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(10-08-2013, 12:08 PM)sally Wrote: They're lucky I wasn't driving the car with my two year old in it because I would have injured more than just one. I would have ran them all over and then backed up and ran them over again.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...y-SUV.html
The off-duty scumbag cop who pulled the father from the SUV and beat him was convicted today.
![[Image: 297AF85200000578-0-image-a-30_1433872624680.jpg]](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/09/18/297AF85200000578-0-image-a-30_1433872624680.jpg)
'Biker cop' ^ Wojciech Braszczok was found guilty of second-degree assault, coercion and riot for the September 2013 attack against Alexian Lien in front of his family in NYC. Braszczok faces up to seven years behind bars.
![[Image: 297AF94900000578-3117000-image-m-27_1433872474588.jpg]](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/09/18/297AF94900000578-3117000-image-m-27_1433872474588.jpg)
^ Co-defendant : Robert Sims, pictured in 2013, faces up to three-and-a-half years behind bars for charges related to the biker gang attack.
Both men were found not guilty of gang assault and first-degree assault which would have put them behind bars for 25 years
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...z3cawy1ECe
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Father was an asshole. Can't believe he wasn't charged for nearly killing someone.
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(06-10-2015, 01:27 AM)Cutz Wrote: Father was an asshole. Can't believe he wasn't charged for nearly killing someone.
I believe it. Self defense / accident.
![[Image: al11.png]](http://scallywagandvagabond.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/al11.png)
^ Cruz got right up in front of the father, Lien, and slowed down so the bikers could take over the road. Cruz got bumped.
Then the whole group of bikers swarmed and tried to intimidate the driver; they succeeded. Lien says he was scared shitless with his wife and baby in the car and put the pedal to the metal when the bikers approached the SUV. Unfortunately, Mieses got plowed when Lien took off.
![[Image: video-undefined-1C0F0B5A00000578-218_636x358.jpg]](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/05/video-undefined-1C0F0B5A00000578-218_636x358.jpg)
I believe the now-paralyzed biker ^ Mieses, who seems like a decent guy, when he says he was only off his bike to check on Cruz and wasn't part of the group going at Lien.
He says he was trying to tell the other riders, most of whom he didn't know, not to get violent and ruin the ride. I agree with him that Lien is not to blame for what happened to him. He says he doesn't blame Lien and can't know what he'd do or what was in Lien's mind when a group of bikers were coming at him and his family like that.
Ref: Mieses interview: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/bike...-1.1711176
It would be very difficult, IMO, to convince a jury that Lien wasn't in reasonable fear of bodily harm when he went into flight mode and hit Mieses.
Anyway, Mieses can file a civil suit against Lien for damages if he so desires. He's got a hell of an attorney, Gloria Allred. Last year Allred said that she hadn't ruled out a civil suit, but I don't think Mieses has pursued it.
That's my take based on what I've read of the incident and to the best of my understanding. What's yours Cutz?
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My take is that the SUV ran into the back of a motorcycle in front of him because the motorcyclers had been acting like dicks and his wife was throwing food at them. So after he caused a traffic accident, he fled the scene of the accident by running over a person.
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(06-10-2015, 11:43 AM)Cutz Wrote: My take is that the SUV ran into the back of a motorcycle in front of him because the motorcyclers had been acting like dicks and his wife was throwing food at them. So after he caused a traffic accident, he fled the scene of the accident by running over a person.
The allegations from police were that the bikers, as part of the Hollywood Block Party involving hundreds of bikers, ran red lights, stopped traffic and did wheelies and other risky stunts on the roads endangering other drivers.
Mrs. Lien threw a plum seed out the window at them, which she shouldn't have done and later said she regretted, and the bikers smashed the rear-view mirror in retaliation. That coulda been the end of it.
But, then Cruz got in front of the Liens' SUV to stop them or slow them and he got bumped by Mr. Lien. Even if you think Lien did that on purpose, it would be very difficult to prove that was in his mind when he says otherwise and video shows the bikers acting like thugs and causing a lot of chaos.
The SUV was stopped and bikers swarmed, banging at the windows with knives and hammers, and screaming that they were gonna kill Mr. Lien. Personally, I think it would have been asinine for Mr. Lien to sit there waiting for a cop to show up while a dozen pissed off bikers were attacking.
According to their testimony, the Liens were in fear for their lives and tried to get the hell out of there. I would have done the same. That's when they unfortunately hit Mieses.
They raced northward with a flat tire, exiting near the George Washington Bridge and looking for a police precinct station house and were blocked and stopped by the bikers. The bikers pulled Mr. Lien from the driver's seat and slashed and beat the hell out of him. They tried to pull Mrs. Lien out but she just kept kicking and was held in by her seat belt.
A lot of it was caught on tape and 11 of the bikers charged pleaded guilty to the assault. The two who pleaded not guilty were just convicted by a judge of second degree of assault.
I just don't see how charges against Mr. Lien were warranted, or could be proven even if you believe they were warranted. I guess Mrs. Lien could have been charged with littering or attempted assault and gotten probation or something. But, I don't personally think that would have served any purpose.
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The accusations "from police" were alleged by Lien himself. And she threw a half eaten plum and a bottle of water at them.
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(06-10-2015, 02:52 PM)Cutz Wrote: The accusations "from police" were alleged by Lien himself. And she threw a half eaten plum and a bottle of water at them.
Oh, a half-eaten plum then. The water bottle blew back and hit her. In either case, I don't think those stupid reactions to the stupid actions of the bikers' on the road justify what the bikers did to the family or make it provable that Lien hit anyone on purpose or was trying to flee the scene of a crime that he committed. I believe the couple was reasonably in fear for their lives when they fled.
Of course what Lien told police is a big part of the equation; the state of mind of the person who is claiming self defense is always the crux.
But, there's also video and witnesses in this case. And, there was enough evidence that the bikers' were at fault to elicit 11 guilty pleas and 2 guilty verdicts.
I think Mrs. Lien acted recklessly and childishly, that's uncontested. And, I think the bikers acted criminally and violently, that's been proven in courts of law.
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If they were out for a ride not causing trouble and obeying the law, Lien would be a total asshole. But they weren't. They were being dicks. A big pack of jiggly dicks. And in their dickotry - hard braking in front of an SUV, causing an incident - one of them got run over.
I've seen plenty of bike packs ride with no problem in and around traffic on highways, back roads, and city streets. That's not what these guys were doing. Don't start no trouble there won't be no trouble.
I'm not saying anyone deserved to get hurt, but what the fuck? When you engage in mob like behavior on a motorcycle what the fuck do you expect people to do? Cower and get out of the way? They are going to fucking panic, because that's what most people do in mob situations.
*ETA I changed chasing in the first sentence to causing... autocorrect sucks balls sometimes.
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It sucks that the good guy was the one to get ran over, figures, but if a mob came at me I would have ran all their sorry asses over. Whether I threw a plum at them or not.
Bikers get on my nerves, not to the point that I'd throw a plum at them, but they think they can do whatever the fuck they want. And then everyone has bumper stickers that says "watch out for bikers". Yeah my ass, I watch out for everyone, I'm not trying to kill anyone. Bikers aren't anymore special.
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Correction: It was actually 11 bikers charged in all (not 13, as I mistakenly alluded upthread).
Nine pleaded guilty, and two (including a cop) were found guilty by a judge.
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The guys on the biles were assholes, acted like assholes, intimidated people and started the whole thing.
I've been riding a long time and have seen this kind of behavior a lot, pretty regular out here. The guys on the bikes run in packs and for some idiotic reason decide that the rule o law and courtesy on the road does not apply to them
This bunch of ass clowns started the whole thing and seem to have gotten what they deserved
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(06-10-2015, 03:48 PM)sally Wrote: It sucks that the good guy was the one to get ran over, figures, It's shit like this that shows how clueless you are. There's not one good guy. There were dozens of good guys just like there were dozens of assholes doing wheelies and banging cars. And there was a half dozen riders who beat the shit out of the guy.
Trust me, I'm as embarrassed and appalled by asshole riders as anyone. I've never ridden in a group, I've never popped a wheelie, I don't lane split, I don't drive down shoulders and blow past people at stoplights. Groups like this mob give me and other good riders out there a bad name. I dislike their behavior more than you probably know. They were complete, utter assholes.
That doesn't mean the family is innocent. If they were scared of the "mob", they wouldn't have driven with them. If papa had really cared about the safety of him and his family against this vicious gang - as the media mistakenly portrays every bike rally - why'd he not slow down when the biker that pulled in front of him did? The biker didn't slam on his brakes. If wifey, who was clearly not wearing any sort of seat belt in the video when the husband was beaten (contrary to claims it saved her life), was so concerned for her child, why was she throwing shit at the group?
They chose to be there. They chose to fight with the group, Then the dad chose to DRIVE OVER PEOPLE AND VEHICLES, fleeing the scene of an accident. (Bump - what is this nascar? You can't bump someone on the road, it's fucking TA.) If he hadn't been beaten to shit, he'd be in jail. Just because the other group is charged for what happened AFTER doesn't mean he's not a criminal. It's a chicken/egg thing. "Clearly he was right to fear for his life, the mob beat him." Well, the mob beat him because he ran over a person. A person who is paralyzed. Is ol' innocent daddy paralyzed for his attack?
He was an asshole. Many of the bikers and all of the attackers were assholes. There's plenty of riders in that group that were not assholes, one of whom is paralyzed.
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The mob was already at his car banging on the windows before he harmed anyone, like I said I would have ran them all down whether I threw a plum at them or not. The mother was an asshole for throwing stuff at them, I don't even flip anyone off since you never know what hot head has a gun. But I don't think that justifies the mob stopping them, banging on the windows and scaring the shit out of a family with a kid in the car on top of it. That's how the guy got paralyzed, he walked over there to tell them to stop. I don't see how saying it's too bad he happened to get run over instead of one of the assholes makes me clueless. I guess if you're a good guy you shouldn't be riding with a bunch assholes.
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there wasn't a mob banging on his windows till he fled. The point is that you keep saying it was one nice guy riding with a bunch of assholes. In reality, it was a bunch of nice guys riding with a bunch of ok guys riding with a bunch of assholes, just like any group of people.
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That "Bunch of nice guys" didn't do jack shit to stop something that was clearly wrong though did they.
So, Cowards? Don't give a shit? Confused?
Not my definition of nice guys
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(06-11-2015, 01:35 PM)Cutz Wrote: there wasn't a mob banging on his windows till he fled. The point is that you keep saying it was one nice guy riding with a bunch of assholes. In reality, it was a bunch of nice guys riding with a bunch of ok guys riding with a bunch of assholes, just like any group of people.
Where are you getting that from? The way I'm reading it is that the bikers were acting like douche bags, the wife got pissed and threw a plum at them most likely not expecting a mob attack to result from it, the bikers surrounded their car and slowed down in front of them to make them come to a stop. At that point they got off their bikes, surrounded the car and scared the shit out of the guy causing him to step on the gas and run over the guy who supposedly only walked over there to tell the bikers to stop.
Once he hit the guy he then stopped again and that's when they pulled him out of the car and beat the shit out of him.
I don't know how many nice guys were riding with the bunch, nor do I care. That wouldn't be my concern when a group of bikers bring me to a stop and surround my car while I have my 2 year old with me.
Also if I realized I was riding with a group of assholes that were pissing of other drivers by acting like jerks I'd keep my distance from them and either drive ahead or stay far behind.
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I got the feeling the "bikers" got "group tough".
They were looking for an excuse to go bad-ass on a dad.
An opportunity to pretend they were SAMCRO, while away from their call center jobs.
They're lucky it was just a plum.
If it was me, it would have been Mr. Browning and 911.
A bunch of no-cut wannabe vigilantes.
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I understand that he didn't get beat up until he ran the guy down, but before that they forced him to stop by slowing down and surrounding him. Obviously the drivers intent wasn't to injure anyone or he would have just ran that douchebag over that slowed down in front of him. He came to a stop which is what I probably would have done too, but once they got off their bikes and surrounded my car yelling at me and scaring the shit out of my kid I would have mowed them all down. It's unfortunate the guy that was there actually trying to help is the one that got hit.
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He hit the guy that slowed down in front of him. If it were me, I never would have driven with them. ESPECIALLY after they broke my side mirror. What other fucking clue do you need? But no, I guess putting your family in danger and running someone over once you've done so is more important.
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If I hit an asshole on a bike he's gonna go flying, I'm pretty sure he only tapped him. Yes if it were me I would have distanced myself from them too for the safety of not only my kid but myself also. Stupid to pick a fight with anyone much less a gang of bikers. I'm not arguing that the driver and his wife are at some fault.
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