Michael Dunn Trial: The Murder of Jordan Davis

[Duchess]

I heard it said that even though he wasn't found guilty of 1^st degree murder his sentencing will actually be life in prison. He will die in prison. I hope those who cared about Jordan can find some comfort in that.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Good, maybe this asshole will do some serious time, and just Maybe get people to acquire some common sense out here. I am not going to hold my breath, but one can always hope.

[HairOfTheDog]

After processing all of this for a bit tonight, I'm feeling much better about the outcome here. Especially after reading Jordan's mom's reaction. She's praying for Dunn. She knows he's going away for a very long time; rightfully so. She knows Dunn won't be able to blow his stack and kill another kid.

Dunn's fucked. Good. He fucked himself when he stole a life.

Dunn has been remanded to the custody of authorities. Sentencing, which could total as much as 75 years in prison, was set for around March 24.

If Dunn's sentences aren't to run concurrent and he gets decades behind bars, I hope Angela Corey considers the wishes of Jordan's family before committing to retry Dunn on the murder of Jordan.

If Ron and Lucia feel that having Dunn put away, for what will essentially be life for Dunn, is what they need (even if the conviction wasn't in Jordan's name), I think Corey should respect that and not waste the time and money on a retrial.

If Ron and Lucia feel, on the other hand, that they need a conviction in their son's name, that's perfectly understandable and worth considering a retrial over.

[Duchess]

Attorneys are saying that because this is a gun related crime his sentences will not run concurrently. He could get 20, 20, 20 or 30, 30, 30, another said he would do at least 75 yrs. Whatever he gets, it will last as long as his life, he will never be a free man again.

[aussiefriend]

I went back and read the beginning of this thread and it was very interesting given the verdicts are now back. I think the whole story is very sad. I don't think that this guy was probably an evil man, he is someone who lost his cool after a couple of drinks and with the gun laws being the way they are over in the US he has taken his gun and used it. It's sad for him too, because of his foolish actions he has ruined not just his own life and the life of his family but also the lives of the victims and their families. There are no winners in this trial.

[Duchess]

I don't feel bad for the shooter & I'm glad he'll never know another moment of freedom in his life. Prison is going to be rough for him, particularly now that his personal correspondence has been released. One way or another he's going to pay for what he did, certainly at the hands of the justice system and probably at the hands of the other inmates.

[aussiefriend]

The thing with his correspondence is that it is very bad, but in fairness to him it is no different and certainly no worse than what other people probably say behind closed doors. It's unfortunate for him that it has come into the public domain. They will have to protect him. Had either of them been 5 minutes earlier or later this would never have happened. He is not your classic criminal I guess is what I am trying to say. Whereas Zimmerman was a vigilante. I am not making excuses for cold blooded murder. Even though he had a few drinks under his belt and his inhibitions were down, he has to pay, had he have been completely sober he may have shown more restraint.

[HairOfTheDog]

Attorneys are saying that because this is a gun related crime his sentences will not run concurrently. He could get 20, 20, 20 or 30, 30, 30, another said he would do at least 75 yrs. Whatever he gets, it will last as long as his life, he will never be a free man again.

Hope those attorneys are right.

I think it's up to Judge Healey as to how much time will be imposed for each conviction and whether the sentences will run concurrently or consecutively. Dunn's defense attorney will likely be putting forth much of the same rationale as aussie's in order to minimize his sentence. We'll know on March 24^th, anyway.

Even though I'm happy that Dunn may well get a lot of time and not be a danger to anyone else, I really wanted the jury to come back with at least second degree for the murder of Jordan Davis, to deliver the message that gun owners can't kill unarmed people - in the heat of anger or out of irrational fear without having assessed the situation - and not be punished (despite the defendant-favorable self-defense laws in some states).

Oh well, Angela Corey has told media that the state of Florida will retry Dunn for Davis's murder. So, maybe that message will be delivered - just delayed.

Still blown away that the jury couldn't at least agree to second degree guilty, knowing that Dunn didn't report the incident and changed his story between when he was interviewed by police and when he took the stand.

I'm not convinced that Dunn wouldn't have killed somebody else had he not crossed paths with Jordan Davis that day. IMO, it's quite possible that he was feeling like a big man and could have gone off on anyone who disrespected him.

[HairOfTheDog]

MINIMUM SENTENCING

The legal analysts in the media have been all over the map in regards to the possible sentencing for Dunn.

I saw some saying Dunn could get up to 60 years. Others noted that he faced a minimum of 60 years. Yet others said a maximum or minimum of 75 years. And, a few said at least 20 years if concurrent sentences were handed down by the judge.

Finally, I went directly to Florida's 10/20/Life statute - 775.087...

Any person who is convicted of a felony or an attempt to commit a felony listed in sub-subparagraphs (a)1. (includes attempted murder of any degree), regardless of whether the use of a weapon is an element of the felony, and during the course of the commission of the felony such person discharged a “firearm” or “destructive device” as defined in s. 790.001 shall be sentenced to a minimum term of imprisonment of 20 years.

The court shall impose any term of imprisonment provided for in this subsection consecutively to any other term of imprisonment imposed for any other felony offense.

If I'm interpreting it correctly, looks to me like 60 years is the minimum, unless prosecutors specifically request concurrent rather than consecutive sentences for the 3 second-degree attempted murder convictions (I think the 15 years for firing a missile can be sentenced concurrently if the judge is so inclined).

The only reason I could see the prosecutors recommending concurrent sentencing for the separate felony convictions and the judge granting the request is if Corey and team offered that to Dunn in exchange for a guilty plea to second degree murder of Jordan Davis, or something to that effect.

If Dunn is retried and found guilty of murder, this part of the statute would apply:
Any person who is convicted of a felony or an attempt to commit a felony listed in subparagraph (a)1. (includes murder of any degree), regardless of whether the use of a weapon is an element of the felony, and during the course of the commission of the felony such person discharged a semiautomatic firearm and its high-capacity box magazine or a “machine gun” as defined in s. 790.001 and, as the result of the discharge, death or great bodily harm was inflicted upon any person, the convicted person shall be sentenced to a minimum term of imprisonment of not less than 25 years and not more than a term of imprisonment of life in prison.

The statute in full: http://www.flsenate.gov/laws/statutes/2012/775.087

[Adub]

I agree that the minimum sentence will be 60 years, 60+47 = life). This Judge will go with the minimum. The probation report will show that Dunn has no prior felonies. And that he has been a law abiding (racist asshole) citizen. The 20 years for each felony, by law, have to run consecutively. Count #5 may add 15 years but who fucking cares?

The societal problem is that Dunn gets 60 years for not murdering black kids ? Had he actually murdered them? Would it have been an acquittal? Justified? Hung? The irony is not lost on me. Dunn should have shot them all dead. Then he would have walked out a free man awaiting the States decision to re-file charges. Makes me want to get up and scrub the toilet.

Just all too troubling that some on the jury believed that Dunn was justified. But a hung jury is better than an acquittal.

[HairOfTheDog]

It's very troubling if any one on the jury believed the Dunn was justified, given the evidence.

It's possible that none of them thought so and there were some hold outs who wouldn't go down from 1^st degree to 2^nd degree. But, I think that's highly unlikely based on the jury questions about whether finding Dunn justified on one of the counts meant that that they had to find him justified on the others. Seems much more likely at least one or more of the jurors thought Dunn was justified in shooting Jordan, but not justified in continuing to shoot at the car full of boys as they tried to get away. I hope one or more of the jurors decides to give an interview and provide some insight, even if they keep their identities hidden. I'd like to know the nature of the deadlock.

I was really off base upthread on speculating about the possible sentencing. The Florida laws are strange to me, but think I understand them now. Dunn could have gotten 10 years only if he'd been convicted of manslaughter using a firearm (9.25 years to 30 years is the sentencing range), not second degree murder with a firearm (25 to life) - and only if he'd been acquitted of the other charges given the consecutive sentencing guidelines.

To me, it seems too easy to lie and avoid a conviction for killing someone using the self-defense laws in the state. BUT, if you use a firearm in the commission of a felony in Florida and get convicted, you're likely to do more time than a lot of other states.

A hung jury was much better than acquittal, for sure. Today was Jordan Davis's 19^th birthday. At least his parents didn't have to struggle with Dunn being declared justified in killing their unarmed son who never touched the man. They reportedly gave Angela Corey their agreement to retry Dunn for Jordan's murder. Will be interesting to see if that happens after sentencing is handed down for the attempted murders and, if so, whether he's charged again with 1^st degree or instead 2^nd degree.

[Duchess]

I think it's a very bad idea to ask a jury to determine the reasonableness of a defendant's fear. The people on the jury will only have their own experiences to go by. Some people are fearless while others quake at the sound of a creaking floor in the night. However, I am glad they determined he was trying to kill those kids and not defend himself. At least that's my understanding of it.

I don't ever want to be on a jury. No fuckin' way.

[HairOfTheDog]

I think it's a very bad idea to ask a jury to determine the reasonableness of a defendant's fear.

It's tricky with any self-defense laws, but especially the ones where the burden is on the prosecution to disprove the claimed mindset of the defendant - like in Florida.

If you're on a jury where the burden is to determine whether the defendant acted in accordance with what a "reasonable person" would believe/do, it's less subjective. IMO.

I think it's quite possible that 12 people, regardless of their own proclivity for fear, could agree on whether a reasonable person would approach a car full of teens and tell them to turn their music down at a public place where the defendant would only be for a matter of minutes anyway. And, whether it was reasonable for the defendant to approach the car and ask the victims if they were talking amongst themselves about him, rather than just finish his business and leave. And, whether it was reasonable for the defendant to go to his car, retrieve a gun, prepare and shoot at a car full of kids rather than put the car in reverse, pick up his chick, and move along - even if he thought he saw a weapon. And, whether it was reasonable to be in mortal fear at all given all of those circumstances and options. And, whether it was reasonable to believe the boys had a gun but never returned fire when they were shot at multiple times, and to keep shooting at them. And whether it was reasonable for the defendant to flee and never call police if he thought he was justified in opening fire and there was a gang of killers on the loose...

But, in this case, with the legal statutes in play, even if everyone on the jury agreed that the defendant's stories and actions were not those of a reasonable person, they might still find it very difficult to reach a unanimous consensus that the defendant was lying about being in reasonable fear for his life, in HIS own mind, at the time he decided to the pull the trigger. That's where I think the law is flawed.

[Duchess]

I used to have faith in my fellow man but after years spent reading the crime forum I have decided that was misplaced. I no longer feel as if I can count on most people to even exhibit common sense and I now view all juries as a crap shoot.

[HairOfTheDog]

JUROR #4 (VALERIE) SPEAKS OUT



Her beliefs:
"I believed he was guilty," Valerie said in an interview with ABC's "Nightline" early Wednesday. Also known as Juror No. 4, she asked that her full name not be given in order to protect her identity.

For Valerie, it never should have happened at all. Dunn could have chosen another path.

"Roll your window up, ignore the taunting, put your car in reverse ... move a parking spot over. That's my feeling."

Regarding the murder charge - jury deadlocked over self-defense:
On the murder charge, Valerie said the jury split over the issue of self-defense.

Florida law says the use of deadly force is justifiable if someone reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm.

Valerie said the jury's first vote was 10-2 in favor of a murder conviction. Over nearly 30 hours of deliberations, the vote became 9-3.

Regarding the attempted murder convictions:
Ultimately, the jury convicted Dunn on the charges of attempted murder.

Valerie said all the jurors felt Dunn crossed a line when he continued to fire at the SUV as it fled the scene. In their minds, any threat Dunn may have felt before had passed.

"We all believed that there was another way out, another option," she said.

Jordan Davis' parents response to verdicts:
Ron Davis, the victim's father, told ABC's "Good Morning America" he believed Dunn should have been found guilty of first-degree murder. But the father said he thought jurors tried hard to render a just decision.

"We believe absolutely with all of our hearts that they did everything that they could to come to what they believe was the most just decision," said Jordan Davis' mother, Lucia McBath. "We do now know that they were torn."

Ref:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/19/justice/fl...?hpt=hp_t2

[HairOfTheDog]

MURDER RETRIAL


Prosecutor John Guy

Assistant State Attorney John Guy told Action News in Jacksonville, Florida that he will retry Michael Dunn for 1^st Degree murder in May. Dunn is to be sentenced for his attempted murder convictions on March 24^th.

When asked by the news anchor, "Did Michael Dunn get away with murder?" Guy answered, "Not yet."

Guy said prosecutors will certainly take a look as to how the jury came to its decision in advance of a second trial.

[Duchess]

I don't want to nitpick here but if the shooter will spend the rest of his life behind bars, isn't that enough? I ask because the expense of these trials puts a huge burden on the state.

[HairOfTheDog]

I have mixed feelings about a retrial.

On the one hand, it is expensive and Dunn will probably be sentenced to what equates to life in prison for the attempted murder convictions anyway. He won't have an opportunity to lose his shit and shoot somebody else.

On the other hand, there's a principle and a message to consider: you can't shoot and kill unarmed people, claim you were scared or thought you saw a weapon, change your story, flee the scene and never alert police....and then hide behind Florida's self-defense laws and get away with it.

And, Jordan Davis' parents want a murder conviction in the death of their son. I want them to have the justice they seek.

[Duchess]

there's a principle and a message to consider: you can't shoot and kill unarmed people, claim you were scared or thought you saw a weapon, change your story, flee the scene and never alert police....and then hide behind Florida's self-defense laws and get away with it.

I agree with that. We see that kind of shooting happening more & more, the elderly man in the other thread is a very good example. I don't believe that simply being frightened is a good enough excuse anymore to shoot someone dead.

[HairOfTheDog]

Sentence Delay / Dumped by Attorney

Dunn, 47, was scheduled to be sentenced on March 24 but his attorneys sought to delay the sentencing until after he's tried again on a first-degree murder charge. Retrial is scheduled to begin May 5^th.

Dunn already faces a maximum of 60 years in prison for the attempted murder charges on which he already has been convicted.

Defense attorney Cory Strolla argued during a hearing Monday for Dunn's sentencing to be delayed on the grounds that statements Dunn makes at a sentencing hearing could be used against him in his second trial.

Strolla also said Monday he is stepping down as Dunn's attorney and asked Judge Russell Healey to appoint public defenders (HOTD: not gonna get paid by someone who's broke and who's locked up no matter what the verdict in the murder retrial).

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/michael-dunn...t-for-may/