Presidential race 2016

[HairOfTheDog]

I think better examples of jobs often fied by II's would be restaurant, car wash, agriculture, low end construction, agriculture. Whities won't take those jobs at the same wages. Get rid of all the II's, up go wages, up go prices, down go jobs....

People say II's are a drain on the system but they also spend most everything they make.

I need to find a scholarly article supporting my position (maybe with some charts and statistics thrown in). Then someone who disagrees can go find one that completely disputes whatever I post.

You're right about the types of jobs held by illegal immigrants.



There have been less than 1 million illegal immigrants coming into the US each year over the past 8 years; it's been declining since the peak in 2007.

Illegals come in and other illegals go out. So, even though illegal immigration has been a publicly known issue/practice since the 60s, it's not like the percentage of the population keeps growing and growing in correlation with the rate of entry.

The number of immigrants from Mexico has been decreasing steadily over the last several years; most new immigrants are from South/Central America. There are about 11 million illegal immigrants here now; about 3.5% of the population. However, they make up over 5% of the American labor market because most illegals are of working age and it's not like they can apply for unemployment or welfare. The immigrants largely come here to work and are hired by employers who obviously can't use indentured servants, slaves or child labor like in the early day of our country, and who can no longer attract or maintain American born workers to pick crops, scrub toilets, wash dishes... (or because the employers can't/won't pay minimum wage and be profitable enough to stay in business).

Over half the illegal immigrant population lives in four states: California, Florida, Texas and New York. The crime rate for illegal immigrants across all states is lower than that of the general population.

You'll find economists and analysts who argue illegals add way more to the economy than they cost (many illegals are subject to payroll taxes via fake SS cards but can't draw on what they put in; illegals paid $15 billion in SS taxes last year and $10 billion in state and local taxes). And, you'll find other economists and analysts who estimate that the cost exceeds the benefit. Most agree with Alan Greenspan, however, that illegal immigration slightly benefits the US economy, a 1% or less gain - all pluses and minuses considered in dollars and cents.

You can find a bunch of the economists/analysts pro/con pieces in one place: http://immigration.procon.org/view.answe...nID=000788

Here are some other sources of immigration info:
http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/eco...ion-myths/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-f...opulation/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...n-the-u-s/

[aussiefriend]

We don't have illegals here, we have to clean our own houses.

[Donovan]

When I was in the National Archive one of the rooms was dedicated to immigration through the years. And without fail, whether it was the 18^th, 19^th or 20^th century, or whether it was Italians, Irish, or Chinese...there were always the same assholes making the same complaints about crime, degeneracy, and the weakening of America. Lol we never change.

[Blindgreed1]

I think better examples of jobs often fied by II's would be restaurant, car wash, agriculture, low end construction, agriculture. Whities won't take those jobs at the same wages. Get rid of all the II's, up go wages, up go prices, down go jobs....

People say II's are a drain on the system but they also spend most everything they make.

I need to find a scholarly article supporting my position (maybe with some charts and statistics thrown in). Then someone who disagrees can go find one that completely disputes whatever I post.

You're right about the types of jobs held by illegal immigrants.



There have been less than 1 million illegal immigrants coming into the US each year over the past 8 years; it's been declining since the peak in 2007.

Illegals come in and other illegals go out. So, even though illegal immigration has been a publicly known issue/practice since the 60s, it's not like the percentage of the population keeps growing and growing in correlation with the rate of entry.

The number of immigrants from Mexico has been decreasing steadily over the last several years; most new immigrants are from South/Central America. There are about 11 million illegal immigrants here now; about 3.5% of the population. However, they make up over 5% of the American labor market because most illegals are of working age and it's not like they can apply for unemployment or welfare. The immigrants largely come here to work and are hired by employers who obviously can't use indentured servants, slaves or child labor like in the early day of our country, and who can no longer attract or maintain American born workers to pick crops, scrub toilets, wash dishes... (or because the employers can't/won't pay minimum wage and be profitable enough to stay in business).

Over half the illegal immigrant population lives in four states: California, Florida, Texas and New York. The crime rate for illegal immigrants across all states is lower than that of the general population.

You'll find economists and analysts who argue illegals add way more to the economy than they cost (many illegals are subject to payroll taxes via fake SS cards but can't draw on what they put in; illegals paid $15 billion in SS taxes last year and $10 billion in state and local taxes). And, you'll find other economists and analysts who estimate that the cost exceeds the benefit. Most agree with Alan Greenspan, however, that illegal immigration slightly benefits the US economy, a 1% or less gain - all pluses and minuses considered in dollars and cents.

You can find a bunch of the economists/analysts pro/con pieces in one place: http://immigration.procon.org/view.answe...nID=000788

Here are some other sources of immigration info:
http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/eco...ion-myths/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-f...opulation/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...n-the-u-s/

I tend to question any data regarding illegal immigrants. Not that this doesn't seem logical, but how did they gather this data? Did they poll employers of illegal aliens? The IA themselves? Or is this just a "guestimate?"

[HairOfTheDog]

]I tend to question any data regarding illegal immigrants. Not that this doesn't seem logical, but how did they gather this data? Did they poll employers of illegal aliens? The IA themselves? Or is this just a "guestimate?"

I haven't seen the statistics referenced, which do involve some estimations, challenged by either side. But, all of the references that I provided include their sources.

Here they are again:

http://immigration.procon.org/view.answe...nID=000788
http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/eco...ion-myths/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-f...opulation/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...n-the-u-s/

[Blindgreed1]

]I tend to question any data regarding illegal immigrants. Not that this doesn't seem logical, but how did they gather this data? Did they poll employers of illegal aliens? The IA themselves? Or is this just a "guestimate?"

I haven't seen the statistics referenced, which do involve some estimations, challenged by either side. But, all of the references that I provided include their sources.

Here they are again:

http://immigration.procon.org/view.answe...nID=000788
http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/eco...ion-myths/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-f...opulation/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...n-the-u-s/

I'm not questioning you HOtD, just the data. You always post references which is admirable. Again, the data seems logical, but estimated data doesn't do much for me. May as well say "it seems logical to assume" then to manufacture numbers that appear to be based on facts.

[HairOfTheDog]

I didn't think you were questioning me, though it wouldn't be a problem if you were.

I was just giving you the references for sources in case you want to explore your questions further.

No worries.

[username]

Who picked the crops before the illigals got here?
There's plenty of people on welfare that could do that. I don't understand how we made it as a country before all the cheap labor arrived.
Get rid of the govt handouts and put the niggers and white trash in the fields.

The terminally welfare folk are fat and lazy. I've said it before but you don't see THEM huddled on street corners in the morning hoping some construction crew will pick them up for day's work.

I know in some states, those agriculture jobs were WIDELY offered and the farmers ran in to big problems getting people to take those jobs. Sometimes (I believe) the pay is based on buckets picked and it's hard work...fatties don't want it.

The other conflict (I believe) is the minimum wage laws. There are those that want to keep seeing them go up and up and up... If I were a McDonald's franchise owner in New York and was told I had to pay my burger flippers $15/hr., a few illegal immigrants would look mighty appealing (and I'm sure some would jump at the chance to make $8-9/hr).

So...get rid of all the illegal immigrants, give EVERYONE some increasing minimum wage and watch prices rise for all of us, businesses cut employees (so they can afford to pay the few remaining ones the minimum wage) AND boot out a bunch of people that are putting some money in to the economy (besides the welfare bunch, who else shops at WalMart?). Great idea!

[Maggot]

Many are contemplating automation to avoid all of the 15.00 min wage bullshit. I can see it now Wendys and Burger King with a wall of debit card vending machines.

[Blindgreed1]

Who picked the crops before the illigals got here?
There's plenty of people on welfare that could do that. I don't understand how we made it as a country before all the cheap labor arrived.
Get rid of the govt handouts and put the niggers and white trash in the fields.

The terminally welfare folk are fat and lazy. I've said it before but you don't see THEM huddled on street corners in the morning hoping some construction crew will pick them up for day's work.

I know in some states, those agriculture jobs were WIDELY offered and the farmers ran in to big problems getting people to take those jobs. Sometimes (I believe) the pay is based on buckets picked and it's hard work...fatties don't want it.

The other conflict (I believe) is the minimum wage laws. There are those that want to keep seeing them go up and up and up... If I were a McDonald's franchise owner in New York and was told I had to pay my burger flippers $15/hr., a few illegal immigrants would look mighty appealing (and I'm sure some would jump at the chance to make $8-9/hr).

So...get rid of all the illegal immigrants, give EVERYONE some increasing minimum wage and watch prices rise for all of us, businesses cut employees (so they can afford to pay the few remaining ones the minimum wage) AND boot out a bunch of people that are putting some money in to the economy (besides the welfare bunch, who else shops at WalMart?). Great idea!

You can't beat their prices on fishing and camping gear.

[Jimbone]

Many are contemplating automation to avoid all of the 15.00 min wage bullshit. I can see it now Wendys and Burger King with a wall of debit card vending machines.

This is definitely the future at fast food places. Our Panera has four kiosks, and people line up to use them versus going to a regular cashier. Automation is only going to increase in an attempt to keep profits worth the investment.

[Blindgreed1]

FYI Maggs, I know somebody who has worked closely with the Dems for the last 40 years. He said Biden is just waiting for Hillary to the complete her shitting of the bed and the Biden train will start rolling. The Clinton's have all the money locked down right now.

[Maggot]

Reading Trumps idea's on immigration I kinda like much of it.

From his website


1. A nation without borders is not a nation. There must be a wall across the southern border.

2. A nation without laws is not a nation. Laws passed in accordance with our Constitutional system of government must be enforced.

3. A nation that does not serve its own citizens is not a nation. Any immigration plan must improve jobs, wages and security for all Americans.

[Maggot]

FYI Maggs, I know somebody who has worked closely with the Dems for the last 40 years. He said Biden is just waiting for Hillary to the complete her shitting of the bed and the Biden train will start rolling. The Clinton's have all the money locked down right now.

Everyone knows Biden is a buffoon. That's OK it will stir things up a bit.

[Blindgreed1]

FYI Maggs, I know somebody who has worked closely with the Dems for the last 40 years. He said Biden is just waiting for Hillary to the complete her shitting of the bed and the Biden train will start rolling. The Clinton's have all the money locked down right now.

Everyone knows Biden is a buffoon. That's OK it will stir things up a bit.

He's a middle of the road Dem, which could hold a very strong appeal when the Trump campaign implodes and he goes independent leaving no acceptable GOP alternatives. It's a possibility.

[aussiefriend]

I am just an observer from afar. I have never been to the U.S., but as an observer am I right in assuming that if Trump tries to deport User's illegal entourage that he is going to have a fight on his hands from the elite?

Isn't there a 'not spoken' nudge nudge wink wink hired help set up in the U.S. that works well for all? Tell me if I am wrong. I mean, it works a hell of a lot better than the old slave labor set up you guys had in the 1800s, and that was legal!

[Duchess]

I am just an observer from afar. I have never been to the U.S., but as an observer am I right in assuming that if Trump tries to deport User's illegal entourage that he is going to have a fight on his hands from the elite?

Isn't there a 'not spoken' nudge nudge wink wink hired help set up in the U.S. that works well for all? Tell me if I am wrong. I mean, it works a hell of a lot better than the old slave labor set up you guys had in the 1800s, and that was legal!

If the Donald had his druthers and deported all the illegals I think it would have a massive effect on our economy. I don't know much at all about this kind of thing but I do know that the Mexicans will often do the jobs that blacks & white trash won't even do. What do you think would happen if there were no people to harvest produce at all those big produces farms that sell to Green Giant, Del Monte, Libby's, Campbells, etc. That's just one example. The fact is, illegals play a role in how things run here.

[Jimbone]

Nevermind.

[aussiefriend]

I am just an observer from afar. I have never been to the U.S., but as an observer am I right in assuming that if Trump tries to deport User's illegal entourage that he is going to have a fight on his hands from the elite?

Isn't there a 'not spoken' nudge nudge wink wink hired help set up in the U.S. that works well for all? Tell me if I am wrong. I mean, it works a hell of a lot better than the old slave labor set up you guys had in the 1800s, and that was legal!

If the Donald had his druthers and deported all the illegals I think it would have a massive effect on our economy. I don't know much at all about this kind of thing but I do know that the Mexicans will often do the jobs that blacks & white trash won't even do. What do you think would happen if there were no people to harvest produce at all those big produces farms that sell to Green Giant, Del Monte, Libby's, Campbells, etc. That's just one example. The fact is, illegals play a role in how things run here.

That's exactly what I suspect! and if you pull them out of the system you lose a vital support within your culture, social structure, network and infrastructure. If you remove these people who are deemed "illegal" you may cause a trauma to the U.S. and damage that you may not recover from. Who knows what individual tales of heartache and pain that you are creating? I think it is madness and hysteria at it's worst. He kind of reminds me of a bull in a china shop.

Yes he is rich! But, HE is rich, not YOU! I think people are getting deceived into thinking that if they vote for him that they will become billionaires like him. The reality is, you will be poor and he will continue to be rich.

Finally, when someone is that wealthy, people like you to have a little humility and kindness in your heart. This man comes across as gruff, vulgar and repulsive. He thought he had a shot with Princess Diana. #getoveryourself

[username]

Nevermind.

Pussy.

ETA: I'm honestly interested in your stupid opinion.