(08-04-2012, 03:54 PM)tlynne Wrote: Wasnt it discussed before that she provided a false alibi for williams? She was one of his 'girlfriends' right? I could be wrong. So much has been discussed with this case maybe someone was just speculating at some point

(08-04-2012, 05:58 PM)Duchess Wrote:

I wish we could get a thug in here so I could ask some questions.

I'm interested in what these people think about Cam walkin' & Sam going away for life. Is Sam mad at Cam? Is Cameo scared for his life? Do people on the street view Cam as a murderer or as an innocent? I have questions, damnit.

(08-05-2012, 03:22 AM)Older Than Dirt Wrote: I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING HER ALL EVENING. At least 6 posts in a couple hours.. With all the threats, if something happens, she could be suspect.

(08-04-2012, 05:49 PM)NightOwl Wrote:

(08-04-2012, 10:38 AM)Green Ribbon Wrote: 1. How come two not so bright (and one even classed as a retard!) perps managed not to leave any dna on either bodies in what was a nasty murder?

Well this is a good question, if your refer back to the phone calls tape recorded in Jail with Sam Williams and Steven Pettaway, my take on these two is they've been roughing up people possibly at other locations in Toledo, it was supposed to be Steven that night but, he was in jail so Cam had to go as substitute. It sounds to me like they are a couple of thugs that were rented out, some bastard set this thing up and hired those two to thump Johnny and Lisa around and hold them down by force. The jail phone calls fried Williams and Yinglings testimony.

I believe they all wore gloves in the beginning the trouble begins with duct tape, I would assume it is more difficult to handle duct tape with gloves on. What we don't know is which side of the duct tape was the DNA found, if it was found on the sticky side then they used their fingers and wiped the outside of the duct tape off, we also don't know if it's skin cells, saliva or hair. No DNA was on the bags, Some female DNA found inside Johnny's pants pockets same as on the Duct Tape. My take on all this is Williams and Pettaway the henchmen put the bags over their heads whilst the others taped. We don't know for sure if both Cam and Sam took a smoke break together, what if it was just Cam and he had never done a job like this before according to brother Steven, and it was goofy Cameo that slipped up and left the cig., by mistake & Sam didn't know it. IMO

(08-05-2012, 02:17 AM)Aberlin Wrote:

(08-04-2012, 10:38 AM)Green Ribbon Wrote: 1. How come two not so bright (and one even classed as a retard!) perps managed not to leave any dna on either bodies in what was a nasty murder?

Could be a million reasons why and we won't know for sure until someones comes forward with the entire story, mentioning every detail. Obvious statement I know, but worth saying anyway

Even though we're not dealing with world class assassins here, I feel confident in saying all who were involved knew about finger prints, hair fibers, etc.

Before getting into Cam and Sam lets talk about the Unknown Female.

Nightowl made a great point about duct tape being difficult to open with gloves on. However, the DNA on the tape is the same Unknown Female DNA inside Johnny's pockets. So there's a clue.

In her case, here's some possible scenarios:
1. She took off her gloves twice (once for the tape, once for going through Johnny's pocket...both tasks difficult to do with gloves on).
2. She took her gloves off once for taping Johnny and went through his pocket immediately afterwards
3. She was wearing either surgical or thin/cheap gloves that got ripped in a small place during the struggle or while opening the duct tape
4. She never had gloves on to begin with (signifying either a lack of planning or implying she was not supposed to be a "hands on enforcer/participant"...I'll explain later, but I don't put much stock into this theory)
5. The DNA might not be from skin but rather saliva from biting off the tape (this doesn't explain the DNA in Johnny's pocket)
6. DNA on the tape could be from hair (this also doesn't explain the DNA in Johnny's pocket)

Point 5 is my favorite theory personally because if a second person had to come restrain Johnny, its safe to assume he was putting up an intense fight. Not too hard to assume she had one arm wrapped around Johnny's legs and the other spooling the tape around his feet. Perhaps with all the squirming it seemed easier to continue to hold him down and use her teeth break loose the duct tape. In addition, sometimes duct tape is a pain in the ass to rip, so when you're in a hurry you use your teeth (ask anyone how works with duct tape regularly).

Of course this theory isn't without its failings because I don't think this girl started licking the inside of Johnny's pocket.

The problem with the term "DNA" is that it can encompass more than one thing (skin, hair, saliva, etc) and we're lacking full disclosure about these samples.

The reason I put so much emphasis on this girl is because I believe this was a planned robbery effort. However, if you agree this was a planned effort then you also have to acknowledge collaboration. With collaboration, there's a certain level of consistency; if one wears gloves, all will, if one covers their face, all will, etc. I seriously doubt someone would come along seeing others with gloves thinking they're safe touching things with out them.

With collaboration there's varying levels of participation (which is key). I doubt they all went in there just winging it and seeing who grabs who first. Sure, I think there was some on-the-spot improvising but all in all when you bring that many people with you, each has a specific reason for being there.

Keeping those scenarios in mind remember that:
1. DNA was found on the cig butt but not fingerprints (Sam and Cam were wearing gloves...or at least when they went outside)
2. Sam and Cam both have very short hair (less likely to find hair fibers)
3. It was winter (people wear long sleeves and the likes that aids in covering skin/hair)

If Sam and Cam were masked, that can further explain the lack of hair-based DNA. As for the girl, longer hair has more probability of falling out even with a mask on.

If the DNA on the tape was saliva, then there is a pattern here; criminals aware of fingerprint evidence, composite sketches (maybe), and hair, but not thinking of saliva. If this is true, why bother taking the cig butt with you? Why not just bite off the tape?

There might not be any other DNA samples of Sam and Cam inside the house simply because they were just reinforcements; there to step in if someone got loose, etc.

However, I believe they all had some sort of hands on effort and the lack of evidence against them is because they were careful in every regard but overlooked DNA transfers from saliva. As far as the girl, maybe she was in a panicked state and stopped thinking because it all got out of hand so fast.

Lastly, you could be looking at total luck here. People have shot themselves and somehow left no fingerprints on the gun they used. Just mentioning that to show stranger things have happened.

(08-05-2012, 10:30 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: this is more of the email from cameo's friend that i posted on previous page:

(08-05-2012, 10:35 AM)Duchess Wrote:

(08-05-2012, 10:30 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: this is more of the email from cameo's friend that i posted on previous page:

To whomever is sharing this with LC, thank you VERY much!

(08-05-2012, 10:24 AM)Green Ribbon Wrote: [quote='Aberlin' pid='275203' dateline='1344147444']
[quote='Green Ribbon' pid='275103' dateline='1344091112']
The only slight difference I have.....and it is a big IF....is the point you made about them covering their faces....but, this possibility relies on taking what Tiffany Williams stated that Johnny said on the phone was true.....and let's face it...It's a big if!

If what TW stated what JC said to her on the phone is to be believed, I would have thought that he would have freaked out more on the phone if they had turned up masked up, if it had been me in his position, if masked guys had turned up at my house I'd have been freaking out to my friend on the phone and telling them to ring the cops.

But, given that he might have had a stash of drugs in Lisa's house, I can accept that he may not have wanted to get the cops involved, or he was just too shocked to say anything to Tiff or of course she lied about what was said.

(08-06-2012, 12:11 AM)Aberlin Wrote: Excellent response!! I'm a little doubtful about them wearing masks myself, but at the same time wearing masks does reduce the risk of direct retaliation. Unless they knew Johnny would never be able to "go to war with them."

(08-06-2012, 12:11 AM)Aberlin Wrote: I think you're spot on about Johnny's response too. Seeing someone masked you know there's some serious shit about to go down. On the other hand, strangers in the house might make you second guess your instincts or give you the false belief you can talk your way out of the situation. People tend to believe they can talk their way out of any trouble.

Of course you have a solid point on the validity of Tiffany's testimony on what Johnny said. I'm not doubting her testimony, but rather acknowledging we are all basing these theories on hearsay.

I've gone back and forth on my views of Tiffany some many times. Don't really want to go there for a while.

(08-06-2012, 12:11 AM)Aberlin Wrote: However, here's a thought I just had. IF...again if, Tiffany was the one who set this up, it would have been discussed that she was going to call Johnny's phone numerous times in an attempt to eliminate herself as a suspect.

The issue with that theory is the reaction of the perps. They got so pissed from the constant calls they threw the phone across the room. It would have changed nothing in the "alibi" if the perps quickly picked up the phone and said "alright enough...stop calling!!" Tiffany could have simply said Johnny was screaming for help that final call and the phone went dead. Then she drove out there. Of course as well all know she never said that. So the reaction of the perps makes me doubt she was arranging the crime.

(08-05-2012, 05:18 PM)NightOwl Wrote: I would like to ask the friend of Cameo Pettaway's that emailed Lady Cop
a couple of questions.

What was Cameo's alibi for the evening of the murders?

Is he still friends with Michelle Wainwright?

Thanks to Rule 29 he is free!

The Domestic Violence Charges are far from nonsense, he's guilty!

another cig. butt murder case. i thought it was interesting. it's a perfect medium for DNA.


--------------------------------------------

The Austin Statesman

Texas

A discarded cigarette at the scene of a fatal July shooting in North Austin led detectives to a Hays County man now charged with murder.

Thomas Atkinson, 35, from Niederwald, was arrested Friday after police traced DNA evidence on a cigarette butt left at the scene of the homicide, an arrest affidavit filed Monday said.

Alejandro "Alex" Hernandez Jr., 42, was found dead shortly before 6 a.m. July 9 in a pickup truck in the 200 block of Lola Lane, near Interstate 35 and U.S. 183. Police collected items from the scene, including the discarded cigarette, and analyzed them for DNA evidence. Hernandez's wife told officers he did not smoke.

During the investigation, various witnesses told detectives that Hernandez had picked up a prostitute called Sunshine at the Austin Suites Hotel in North Austin the night before he was shot, court documents said.

Witnesses told investigators that in the morning, Hernandez would not let Sunshine out of the truck, which was parked on Lola Lane, the affidavit said. Atkinson, Sunshine's boyfriend, was nearby. Court documents said that witnesses told investigators Atkinson then approached the vehicle and shot Hernandez.

According to a search warrant issued last month, police said the cigarette butt was likely left behind during the confrontation.

"The cigarette butt found on the front passenger seat of the decedent's truck was most likely dropped by the suspect during the confrontation that resulted in the victim's death," the documents said.

Atkinson told police he knew Sunshine and had a confrontation with a Hispanic man who would not let her out of his vehicle the night of the shooting, the affidavit said.

He told police that he hit the man's windshield and left. When pressed about his involvement in the shooting, Atkinson asked for an attorney, the affidavit said.



Thomas Atkinson is charged with the murder of Alejandro Hernandez Jr.



dead guy. Alejandro Hernandez Jr. was found shot in his pickup truck July 9.

(08-07-2012, 02:42 PM)Older Than Dirt Wrote: The State of Ohio would respectively request an appropriate sentence be imposed upon the defendant in accordance with his deeds.

(08-08-2012, 12:30 AM)allieayy Wrote: i tried to look back through the thread and couldn't find it, so forgive me, but can anyone tell me who sarah rupert is? i know someone by that name...