I get it.  Actually I've acknowledged it many times . . . you despise Israel and her people.

Palestine has a democratically elected government.  They are not ruled by the Israeli government.

Hamas represents the Palestinian people.  Billions of global dollars have poured into their coffers over decades . . . with no avail or purpose, in bettering the peoples' lives who elected them into power.  Allah is shamed.

As to Nat Turner . . . again . . . a completely useless (albeit a teary-eyed and emotional) analogy.

Face it . . . the real conflict isn't against the Israelis' claiming ownership to land.

It's all about the red cows returning to the Holy Land.  

That's according to Hamas spokesman, Abu Ubaida, in a speech marking the 100^th day, of the war in Gaza.

But what would he know . . . he's just a Hamas governmental spokesman.

A "democratically elected government" in a concentration camp?

"Palestine" has been blockaded since 2006. No trade. No port. No airstrip. Movement severely restricted. No territorial integrity.

Have you ever seen a map of the Palestinian territories? They look like a piece of swiss cheese, with more holes than cheese.

Under Article 2 of the UN Charter, forcible imposition of border changes are acts of aggression, as are many other actions Israel has taken against the Palestinians, such as those described by Israel as "mowing the lawn".

If this is a joke to you, it's one I don't find funny.

(04-02-2024, 11:09 AM)rothschild Wrote: If Bibi goes it won't get better, and could get worse.

Israel is a pariah state in my book.

The more I hear & read about The World Central Kitchen workers being killed the madder I get! I don't believe it's just an awful accident. Their route was coordinated with Israel! 

(04-03-2024, 03:32 PM)Duchess Wrote:

(04-02-2024, 11:09 AM)rothschild Wrote: If Bibi goes it won't get better, and could get worse.

Israel is a pariah state in my book.

The more I hear & read about The World Central Kitchen workers being killed the madder I get! I don't believe it's just an awful accident. Their route was coordinated with Israel! 

I think there's zero probability that it was an accident. Gaza is a kill zone. Anyone that goes there is at serious risk of dying.

(04-02-2024, 10:14 PM)rothschild Wrote: If this is a joke to you, it's one I don't find funny.

A joke to me?  You're kidding . . . right?

For the man who is so emotionally and passionately invested in this conflict, you really have no idea of the "triggers" that prompted the Oct. 7 massacre of over 1,000 Israeli citizens.  All you have is your visceral loathe and hatred for Israel and her citizens.

My goodness, RC . . . you ignore statements by a Hamas military spokesman . . . as a joke  . . . that somehow, I am perpetuating.

American legacy media touched on this over a month ago.  Where were you?

There are what . . . about 2 billion Muslims, worldwide?

Surely, to rally them to Hamas' cause, you need something more than your Swiss cheese territory, colonialism and concentration camp analogies.

Geez, man . . .the name Hamas gave to their Oct. 7 attack should have been a clue, to you.

The only thing funny to me is your inability to look beyond your loathe of Israel . . . and transgender groups siding with Hamas.

Now that is funny.

(04-03-2024, 10:40 PM)rothschild Wrote: Gaza is a kill zone. Anyone that goes there is at serious risk of dying.

Many aide workers are now leaving and I can't help but feel THAT was Bibi's agenda. 

What is the purpose of Hamas? Do they fight for something in particular or is chaos & barbarianism all they aspire to?

(04-04-2024, 11:21 AM)Duchess Wrote:

(04-03-2024, 10:40 PM)rothschild Wrote: Gaza is a kill zone. Anyone that goes there is at serious risk of dying.

Many aide workers are now leaving and I can't help but feel THAT was Bibi's agenda. 

What is the purpose of Hamas? Do they fight for something in particular or is chaos & barbarianism all they aspire to?

What is the purpose of any resistance group? It's a good question. In the case of the Nat Turner rebellion, 60 whites were randomly murdered. Do I condemn those responsible? I do not. African slaves were dehumanized and treated horribly over the course of decades. The Palestinians are no different by the objective criteria I apply, being the reports of international human rights groups -- and it should be noted that unlike our media outlets, the Israeli press reports on the atrocities and barbaric treatment. I read a Haaretz article some years ago reporting on IDF officers going to the Warsaw Ghetto to "study" how the Germans had established and run it, claiming it would "save lives". No mention of it in the American press. If Hamas had done the same it would have gotten front page coverage for months.

When Israel "mows the lawn", these operation have names, such as Cast Lead -- examples being carpet bombing, the use of cluster bombs, and white phosphorous, which causes horrific burns. When Hamas does the same and "mows the lawn" of Israel, giving them a taste a taste of their own medicine, the outcry is deafening. There is no consistent standard applied to all. If there was this conflict would have been resolved a very long time ago.

The killing of 1200 Israelis is an atrocity, but as with the case of the Nat Turner rebellion, I'm not going to condemn those responsible.

(04-04-2024, 12:08 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(04-04-2024, 11:21 AM)Duchess Wrote:

(04-03-2024, 10:40 PM)rothschild Wrote: Gaza is a kill zone. Anyone that goes there is at serious risk of dying.

Many aide workers are now leaving and I can't help but feel THAT was Bibi's agenda. 

What is the purpose of Hamas? Do they fight for something in particular or is chaos & barbarianism all they aspire to?

What is the purpose of any resistance group? It's a good question. In the case of the Nat Turner rebellion, 60 whites were randomly murdered. Do I condemn those responsible? I do not. African slaves were dehumanized and treated horribly over the course of decades. The Palestinians are no different by the objective criteria I apply, being the reports of international human rights groups -- and it should be noted that unlike our media outlets, the Israeli press reports on the atrocities and barbaric treatment. I read a Haaretz article some years ago reporting on IDF officers going to the Warsaw Ghetto to "study" how the Germans had established and run it, claiming it would "save lives". No mention of it in the American press. If Hamas had done the same it would have gotten front page coverage for months.

When Israel "mows the lawn", these operation have names, such as Cast Lead -- examples being carpet bombing, the use of cluster bombs, and white phosphorous, which causes horrific burns. When Hamas does the same and "mows the lawn" of Israel, giving them a taste a taste of their own medicine, the outcry is deafening. There is no consistent standard applied to all. If there was this conflict would have been resolved a very long time ago.

The killing of 1200 Israelis is an atrocity, but as with the case of the Nat Turner rebellion, I'm not going to condemn those responsible.

(04-04-2024, 11:21 AM)Duchess Wrote:

(04-03-2024, 10:40 PM)rothschild Wrote: Gaza is a kill zone. Anyone that goes there is at serious risk of dying.

What is the purpose of Hamas? Do they fight for something in particular or is chaos & barbarianism all they aspire to?

This is Hamas' updated charter, which speaks for itself. The original from 1988 is decidedly anti-Jewish. It's based on Islamic jihadism, whereas the PLO was secular.

I personally don't care about their charter. It's a resistance movement with a flawed strategy, but whatever anyone has to say about it, it's forced the world to take notice. The cost is terrible, but the conditions in Gaza have been worsening for a long time, with no prospect for enforcement of applicable international law. That has now changed. The comparison to the Nat Turner rebellion is exact in this respect. My hope is that the final outcome is also comparable.

https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/hamas-2017.pdf

(04-04-2024, 08:00 PM)rothschild Wrote: It's a resistance movement with a flawed strategy

As long as they continue to terrorize & murder they will not be viewed as credible. They are viewed as terrorists and I don't disagree. That's how I view Israel as well.

Biden needs to get his act together on this bullshit. I'm not saying this will push Biden voters into trump's arms, that will never happen, but it could force voters to sit home. Some Americans feel very strongly about this.

(04-05-2024, 05:29 AM)Duchess Wrote:

(04-04-2024, 08:00 PM)rothschild Wrote: It's a resistance movement with a flawed strategy

As long as they continue to terrorize & murder they will not be viewed as credible. They are viewed as terrorists and I don't disagree. That's how I view Israel as well.

Biden needs to get his act together on this bullshit. I'm not saying this will push Biden voters into trump's arms, that will never happen, but it could force voters to sit home. Some Americans feel very strongly about this.

As someone having a Jewish grandfather, I technically have the right of return. Do I in any way feel threatened or offended by the Hamas attack on 10/7? No, because Israel has been mass murdering Palestinians for decades. I see Hamas as tangential to the legitimacy of the state of Israel, at best.

For the record, I don't think you are "wrong" in what you've said. We have different perspectives, and a different understanding of the history of this conflict.

In case you're interested, this is the UN Special Rapporteur reporting on her investigation re genocide.

(04-05-2024, 11:09 AM)rothschild Wrote:
For the record, I don't think you are "wrong" 

You've come a long way, kid.

(04-05-2024, 12:03 PM)Duchess Wrote:

(04-05-2024, 11:09 AM)rothschild Wrote:
For the record, I don't think you are "wrong" 

You've come a long way, kid.

I still think you're wrong most of the time.

*snort laugh* Curmudgeon through & through.

I heard that it takes about 2 weeks for Israel to inspect every single aid truck.

Yes, and if one single thing is found, sleeping bags, for example, they confiscate the whole semi.

I saw it said today that our opinions have successfully emboldened terrorists.

(04-13-2024, 04:53 PM)Duchess Wrote: I saw it said today that our opinions have successfully emboldened terrorists.

I'm going to make a donation to one of the groups trying to help the Palestinians. I'll probably end up on the terrorist watch list and/or the no-fly list.

(04-13-2024, 10:58 AM)Duchess Wrote:

A guy I know on the dark web or was the dork web(?) swears that all that stuff can be used to build bombs.