Cliven Bundy vs. Government land management

[Adub]

I really think the FBI let these guys go for so long just to get a good picture of the support they actually have rather than internet chatter. Anybody who thinks the return addresses of all incoming mail weren't logged and recorded is fooling themselves.

They let them go on so long in order to build a federal conspiracy case. Which was handed to the federal gov't via social media. And the daily press conferences from Ammon. Just sucks for him that his pocket constitution, and his daddy's beliefs, are erroneous. I am no constitutional scholar, however, I have a brain.

But anyways, I doubt that this is going to go much farther than the 16 already indicted.

[Maggot]

I kinda get a kick out of these guys, they take over a refuge and have no plan afterwards. There are plenty of militias out there that keep their mouths shut as it should be, I see nothing wrong with it as long as they keep out of everyone else's business but I guess they had something to prove and this is their way. At least it puts the spotlight on government overreach I guess.

[Adub]

I kinda get a kick out of these guys, they take over a refuge and have no plan afterwards. There are plenty of militias out there that keep their mouths shut as it should be, I see nothing wrong with it as long as they keep out of everyone else's business but I guess they had something to prove and this is their way. At least it puts the spotlight on government overreach I guess.

There is no fucking gov't overreach, gah!

[Maggot]

There is always government overreach in one form or another. There is a reason why they did this, and it probably won't end there. The thing about the government is they have unlimited resources in a court of law and they use other peoples money to fund it. These people should have used their monetary resources to gain more public support not force their will this way, but they had a reason for doing what they did. Maybe survival and their way of life I'm not sure. But yes it was the wrong way to do things.

[blueberryhill]

I kinda get a kick out of these guys, they take over a refuge and have no plan afterwards. There are plenty of militias out there that keep their mouths shut as it should be, I see nothing wrong with it as long as they keep out of everyone else's business but I guess they had something to prove and this is their way. At least it puts the spotlight on government overreach I guess.

I don't think it spotlights Government overreach at all. I think it spotlights just how stupid some of our armed citizens are, thinking they can bait the Federal Gov't to start a war. This on property which doesn't belong to them, taking over the birds' habitat, destroying fences, and other property not belonging to them, disrespecting the wishes of the Native Americans,etc. The damages and expenses of LE during this "protest" has been very costly and who do you think is going to pay for this?

I definitely don't get a kick out of these guys, but would like to give them a good kick in their respective butts. Dumb shits I read where some of these guys had criminal records but I can't verify that right now...

[Maggot]

Yes they did it wrong. There are better ways to do things and just like the occupy movement that went down last year some people just don't get it. But people do get fed up at some point and this was their way. It's not right I agree and there are plenty of things that go loony at some point. The occupy thing went down 2 years ago my bad.

[BigMark]

Government needs to be reminded citizens are in charge.

[Adub]

Government needs to be reminded citizens are in charge.

In charge of what? Even the private property we own is governed by city codes and gov't regulations. Which is a good thing.

I don't want to be living next to a trash heap, or the neighbor's dog shitting on my lawn. We live in a civil society. Laws need to be enforced. The federal gov't needs to just go in and get the 4 left out of there. Period. Go in with force, shut this shit down. Stop pussy footing around.

[Adub]

The defend your base is back up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKTP1krs...e=youtu.be

[HairOfTheDog]

I just finished the Newsweek article at the link you posted, Adub. Very good and informative read. None of it was surprising to me, but there were a few specific cases of domestic terrorism that I'd never heard about, and I thought the piece was laid out very well.

I don't think too many Americans realize how many such easily-led citizens are busted every year. They get busted when federal LE has solid evidence to prosecute, often just as they're getting ready to kill a bunch of their fellow Americans in the name of ignorant and misguided hatred of the federal government, perceived racial superiority, or religious fundamentalism - much of which is stoked by nonsense conspiracy theories.

One thing the article didn't address is environmental militants and left wing extremist groups. They too are some dangerous and batshit people.

[BigMark]

Government needs to be reminded citizens are in charge.

In charge of what? Even the private property we own is governed by city codes and gov't regulations. Which is a good thing.

I don't want to be living next to a trash heap, or the neighbor's dog shitting on my lawn. We live in a civil society. Laws need to be enforced. The federal gov't needs to just go in and get the 4 left out of there. Period. Go in with force, shut this shit down. Stop pussy footing around.

I agree, not a fan of these clowns, however when the shit hits the fan you need to be prepared, the government might not be there for weeks. The government is made up of hypocritical self serving lazy assholes who don't give the faintest shit about you or your constitutional rights.

[Adub]

Government needs to be reminded citizens are in charge.

In charge of what? Even the private property we own is governed by city codes and gov't regulations. Which is a good thing.

I don't want to be living next to a trash heap, or the neighbor's dog shitting on my lawn. We live in a civil society. Laws need to be enforced. The federal gov't needs to just go in and get the 4 left out of there. Period. Go in with force, shut this shit down. Stop pussy footing around.

I agree, not a fan of these clowns, however when the shit hits the fan you need to be prepared, the government might not be there for weeks. The government is made up of hypocritical self serving lazy assholes who don't give the faintest shit about you or your constitutional rights.

The shit only hits the fan for criminals. I've got that covered.

And, my sphere of influence and good feelings is small. I like it that way. I've got Louie to the left and Bill to the right. We watch out for each other. No gov't involvement at all, thank you.

[Duchess]

Cliven has been arrested by the FBI.

Cliven Bundy, the Nevada rancher who touched off one armed showdown with federal authorities and applauded another started in Oregon by his sons, was arrested late Wednesday at Portland International Airport and faces federal charges related to the 2014 standoff at his ranch.

Bundy, 74, was booked into the downtown Multnomah County jail at 10:54 p.m.

He faces a conspiracy charge to interfere with a federal officer -- the same charge lodged against two of his sons, Ammon and Ryan, for their role in the Jan. 2 takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Burns. He also faces weapons charges.

The Bundy Ranch Facebook page reported Cliven Bundy was surrounded by SWAT officers and detained after his arrival from Nevada.

He was arrested at 10:10 p.m., authorities said.

Story

[HairOfTheDog]

That's great news, Duchess. It's about effin' time.

Cliven just couldn't stop himself from egging on the remaining unstable occupiers and heading to the scene after the final four fruitcakes committed yesterday to surrendering this morning.

He, of course, was calling for armed militia across the country to join him there, knowing full well that the FBI had infiltrated the perimeter of the refuge center and was trying to get the occupiers to come out peacefully.

Cliven Bundy is such a complete asshole and such an arrogant, mooching, criminal. I hope he gets convicted.

The final four had been calling for politicians to help them and reportedly asked specifically for Michele Fiore (yep, the Nevada representative who sent out those stupid Christmas cards with the whole family carrying guns).

Fiore rationalized Cliven Bundy's illegal standoff in Nevada in 2014. She was reportedly speaking with the occupiers by phone for hours yesterday, along with the FBI. I guess she'll be there if the surrender this morning goes down as planned, holding a press conference and likely trying to rationalize the criminals' actions and turn it into a second amendment platform.

Anyway, I'm glad Cliven is in the slammer and I hope the occupation really does end this morning.

[F.U.]

All this BS over some unpaid fees. Insert pic of FU shaking his head.

[HairOfTheDog]

You missed or chose not to see huge chunks of the story, F.U.

[F.U.]

No, that's how it all started. They stopped paying for the permit to graze on that land. Then it snowballed from there. One thing led to another and here we are today.

[HairOfTheDog]

Oh, so you are aware that unpaid fees and tax evasion were only the start of Cliven Bundys criminal actions, which means you are aware that 'all this BS' happening now is not over only unpaid fees.

Cliven Bundy could have paid the same minimal grazing fees that every other rancher paid; he didn't because he felt he was entitled. He could have gone to court and hammered out a settlement; he chose not to show. He could have let the government remove his cattle after he mooched off the land for 20 years and racked up $1 million debt (the same amount that Michele Fiore evaded in taxes); he instead chose to solicit armed militia to face off with federal LE when they came to collect. He could have supported his son's plea encouraging the end to the criminal occupation of the Oregon wildlife center; he did just the opposite and tried to rally more armed militia to go there and force another armed stand-off with LE.

This all started with Cliven Bundy choosing to believe he's above the law and continuing to break the law. He's should have been arrested two years ago. He got a break and opportunities to make it right, but like the arrogant asshole that he is, he blew it. Now, he's where he belongs, with his criminal dipshit sons, in jail facing appropriate charges.

And, Cliven Bundy's 2014 Nevada stand-off stemmed from unpaid fees. Ammon and Ryan Bundy's Oregon occupation was not about unpaid fees at all.

[F.U.]

This all started when the BLM changed the rules and Bundy protested by refusing to pay the fee. Like usual, its all about the money. You can add all the details after that fact you want, but it still boils down to unpaid fees.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yeah, F.U., the details of what actually happened are kind of important to the reality of the situation.

Cliven Bundy was not put in jail because of unpaid fees and taxes, F.U. Instead, the government tried to shut down his illegal grazing after giving him 20 years of law/court violations and grazing. He "protested' by gathering a bunch of 'patriots' to point loaded weapons at law enforcement who finally came to stop the mooching by taking his cattle. And, he and his patriot militia planned to put women and children on the front lines if any gun fire was exchanged, so everybody could see them being gunned down by the government.

LE chose to avoid bloodshed and pursue Cliven in court; he again dodged his court appearances and then inserted himself into the 2016 illegal occupation of federal property orchestrated by his sons (which was probably emboldened by Cliven's 2014 stand-off, but had nothing to do with unpaid fees according to Ammon Bundy).

So, it doesn't all boil down to unpaid fees as a form of protest. It boils down to breaking several laws as a claimed form of protest. The breaking the law part is what you seem to ignore or try to minimize, however, it's reality.