MURDERED: 8 yr old Leila Fowler - 12 yr old brother charged

[BlueTiki]

Two words:

Burke Ramsey.

[Teacher]

Two words:

Burke Ramsey.

Unfortunately, same thought occurred to me.

[HairOfTheDog]

I wouldn't be surprised if some in the family knew and tried to help cover it up. The parents have seemingly been in a hurry to put this behind them since it happened.

I understand if you don't want to answer this question, much less think about it. But, I've been wondering what I would do if this were my nephew that had done this to my niece. Hurts just to contemplate it.

Would you turn your son over to the police right away if you suspected or knew, or do you think you'd try to find a way to stall or get him out of it altogether, somehow?

If there were other children in the house, I'd pony my nephew up right away if he killed his sister and do my best to support him and get him the best possible legal and pysch help (I'd be going crazy though). If there were no other children in the house, I think I'd do the same, but I can't say that I wouldn't try to stall with a 100% certainty.

Two words:

Burke Ramsey.

Unfortunately, same thought occurred to me.

I've always pondered his possible involvement in his sister's case. Never had a definitive opinion there though.

[username]

I'd turn my son over in a heart beat especially if I believed he'd be treated as a juvenile. I hope I'd still do it if he were 17 but that would be really painful.

[HairOfTheDog]

I'd turn my son over in a heart beat especially if I believed he'd be treated as a juvenile. I hope I'd still do it if he were 17 but that would be really painful.

Yeah, age makes a huge difference in determining how he's handled/treated and the severity of his punishment.

If this case goes to trial, the 12 year old will be tried as a juvenile. I don't think California allows consideration of trying a minor as an adult unless he/she is 14 or older.

He'll probably be in a juvenile facility til he's 18 and transferred to an adult prison for the remainder of his sentence, if he's convicted/pleads guilty.

What scares me is, IIRC, he can only be incarcerated until he's 25 under California juvenile sentencing laws. I'll refresh my memory and see if that's changed recently, but don't think it has. What if he's simply a sociopath with violent tendencies that can't be helped?

If he has a diagnosed mental illness, perhaps he'll be sentenced to a psych penal facility and he can be incarcerated longer, if needed?

If he's guilty and he can be helped and rehabilitated wherever he ends up being incarcerated, great. I'd still be scared shitless to let him anywhere near my loved ones, no matter why he did it. His crime was a brutal one against a child in his own family and he acted/lied to protect himself from repercussions. Dangerous mind.

IDK. I wish we had more details as to how and why this went down, his mental state, family history, etc. I think we'll hear a little more, but maybe not too much more if this is all handled in juvenile court with sealed records.

[HairOfTheDog]

^ I must have been recalling non-homicide sentencing.

A juvenile offender can only be held by the Youth Department until 25 years old, but sentencing can be up to life without parole. I think that sentencing might only apply to juveniles tried as adults though.

This from a story about the arrest, released today:
California law only allows children as young as 14 to be tried as an adult. If the 12-year-old is convicted, he could expect to be released by the time he is 25.

Read more: http://fox40.com/2013/05/11/arrest-made-...z2T7r5q1LI

Anyway, there is a new law in California pertaining to juveniles.

Senate Bill 9 was passed in September 2012 and became effective in January 2013.

This bill authorizes an offender who was: under 18 years of age at the commitment of the offense, sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole, and having served 15 years of that sentence, to submit a petition to the sentencing court for recall and resentencing provided they meet all eligibility criteria and considerations. The bill would not allow a prisoner to petition, who tortured his or her victim or whose victim was a public safety official. Victims and/or victim family members shall retain the rights to participate in any resentencing hearing.

Ref:
http://www.cdcr.ca.gov/victim_services/sentencing.html

Interested to see how this all plays out.

[HairOfTheDog]

Sentence for 12 year old, IF he is found guilty.

Did a little more research.

-Because he's under 14 year old, there's no possibility to try Leila's bother as an adult in California.
-Assuming the 12 year old pleads guilty or is convicted of killing Leila, he can be held by the Division of Juvenile Justice (DJJ) until he's 25. Typically, minors sentenced in juvenile court in California are placed in facilities close to their homes.
-I don't think (couldn't find solid confirmation) that a minor convicted in California juvenile court can be transferred to adult prison upon turning 18 years old, though they can be transferred to county jail.
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I'm conflicted about this. IF Leila's brother is found guilty, the max he could serve in California is 13 years - til he reaches 25 years old. Here's the type of rehabilitation, mental/behavioral treatment and vocational services provided by DJJ:
http://www.cdcr.ca.gov/Juvenile_Justice/

IDK, I think someone who stabs a younger child multiple times and causes death (then tries to cover it up) shouldn't be released into society at age 25. But, I don't like the idea of treating a 12 year old like an adult and giving up on any possibility of rehabilitation either.

If I had to choose, I'd rather see him tried as an adult and sentenced to life without parole, because under the new law (SB9) he could petition/appeal to get out after 25 years if he meets the conditions. Since he's under 14, however, this isn't an option.

If he's guilty, he will quite likely be freed at age 25. I find that very disturbing.

Interested in hearing other opinions.

[Duchess]

CNN is reporting that 5 days before the murder the boy was suspended for bringing a knife to school.

[Maggot]

Its really too bad nobody can cut a head off and put a better one on yet.

[Midwest Spy]

Sentence for 12 year old, IF he is found guilty.

Did a little more research.

-Because he's under 14 year old, there's no possibility to try Leila's bother as an adult in California.
-Assuming the 12 year old pleads guilty or is convicted of killing Leila, he can be held by the Division of Juvenile Justice (DJJ) until he's 25. Typically, minors sentenced in juvenile court in California are placed in facilities close to their homes.


Interested in hearing other opinions.

I don't know how a person like this can be rehabilitated.

If he's guilty, he cannot be put back into society at age 25 and be expected to be a normal productive citizen.

He'll be a danger to society and anyone who he encounters will be at risk.

He's damaged goods, and it's scary that he will be back in circulation in 13 years.

[BlueTiki]

CNN is reporting that 5 days before the murder the boy was suspended for bringing a knife to school.

Thank goodness it wasn't a gun.

We would have never heard the end of it.

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't know how a person like this can be rehabilitated.

If he's guilty, he cannot be put back into society at age 25 and be expected to be a normal productive citizen.

He'll be a danger to society and anyone who he encounters will be at risk.

He's damaged goods, and it's scary that he will be back in circulation in 13 years.

If he's guilty, it's really scary to me as well.

Barney Fowler has released a statement:

The father of a 12-year-old boy arrested in the stabbing death of his 8-year-old sister, Leila Fowler, said he supports his son and believes he is innocent until evidence proves otherwise.

Barney Fowler told The Associated Press today that his family is standing behind the boy "until they have the proper evidence to show it's my son."

Figured the father probably knew it was his son at some point and helped him to avoid arrest for a while. But, maybe the father truly is in denial (or feels that he has good reason to believe it was someone else)?

I'm looking forward to hearing the specific evidence too. Hope it's released to the public.

[BlueTiki]

Did you ever consider the parents are really protecting the older son, as he would be charged as an adult?

[HairOfTheDog]

Did you ever consider the parents are really protecting the older son, as he would be charged as an adult?

Crossed my mind, especially when I learned that he was the one with the Leila tattoo. But, I think police probably have verification that he was at the Little League game or elsewhere.

Still a possibility, though. There could be a lot more to this story that's not necessarily being held back by LE, but held back from LE. JMO.

We don't know the time of the attack, only the time that the 12 year old called his dad (instead of 911) and the time Leila was officially pronounced dead at the hospital. It's reported that the baseball game started at 9 a.m. The call to dad didn't occur until around 12:15. Lots could have gone down in those 3+ hours, or even before.

[HairOfTheDog]

911 Call Released

Very interesting; take a listen.

http://www.news10.net/news/article/24511...rder-audio


Leila's stepmom, Crystal, made the call to 911.

Anyone else think that we've now got at least 3 people in that house, not just Leila and the 12 year old brother?

If I'm interpreting the call properly, it's Leila's older sister (pictured in vigil photos upthread) who Crystal states was screaming in the bathroom, on the phone with her boyfriend, after "they" saw the intruder run out.

It's a bit confusing. Crystal says there's a 12 year old and a 9 year old in the home (maybe she just got Leila's age wrong; big sister has gotta be older than 9 ys old).

Waiting for more details...

[BlueTiki]

Leila's stepmom, Crystal, made the call to 911.

Anyone else think that we've now got at least 3 people in that house, not just Leila and the 12 year old brother?

Yes . . . three . . . and no mention of Leila being injured.

She also said "Her older son . . ." but the 12 year old is not hers.

[Eat Shit And Die]

I'd turn my son over in a heart beat especially if I believed he'd be treated as a juvenile. I hope I'd still do it if he were 17 but that would be really painful.

if your child had murdered a young child at 12 or 30 you should hand his ass in.

[Eat Shit And Die]

CNN is reporting that 5 days before the murder the boy was suspended for bringing a knife to school.

Thank goodness it wasn't a gun.

We would have never heard the end of it.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yes . . . three . . . and no mention of Leila being injured.

She also said "Her older son . . ." but the 12 year old is not hers.

Just listened again.

I was wrong; she did say that her daughter was on the phone with her boyfriend, freaking out. But, she said her "older son" was in the bathroom.

Crystal refers to Priscilla's children as her's consistently. So, for now, I'm presuming it's the 12 year old suspect that was in the bathroom (cleaning up?); there are younger boys in the family.

Did the older daughter come home after the stabbing, during it, was she there all along? Did she claim to see the intruder, or did Crystal just say that "they" saw him because the suspect (or whomever made the call to the parents) wrongly gave her that impression?

I no longer think it's safe to assume that all of the other kids were at the ballgame just because we haven't heard otherwise. We KNOW that at least the older daughter was in the home before the parents and EMTs arrived (assuming Crystal wasn't referring to Leila whom she thought was freaking out and on the phone with a boyfriend - seems unlikely).

Continue to suspect a web-spin on this one; just speculation.

[BlueTiki]

I need a family tree.

Leila's bio mom only claims Leila and her protective 12 year old brother in the interview.

I have no idea who baby mama or daddy is for the rest of the brood.