(12-12-2009, 09:54 AM)Middle Finger Wrote: Agreed. I guess my point is the case against pitbulls for residential areas seems valid to me and not over the top.

the only problem I see with your position is that erosion of our rights underlies all regulation.

if the government local of federal are allowed to regulate the right to own a certian type of dog then the next thing they will want to regulate what type of weapon we can own, and then they will make us wear seat belts in our own vehicles and then they will try to make us pay them for the right to drive them on PUBLIC roads and make us pay for that right every year, you know once you start letting regulation take place on personal freedoms there will just be no stopping them, those bastards will eventually think that they can tax our pay check 35 or 40% or more force us to buy health insurance ,or pay for the right to own property ,it will just never stop.

I think its best if we don't let them regulate our personal freedoms.::bigsmile::

(12-12-2009, 08:55 AM)Middle Finger Wrote: I am pro-rights and fully support the Second Amendment. I don't blame or demonize objects like OP does for people killing each other and I do not believe in watering down rights because some people abuse or misuse them. That is not vigilantly guarding our rights and freedoms. However, unlike guns, animals can and do get up on their own to go hurt people. The types that are either hard to control or are especially dangerous, like tigers, are not appropriate for residential areas as you know. It is under that umbrella that pitbulls may fall due to their exceptionally powerful bite and difficulty to get off their victim. They can and do escape yards and houses and go hurt and kill kids, for whatever reason. That is my point. I know any dog can do that but like I said, you have to draw a line somewhere ... just like we do right now with so many animals.

I truly hope you had a lack of better wording in your head because that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard you say.
Do you really think animals get up out of the blue and decide to go on a murderous rampage?

I know OP posted this topic to goad me into posting and I've resisted until now because I know the stupidity that would ensue but that takes the cake.

People are irresponsible with anything and everything. Animals don't get up and decide to go on a killing streak. That is a fact even with a prey animal like tigers which see anything made of meat as FOOD. Again, not getting up and deciding on a murderous rampage, but out to hunt.

So Frank, you think terriers should be only on farms? Because EVERY terrier no matter the size has the same temperament as pits. They all have the ability to clamp down. Do you think that regulating them to farm areas will stop them running lose and "get up on their own to go hurt people"? In fact it probably will do the opposite. Dumbasses will see the open space and say, "Hey, there's no one around and all this open space, I think Rex should go out and run freely." Yeah that's a good idea.
More open space, more room to hide illegal activity, less cops to find the problem and stop it quickly.

So you got the criminal element away from you. You got the problem out of the city. Does it stop though? Will it stop the criminals from getting the dogs and bringing them into the city anyway? No it won't.

Not everyone should be allowed to keep these kinds of dogs and I've been working with local legislation to prevent banning and good dog ownership. Banning only takes things away from the good people.

The fact remains that banning does not work. This story took place in the UK and the words in the title of the thread 'yet again' indicate this happens often in the UK where it's banned. Does that tell you the bans work? No it tells me the bans don't.

I pay the higest taxes and insurance premiums in the country because of all the criminal element out there doing as they please. I am the one regulated and taxed and restricted to death on what I can do, keep and house in my own home because the criminals are doing what they want when they want and where they want without regard to the rules and regulations everyone else abides by.

I'm tired of my freedom chipped away because of the misdeeds of those who have no regard for the rules or can't seem to control themselves like normal well behaved people.

Instead of looking away so much our law enforcement agencies should be working on doing their fucking job. For every good cop, judge, legislator out there there are two bad ones undermining their good work.

OP is correct when he said many (too many IMO) buy these dogs as fashion accessories or extensions of their machismo. They want to look tough and in this process managed to ruin a perfectly good breed of dog with poor husbandry and irresponsible ownership. But banning and regulating will only find a replacement and that breed will be maligned the same way.
It started with Dobies, then Rotties, GSD and on and on. Those who like to regulate and ban will be happy only when you are allowed teacup size dogs to keep so the bites are small.

Let your greyhound out to hunt Frank.... let him do his natural thing and see what damage in a short time he can do to a rabbit or deer. Dogs don't need strong jaws to do damage and kill.

(12-12-2009, 10:14 AM)IMaDick Wrote:

(12-12-2009, 09:54 AM)Middle Finger Wrote: Agreed. I guess my point is the case against pitbulls for residential areas seems valid to me and not over the top.

the only problem I see with your position is that erosion of our rights underlies all regulation.

if the government local of federal are allowed to regulate the right to own a certian type of dog then the next thing they will want to regulate what type of weapon we can own, and then they will make us wear seat belts in our own vehicles and then they will try to make us pay them for the right to drive them on PUBLIC roads and make us pay for that right every year, you know once you start letting regulation take place on personal freedoms there will just be no stopping them, those bastards will eventually think that they can tax our pay check 35 or 40% or more force us to buy health insurance ,or pay for the right to own property ,it will just never stop.

I think its best if we don't let them regulate our personal freedoms.::bigsmile::

EXACTLY.

People are forgetting what our country was founded upon.

Really, that's the stupidest thing you've seen Frank say? You haven't been paying attention.

There is nothing stupid about differentiating between a gun and a dog, tiger, or any such animal that can kill a kid with one bite using its exceptionally strong bite. That is all I did before Ant's drama. A gun is far easier to control than a dog, period. We don't need pitbulls, bobcats, wolves, or any creature that can destroy a kid so easily or that takes three adults to pry off of a victim near in our residential areas. Dogs can and do dig and break out of homes and yards. We see them loose around here sometimes. We don't need kids living or being around an animal (pitbull or not) that is so exceptionally good at killing people because you get off having it as a fucking pet, Ant. Go live on a mountain by yourself with it, then.

(12-12-2009, 10:14 AM)IMaDick Wrote:

(12-12-2009, 09:54 AM)Middle Finger Wrote: Agreed. I guess my point is the case against pitbulls for residential areas seems valid to me and not over the top.

the only problem I see with your position is that erosion of our rights underlies all regulation.

if the government local of federal are allowed to regulate the right to own a certian type of dog then the next thing they will want to regulate what type of weapon we can own, and then they will make us wear seat belts in our own vehicles and then they will try to make us pay them for the right to drive them on PUBLIC roads and make us pay for that right every year, you know once you start letting regulation take place on personal freedoms there will just be no stopping them, those bastards will eventually think that they can tax our pay check 35 or 40% or more force us to buy health insurance ,or pay for the right to own property ,it will just never stop.

I think its best if we don't let them regulate our personal freedoms.::bigsmile::

I understand guarding that slippery slope, I really do. I am normally on the other side of the fence in these debates. But, realistically, you have to draw the line somewhere - that is the case with all of our rights. There is zero erosion of our basic freedoms and rights because there are limits like it being illegal to own a tank, or it being illegal for my neighbor to have a wild tiger living next door.

(12-12-2009, 11:45 AM)LuMPyPussy Wrote: Really, that's the stupidest thing you've seen Frank say? You haven't been paying attention.

Hi, Woe Is Me.

Hello, stupid person. :;wave::

(12-12-2009, 01:45 PM)Middle Finger Wrote: There is nothing stupid about differentiating between a gun and a dog, tiger, or any such animal that can kill a kid with one bite using its exceptionally strong bite. That is all I did before Ant's drama. A gun is far easier to control than a dog, period. We don't need pitbulls, bobcats, wolves, or any creature that can destroy a kid so easily or that takes three adults to pry off of a victim near in our residential areas. Dogs can and do dig and break out of homes and yards. We see them loose around here sometimes. We don't need kids living or being around an animal (pitbull or not) that is so exceptionally good at killing people because you get off having it as a fucking pet, Ant. Go live on a mountain by yourself with it, then.

Where have I ever posted or implied I "get off" having these dogs as pets? Both my dogs are rescue dogs because they were abused and abandoned as puppies respectively.

Do you really think ignoring the retarded statement YOU made:

Quote:<snip> animals can and do get up on their own to go hurt people.

the whole basis of my post make your reply any more logical?

Did you not get it where there is PROOF that it's only the good law abiding citizens who suffer for the misdeeds of the law breakers?

And what kind of retard would even imply that I accept any wild animal kept as a pet? I've gone as far as saying lizards and snakes as pets should be under the wild animal category.

Screw you and your twisted logic. I've seen far smaller dogs needing to be pulled off something or someone by more than one adult too many times to count.

Most people do not know the proper procedure to break up a dog fight or a dog on something it shouldn't be on. More people panic and make the situation worse. There's part of the problem too.

NEVER have I said that any animal should be allowed to roam free and I've said time and again that certain breeds are not for everyone. But you go on, use your twisted logic to accept the little bit of oil on that slippery slope because YOU think this one exception is ok because it is YOUR opinion.

Saying dogs can get up on their own and hurt people is not a retarded statement, it's what differentiates a gun from a dangerous animal in terms of public safety. An animal can act on its own behalf and behave, act, do, get out, inflict. A gun can't by itself. I hope you get it now.

By "you" getting off I meant people. I don't care how much people enjoy their fucking pitbulls, bobcats, or whatever. Keep them away from where kids dwell instead of being so self-absorbed.

Yes, I think any animal that has such an incredible bite and is so relatively difficult to get off of a kid qualifies. If you don't like it, kiss my ass.

(12-12-2009, 01:52 PM)LuMPyPussy Wrote: Hello, stupid person. :;wave::

Hi, low-class embodiment of dysfunction. :;wave::

(12-12-2009, 02:16 PM)Middle Finger Wrote:

(12-12-2009, 01:52 PM)LuMPyPussy Wrote: Hello, stupid person. :;wave::

Hi, low-class embodiment of dysfunction. :;wave::

Oh look, stupid person found a thesaurus!

(12-12-2009, 02:18 PM)LuMPyPussy Wrote:

(12-12-2009, 02:16 PM)Middle Finger Wrote:

(12-12-2009, 01:52 PM)LuMPyPussy Wrote: Hello, stupid person. :;wave::

Hi, low-class embodiment of dysfunction. :;wave::

Oh look, stupid person found a thesaurus!

What the fuck do dinosaurs have to do with this!?

(12-12-2009, 02:15 PM)Middle Finger Wrote: Saying dogs can get up on their own and hurt people is not a retarded statement, it's what differentiates a gun from a dangerous animal in terms of public safety. An animal can act on its own behalf and behave, act, do, get out, inflict. A gun can't by itself. I hope you get it now.

By "you" getting off I meant people. I don't care how much people enjoy their fucking pitbulls, bobcats, or whatever. Keep them away from where kids dwell instead of being so self-absorbed.

Agreed.

There have to be limits to freedom, I have no doubt Ant is a responsible pet owner and all her animals are trained to behave, unfortunately there are too many fucking irresponsible douchebags out there who use potentially dangerous animals as status symbols and instruments of intimidation, something has to be done.

Nothing is more important than the lives of innocent children and that includes the right or the freedom to own dangerous animals just because you want too.

Someone who lives & works here asked if he could have a puppy, I said, of course & then he told us that it was a pitbull, I reversed my decision...I felt bad about doing so but, their unsavory reputation turned me off, even tho I know better, I just wasn't willing to take the chance...We actually have wolves on our road, she {the owner} has a special permit to have them & they are kept in a compound that is double fenced, I rarely think about them being so close until I hear them howling but, I am never fearful.

Frank, your idiotic comment has it worded in such a way you actually believe a dog is going to just get up one day and say, "Hey, I think I want to go maul some kid today and fuck it all."

No, they do not have that capacity to think on those terms and if you cannot see your comment worded as such, then you are in belief that animals can think on that level and are more ignorant than I thought.

Pit bulls think and act like any other breed. Any dog that isn't well socialized, trained or cared for has the same mental capacity to do the same as a pit. There are at least a dozen different breeds besides a pit that has the jaw strength and tenacity as a pit bull. It's the ignorant and sensational press the dogs have gotten that makes people think wrongly of them. It's also the bad owners who did the damage to the breed all in all.

But for anyone to think any animal has the capacity to think in such a measure as to DECIDE to get up and kill for the sake of it is just sensational.

Duchess, fact: wolves are more trustworthy as a pet than a wolf/dog hybrid. NO wild animal should be kept as a pet.

(12-12-2009, 05:05 PM)The Antagonist Wrote: Duchess, fact: wolves are more trustworthy as a pet than a wolf/dog hybrid. NO wild animal should be kept as a pet.

I agree, no wild animals as pets...If I implied that these wolves were kept as pets, I didn't intend to because they are not...I know she does some kind of "educational" thing over there & that her enclosure had to meet specific requirements...I've never been over there to check it out but, Cowboy has, he had concerns when they first came into our 'hood.

(12-12-2009, 05:05 PM)The Antagonist Wrote: Frank, your idiotic comment has it worded in such a way you actually believe a dog is going to just get up one day and say, "Hey, I think I want to go maul some kid today and fuck it all."

Nope, I didn't say or indicate that.

(12-12-2009, 06:24 PM)Middle Finger Wrote:

(12-12-2009, 05:05 PM)The Antagonist Wrote: Frank, your idiotic comment has it worded in such a way you actually believe a dog is going to just get up one day and say, "Hey, I think I want to go maul some kid today and fuck it all."

Nope, I didn't say or indicate that.

Hello again, stupid person! :;wave::

Look familiar?

Quote:However, unlike guns, animals can and do get up on their own to go hurt people.

Right ... a living thing being able to do things on their own and go hurt someone is different than an inanimate object (gun) that can't. That difference is not the same as suggesting an animal will wake up one day and say to itself "Hey, I think I want to go maul some kid today and fuck it all."

Unless, of course, you want to be stupid.