McSTAY FAMILY - Found Dead 4 Years After Vanishing

[HairOfTheDog]

Damn it.

I've been following this story since the first day it hit the news.

4 bodies have been found by an off-road motorcyclist in a remote area of Victorville. The two adults have reportedly been confirmed to be Joseph and Summer McStay. The children have not been positively identified as of yet.

Press conference today at 11 a.m. PST.


The McStays (pictured below) disappeared from their home in San Diego county, CA in February, 2010.



They haven't been heard from since.

LE and FBI have said there were no signs of foul play, though they were always investigating the missing persons case. The family's home was left in disarray with food open on the counters and the beloved family dog was left unattended in the backyard. But, the family had moved recently and they weren't all that orderly of people anyway so forced exit wasn't an obvious conclusion.

The family's disappearance has been the topic of several television programs and extensive internet discussion, debate, and sleuthing (did they take off willingly to surf and hang out on the beach - a lifestyle they liked, did one spouse kill the other, did family members help them escape some criminal lifestyle, are they part of a witness protection program?, etc.).

Shortly after their disappearance, a video of a family that looked a lot the McStays was discovered; the family was crossing the border from California into Mexico. The McStays vehicle had been found abandoned in San Ysidro, not far from the border.

That video has been the source of debate and discussion for years now. IIRC, at least one of Joseph McStay's family members stated that they don't think it was him, but that it could be his wife Summer and the boys. Seems obvious now, it wasn't the McStays at all.

Story:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me...z2kjnF1aLz

[Duchess]

I remember this story. It's as strange to me now as it was whenever I would hear about it in the news. I always find it odd when people just up & leave.

[Midwest Spy]

I had followed this story too when it first broke.

Most can't believe they've been found dead, but at least one person is not surprised:

http://www.cbs8.com/story/20962639/new-t...tay-family

[HairOfTheDog]

I guess LE still believes that the McStays crossed the border willingly and then something happened to them.

This should now become a "homicide" investigation and hopefully we'll eventually learn what the hell happened to the McStay family and who's responsible for their deaths.

From the press conference:
McMahon (Sheriff, LE spokesperson) said he could not confirm that the deaths are linked to a drug cartel after being asked several times about that possibility at the news conference.

"We're looking at all options in investigating who the suspects are," said McMahon. "It's too early for us to identify anybody as a suspect."

Joseph McStay, of Fallbrook, Calif. and his wife Summer were last seen with their two children, then ages 3 and 4, in February 2010, NBC7 San Diego reported. A group resembling the McStay family were spotted on surveillance footage crossing into Mexico at the San Ysidro border crossing on Feb. 8, 2010.

Investigators with the FBI, which is handling the family’s case, said it’s believed the family went to Mexico of their own free will.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/...12651.html

[HairOfTheDog]

I had followed this story too when it first broke.

Most can't believe they've been found dead, but at least one person is not surprised:

http://www.cbs8.com/story/20962639/new-t...tay-family

Rick Baker's book theorized that Patrick and Michael McStay (Joseph's father and brother) were involved in helping the McStays flee the state/country and possibly stealing money from the missing family.

Baker's favored theory in his book, however, paints Summer McStay as having murdered her husband and taken off to start a new life with the kids.

I would think he would, indeed, be very surprised that the whole family is dead and buried together, MS.

[Midwest Spy]

In the quick snippet of the e-mail exchange between them, maybe Joe's digging into Summer's past got the entire family killed.

I doubt he'd be surprised at that outcome.

[HairOfTheDog]

RIP Joseph, Summer, Gianni, and Joey Jr.

Investigation now classified as "Homicide"
After having considered the McStay family "voluntarily missing" for nearly four years, LE has launched a homicide investigation with some new sets of eyes. Good.

Who did It and Why?
The 4 bodies were found in two separate graves. Manner of death is not yet known. Motive, of course, is also unknown at this time.

The usual supsects?
I think the killer(s) is probably someone close to the family; business associate, family member, disgruntled ex, former friend... But, the McStays may have been killed by someone unknown to them - remains to be seen.

Possible avenues/leads for exploration?
Joseph was having some disputes with his business partner and his webmaster; Summer had changed her name legally a few times and harbored some apparent hesitance to talk about or connect with her bio-dad; the McStays may have had laborers in the house helping with renovations prior to their disappearance; the McStays were allegedly involved in a CPS case whereby they claimed Joseph's oldest son from his previous marriage was being abused - and his ex-wife had fired back with claims against Joseph and Summer (that's from the Baker book, not LE-verified), etc...

^ All info that could be potential leads now that the family is known to be dead, rather than voluntarily missing.

However, this case has never seriously been looked at as a possible homicide by LE before, so all possibilities are still on the table. Drug cartel, sexual predator, attempted home invasion or car jacking gone wrong - none ruled in or out at this point, AFAIK. It just seems unlikely, to me, that they were random targets of a stranger.

Victims of a Serial Killer?
There's some speculation that Israel Keyes, a prolific serial killer who recently killed himself, might be responsible. Timing and geography could fit. Personally, I don't think Keyes would have targeted an entire family with kids, but he should be considered and ruled in or out of the possible suspect pool as quickly as possible. (Link to ESAD's Israel Keyes thread: http://mockforums.net/thread-10641.html )

Hoping to see some arrest(s) made soon

This article includes a good quick overview for those new to the case:
http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-victo...z2kjnF1aLz

[HairOfTheDog]

In the quick snippet of the e-mail exchange between them, maybe Joe's digging into Summer's past got the entire family killed.

I doubt he'd be surprised at that outcome.

I don't know why you're presuming, based on a snippet from a 2005 private email, that Baker would not be surprised that the true fate of the McStays proves all of his theories wrong.

Doesn't really matter, but FTR, Baker is indeed surprised.“I never in my wildest, nightmarish dreams could have comprehended that the family of four would be dead. I always thought that I would see one of them, meet one of them one day. I almost feel like they’re part of my family,” said Baker.
Source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Mc...z2kpypne2W
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Patrick McStay, Joseph's dad, on the other hand, is not surprised. He's been at war with Baker regarding some of the allegations made by Baker in his book. Patrick told NBC back in April of this year, "someone killed all four and wanted them to think the family crossed the border.”

Patrick McStay has long contended that San Diego police had not handled the case properly and were too quick to assume the family had not met with foul play and had instead pulled a runner.

Yesterday, Patrick weighed in on the discovery of the bodies:"In my heart, I knew it was coming," Patrick McStay said. Patrick reports that he doesn't know exactly what happened to his family, but "he has suspicions regarding "why" and "who".
Source: http://www.cbs8.com/story/23983055/mcstay-family-member

Patrick is likely in very close communications with FBI; really hoping the discovery of the bodies puts a whole lot of puzzle pieces into place quickly for investigators..
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One of the two shallow graves where remains were found:


The family car was found at the Mexican border; their home was located between the border and where their bodies were discovered:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...Stays.html

[username]

What a strange case. I don't see any clear motive for killing the entire family. My first thought would have been murder/suicide.

I wonder if you could do that. Kill all the other members of your family, bury them all pulling dirt on yourself in the meantime and then shooting yourself.

I have a vivid imagination. I wonder what the scene will reveal. Were they killed there? Elsewhere? All sorts of questions.

[HairOfTheDog]

What a strange case. I don't see any clear motive for killing the entire family. My first thought would have been murder/suicide.

I wonder if you could do that. Kill all the other members of your family, bury them all pulling dirt on yourself in the meantime and then shooting yourself.

I have a vivid imagination. I wonder what the scene will reveal. Were they killed there? Elsewhere? All sorts of questions.

Tons of questions, for sure.

I don't think murder/suicide is likely (or possible, unless there was an accomplice) since they were all buried and their white Trooper was left at the Mexico border in San Ysidro, CA - like 150 miles from their graves in Victorville.

There were no signs of violence in the car or at the house, according to all of the early police reports.

We don't know yet if there were any weapons or evidence at the grave site, nor the manner of death, so technically nothing can be ruled out based on what's been released to the public.

I really wanna know if they were shot, stabbed, strangled, drugged... But, I'm not sure LE will release that info until they arrest a suspect(s). Hopefully, they have a suspect(s) and they'll get a confession to some details known only to the killer(s) and LE.


HOTD: Post edited for clarity / additional info

[HairOfTheDog]

McSTAY TIMELINE - TOP LEVEL

2010
Jan. 28, 2010 – Someone using the McStay’s computer searched for information about travel to Mexico and passports for children days before they disappeared.

Jan. 31 - Family celebrates youngest son Joseph Jr. 3^rd birthday

Feb. 4 - Joseph McStay stopped answering his cell phone according to his brother. Summer McStay last spoke with her sister. Summer and Joseph text each other around 5 p.m.

Feb. 4, 7:47 p.m. - Surveillance camera at a neighbor's home shows family's Isuzu trooper leaving the cul de sac. Camera does not show who is in the vehicle.

Feb. 4, 8:28 p.m. - Fallbrook cellphone tower pings Joseph's phone. He makes a call to an employee in Rancho Cucamonga to talk about work.

Feb. 8 – Family’s 1996 Isuzu Trooper towed from a parking lot near San Ysidro, Calif. Security guards later tell investigators that it may have been parked there sometime between 5:30 p.m. and 7 p.m.

Feb. 10 - San Diego County sheriffs deputies conduct a welfare check on the McStay home. No signs of foul play, deputies do not go inside.

Feb. 13 - Mike McStay (Joseph's Brother) crawls inside an open window, searching for family. Finds family dogs had not been fed and food was left on the counter in the kitchen.

Feb. 15 - Family members report the entire family missing to San Diego County sheriff’s deputies

Feb. 19 – Homicide investigators searched the family’s home on Avocado Vista Lane in Fallbrook, Calif. They say there was no sign of struggle.

Feb. 22 – Deputies say the disappearance has them baffled.

Feb. 23 - detectives notify Interpol to be on the look out for McStay family who might be traveling in Mexico.

Feb. 25 – Officials release fliers and ask Mexican authorities for a search of airports, bus stations and other major travel hubs.

March 5 - Video released deputies say they've spotted images of a group of people similar to the McStay family going hand in hand into Mexico through the pedestrian gate. The video is dated around 7 p.m. Feb. 8. Video below.

[video=youtube][video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrW223Yq6Ik[/video]

March 18 – Relatives allow media a tour of the McStay family home.

March 30 – FBI joins the investigation.

May 13 - Seven investigators arrived in El Rosario, Mexico after a tip from the staff of a local restaurant. The waiter accurately described a birthmark on Joey McStay's forehead.

June 19 – The McStay family mystery was featured on “America’s Most Wanted”

August 3 – The belongings were removed from the McStay family home by relatives.

2013
April 9, 2013: Based on surveillance video captured a the border crossing, San Diego Sheriff’s Department investigators announce that the McStay family left for Mexico voluntarily.

Nov .11 - Motorcycle rider finds human remains in northern Victorville desert.

Nov. 12 - Forensic investigators including an anthropologist work through day and night uncovering two grave sites with multiple human remains.

Nov. 13 - Sheriff's investigators conclude that remains of four people have been discovered.

Nov. 15 - San Bernardino County Sheriff John McMahon identifies the bodies found as Joseph, Summer, Joseph Mateo and Gianani McStay.

Source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Ti...z2l7JAIOvb

[Duchess]

Does anyone know if the birthmark was public knowledge? I suppose it was if a description had been put out. Such a curious case. I want to say that people don't just up & leave but I guess it probably happens all the time.

[HairOfTheDog]

McStay Family; ID Discovery "Disappeared" episode. Mystery at The Border.

[HairOfTheDog]

Does anyone know if the birthmark was public knowledge? I suppose it was if a description had been put out. Such a curious case. I want to say that people don't just up & leave but I guess it probably happens all the time.

The birthmark was public knowledge; it was described in missing persons fliers, news articles, etc...

Not sure if the restaurant tipster saw someone with a similar birthmark or if he did indeed see the McStays and they were killed sometime later (assuming he wasn't lying).

IIRC, the tipster said it was a little boy and a little girl with the couple. Gianni McStay was a beautiful boy and the boys both wore caps often (like the ones the kids in the border crossing video are wearing), so it didn't render the tip obviously invalid.



Interested to learn how long the ME estimates the McStays have been dead; when he/she finishes the analysis.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yesterday, four white crosses were erected and a memorial was held in the desert where the remains of Joseph, Summer, Gianni and Joey, Jr. (Chubba) were discovered.



It surprises me how close the graves were to the I-15.

I think whoever dug those two graves and buried the bodies there was brazen, whether they did it in the day or at night. Grateful that the grave-digger(s) didn't dig a little deeper - the family might never have been found.

RIP; waiting impatiently for news and arrests.

[crash]

It surprises me how close the graves were to the I-15.

It feels kind of weird that I drove that road in May, coming so close to something that feels a world away. I stopped off in Victorville looking at Route 66 markers.

[HairOfTheDog]

It's kind of eerie. I used to drive I-15 every few months, taking my mom to Vegas. We stopped in Victorville a few times.

If I needed to stash some bodies, I'd sure avoid doing so alongside that route.

No updates from LE yet. San Bernadino county now owns the investigation since that's where the bodies were found. Probably a good thing that the investigation has moved out of San Diego county (where their home was located); new sets of eyes and all.

Josheph McStay's father hasn't named names, but the descriptions of those he considers suspects lead me to believe he is referring to Joseph's business associate/partner or his webmaster; Summer McStay's ex who had moved closer to the family and was reportedly still infatuated with her; and the husband of Joseph's ex-wife and stepfather to their son.

The business associate is an ex-convict (theft related crimes) and the ex-wife's husband has a criminal record as well (may include assault, but I don't know the exact details).

The business associate/partner, Chase Merritt, has been investigated by LE, but hasn't spoken to the media before a couple of days ago. There are some interesting bits in his interview.

Chase Merritt Interview:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...lence.html

[HairOfTheDog]

POSITIVE IDENTIFICATIONS COMPLETE



Not surprising, but now official: the two sets of children's remains have been positively identified through DNA testing as Gianni and Joseph Mateo McStay. The San Bernadino Sheriff's Office made the announcement yesterday; one week after the adult remains had been positively identified (via dental records) as Joseph and Summer McStay.

Sheriff’s officials close to the investigation confirmed at least one set of remains taken out of one of the two grave sites had been bound with an electric cord. Clothing was also found in the graves. Hopefully, this evidence uncovered at the grave site will help LE to identify/nail the killer(s).

Officials have concluded the four McStays were victims of homicide, but are not releasing additional details regarding the ongoing investigation.

Ref:
http://www.sbsun.com/general-news/201311...tively-idd

[Cheyne]

I read Chase Merritt's interview, and I believe him. He took a lie detector test (not that they are 100% accurate). If he had failed, the cops would have been over him like white on rice. Mr. Merritt seems to be an honest man, owning up to his criminal background-none of which is violent-and repeatedly stating that Joseph was a very good friend of his.

Did Michael McStay take a lie detector test? Why didn't Michael or his mother Susan call the police until the McStays were missing for 7 days? If Chase is telling the truth and he was out at the McStay's house on day 4, told Susan he was heading out to the house and to call Mike, why didn't Mike head out to the house until day 7?

Chase may be a damned liar about all of this. If he is telling the truth, what the hell were Michael and Susan doing for 7 days while the family was missing?

ETA: I do not believe that Susan McStay had anything to do with the disappearance or murders of the McStay family.

[HairOfTheDog]

I do not believe that Susan McStay had anything to do with the disappearance or murders of the McStay family.

Do you think Michael was involved or knows more than he's saying, Cheyne?

IIRC, there was some talk about him withdrawing money from Joseph's business account after the family went missing. If so, don't know if he did that to keep the business running or if he took advantage of the situation (or knew they would never be returning).

For a while I wondered if Michael had been asked to take care of loose ends and knew that the family had left voluntarily. I guess that could still be the case if they initially "disappeared" voluntarily and were later killed, but that seems unlikely.

IDK. It's weird to me that Susan cleaned the house and tossed some things while the family was missing. But, she probably just didn't think about how that might mess up a potential crime scene. Still, I wonder a little if she might have thought the family had something to hide.

Michael seems devastated, to me. But, I don't think the family was as close as it's been portrayed. Maybe alarms didn't go off sooner because it wasn't unusual for Joseph to take off with his family and not return calls from his mother and brother (or anyone else), especially if Summer was present?