is true wisdom. Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power.”

(11-28-2017, 01:29 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I'm definitely a bleeding heart when it comes to health care accessibility and affordability at this point- especially when it comes to seniors, vets, children, and people with pre-existing conditions.

And, I'm willing to pay the mandate tax to help keep the subsidies and Medicare/Medicaid funding in place.

Although I'd rather there be a single-payer public health care option (which would mean higher taxes), along with a private option for those who prefer it, that's not on the table now.

Before Obamacare health care prices were climbing, seniors had medicare children in poverty stricken families had welfare and healthy kids insurance, vets had vet clinics(if they weren't so fucked up like they were) Nobody was refused health care at emergency rooms. Obama care came along when health insurance was climbing up to 170-180.00 per week for an employee based insurance. A minority did not have health insurance but could still get care through various programs available.
obama care just made it easier and cheaper by transferring the actual cost and real prices back to anyone that was working.
I don't like paying more taxes but I know its inevitable. Taking a gamble and rolling the dice with a tax that became a burden through taxable income and avoiding the reality of the law can today be compared to the current tax laws being voted on now.

I do not and never have thought the "tax" was "good" for very much except raiding the Seniors future social security and taking a chunk of their medicare and medicaid benefits, which if you hadn't noticed is taking a bigger bite out of workers paychecks each year as it gets eaten away by Obamacare recipients.

I'm not understanding that chart. Are the negative numbers individual or across the board? First chart I've seen on the new tax reform. What were the allocations and changes last year from the same budget committee?

I don’t understand it either. That’s why I posted it without saying anything.

I don't know the date of the chart and whether it has been updated to include either the latest House or Senate proposals.

But, what it reflects is how much tax payers in each income group will contribute to the federal deficit over the next 10 years, assuming a tax reform bill is passed in 2018 (effects would start being realized in 2019).

People making $30,000 or less will be putting more money in the government's pocket from the start and increasingly so over time.

By 2027, everyone making less than $75,000 per year will be paying more to the government than they are now and everyone making over $75,000 will continue paying less to the government. There is no deficit by 2027 and a $40 million surplus, which is accomplished by taking much more from the lower income brackets to cover giving the upper ones so many breaks. That's my reading of that chart.

I'm gonna try to watch the CNN tax reform townhall in 35 minutes. Maybe it will clear some things up.

(11-28-2017, 09:29 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I don't know the date of the chart

It was from yesterday. I saw it being discussed but I couldn't participate because I didn't understand it at all. I thought it was incredibly confusing.

Well its the first time I've seen a chart like that. Kinda numb actually. Tax reform is another step closer today and a Thursday vote looks likely.

From the very little that I do actually understand this does not sound like a good thing for average Americans.

Democrats don't like it because the Grand Old party is doing it.

(11-29-2017, 02:10 PM)Maggot Wrote: Democrats don't like it because the Grand Old party is doing it.

I was reading some people who said there is a lot of what Obama wanted in the plan years ago but Republicans had been totally against it. I guess it's different when the idea is then claimed as their own.

(11-29-2017, 02:10 PM)Maggot Wrote: Grand Old party

I neglected to comment on this in my post above -

Maggottyboo. that party is dead. It's history. It's gone forever. I'm so sorry to be the one to tell you.

OK............. the GOP then.

I bet the tax reform bill passes. EOM

I think it will too. I don't think this is a good thing at all.

The bill has passed and this tax reform will become law. Hopefully it helps as many people as possible. Now they need to pass a budget something that hasn't been done in quite a few years.

(12-02-2017, 09:30 AM)Maggot Wrote: The bill has passed and this tax reform will become law. Hopefully it helps as many people as possible. Now they need to pass a budget something that hasn't been done in quite a few years.

The Senate tax reform bill just got the required votes to pass. But, a bill won't make it to President Trump's desk until the House and Senate bills are melded and the consolidated bill is passed by Congress.

There is still disagreement between the two branches when it comes to mortgage-interest deduction, taxing small businesses, and keeping the alternative minimum tax. It looks like the Republicans are very motivated to negotiate though and it will probably happen soon enough.

Trump handled this legislation much better than the Health Care repeal effort, in my opinion. Instead of insulting resistant senators publicly, he reportedly talked to them and worked to address their concerns (and made some concessions for Senators Johnson and Collins).

I don't like a lot of things about this tax reform proposal, but hope it really does end up generating enough economic gains to help most everybody.

Here's the senate bill: https://www.wsj.com/public/resources/doc...012017.pdf

By most accounts this tax bill is a baldfaced stripmining by the wealthy and corporate donors at the expense of the working class and elderly. No wonder Wall Street loves these guys. They're fully paid for.

I read it was a big kiss to the donor class.