Double Standard

[ramseycat]

A friend had something about this on FB. Does the double standard still exist? Are girls still considered sluts if they sleep around? Are guys considered players if they do? Is there an age cutoff where the double standard goes away?

[Duchess]

Yes, a double standard still exists and it's not only having to do with sex. Men still get paid more than women for doing the same job, not in all instances but in many. If a guy is a go-getter in business his female counter part is a ball bustin' bitch. Women can't be aggressive in the same manner that men can and be looked upon equally. Let a woman voice a firm opinion or have a snarky remark and she's on the rag. Shit like that. Ugh.

[aussiefriend]

When you are a strong woman, you can provoke anger and hostility from men who are not secure in themselves. I have been on the receiving end of it. They really have nothing to be threatened about, just because you are being yourself doesn't mean that you want to disempower the male of the species. They are so used to women being a certain way that it is going to take time for them to settle down and stop being so aggressive and hateful towards women.

Double standards exists in all areas of male female interactions, the bedroom, the workplace, the family, social circles.

Men in Australia are in some cases proudly sexist. Not all men, to be sure, but it is definitely ingrained in our society.

[ZEROSPHERES]

I wonder if gay men feel more comfortable (than hetero-men) around a strong woman as they usually had a castrating mother and the relationship is a repeat of that early dymanic?

[blueberryhill]

Yes, there is certainly a double standard. Less so today, than when I was growing up. Equal rights has been a struggle for all minorities.
and....re gays being more comfortable with strong women; that is not true. Their mothers come in all sizes, shapes, and personalities. I don't
believe their mothers were castrating with exceptions, of course.
I think if truth be told, a lot of people are intimidated by strong women.

[aussiefriend]

I don't think so Zero. I think gay men have had to endure rejection from society and being excluded from patriarchal power circles as much as women. I had a gay friend tell me once, that there is such a thing as the 'gay glass ceiling'. I think the gay community is more accepting and less judgemental of women, but there probably is still some social status stuff that goes on there too. Single mothers are despised in our society, and looked down upon.

[username]

The Equal Rights Amendment for women never even passed.

Yes. Women are often seen as sluts while men are admired for their "belt notches". Assertive, confident, opinionated women are bitches while a guy acting the same way is just a guy. Let 's not even get in to how women are scrutinized for their dress and appearance.

[Maggot]

I like all you bitches because your tough and don't put up with shit. I think men appreciate that in a Motherly way.

[HairOfTheDog]

Single mothers are despised in our society, and looked down upon.

That's interesting, aussie. I've not been to Australia and know more about the cultural similarities than differences with the US.

Single parents are not generally looked down upon in the US, from my observations with my sisters, in various working environments, social activities, etc... From what I see, these days people tend to respect and acknowledge that it's hard work for single mothers and fathers to parent, and to also manage their households and jobs (and try to fit in a social life somewhere). There's really not a stigma attached to single parenthood anymore. Maybe some of the single parents here have a different first-hand perspective though?

Regarding the double standard in general -- yeah, it still exists --but less so as time goes by, IMO. Equal pay for equal work is something that I'm glad to see President Obama addressing again. On a social level, women often look down on other women more than do men towards women, in my experience. When it comes to imposing standards of what's "right" for women, it's women who I hear commenting the most about other women's clothing, "sluttiness", etc... But, it's possible that the men I know just care less about that stuff than most.

[Duchess]

I think single parents are some of the hardest working people out there, so are working moms/wives. Not only do they have to get themself ready for work everyday but others as well, and then you have to make breakfast, make sure everyone has what they need, push 'em out the door, get yourself to work, come home and work some more, dinner, laundry, homework, etc. From the outside looking in, it looks like it sucks!

[aussiefriend]

I'm glad you disagree with me as usual HoTD (you can't help yourself). But I didn't pull that one out of my arse. I actually studied this subject at University. It is actually proven by academics in social studies world wide. Germov even wrote a social scale in which single mothers are on the bottom. Single mothers even have a lower social status than single women.

There are even studies to show how single mothers are more prone to social alienation, mental illness, drug addiction etc. Because they are socially excluded they are also more likely to have a low socioeconomic status. Because of this low social status and social exclusion of single mothers, this may also discourage other women from fleeing domestic violence situations, because of the social prejudice that exists. They also realise that they will be further impacted by financial hardship if they leave a violent partner. These are true life stories of women who are single mothers. They are out there and they are very real.

The thing is, raising even one child is a two person job. If you are a single mother with little or no support you are essentially doing a two person job. If you also have employment, studies these are added stresses as well as the social rejection and alienation.

[crash]

Single mothers are despised in our society, and looked down upon.

I guess you are more qualified to make that statement than me, since you are one. I'd think the statement probably should read "Single mothers are treated differently to mothers from a family unit, in the societies that I associate with" or something like that. I don't agree with the term despised.

I've been a single parent for some years. I've seen public perception change in just my time. People no longer 'expect' mum, dad, 2.4 kids and a dog. People don't even blink anymore when it's mum & mum or dad and dad or just mum or just dad or Just Gran or just Uncle Henry. In the circles I travel, I don't see any single parents being treated much differently than any other parent*,let alone being despised.

Maybe they just despise you for being an unstable, over-emotional, over-exxageeative, borderline psychotic, crazy biatch?

* my disclaimer comes with age. If you're a teenage single mum with three kids, people will judge the fuck out of you here. Despise us still maybe harsh.

[aussiefriend]

Why do you people have to personal this? Keep me out of this. We are talking about a double standard that exists in our society.

I have a dear friend who is a single father, he does not have the same hardships as single mothers that I know. He is seen as a "great guy" who is doing a "great job". However, he does have at times financial pressures even though he is an academic, his family commitments do not give him the freedom to do what other professional men his age are able to do.

[crash]

You 'personal' it when you put yourself out there so much. When you speak for all and sundry. When you make hyperbolic examples to try and give your statements credence. When you judge people and dismiss them because of your perception if their lack of academia.

[aussiefriend]

I am talking about this discussion. I do not judge people by their lack of academia. That is not true. My statements in this argument is based on what I have studied at Uni. It's not a big deal, it's fact. The fact that you are trying to degrade me in the process weakens your point. And it's not relevant to what I am talking about. To be honest, I am a little tired of you doing it. I just think I am going to ignore it if you continue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_adop..._Australia

[FAHQTOO]

I do not judge people by their lack of academia. That is not true. I just think I am going to ignore it if you continue.

Bullshit, you judgmental crazy bitch.

Bullshit...you can't ignore anyone for long. You always have to have the last word, Crazy Lady.

[ramseycat]

Aussie, you do realize that anyone can put stuff on Wiki right? I'm not sure I would use that sure as a reference when trying to make a point.

I find it very hard to believe people in your country "despise" singles mothers. How can your society despise a group of people because they are single, women, and mothers? I do sometimes notice that when I meet new people the wives can be bitchy or cliquy. For some reason they feel threatened by a single or divorced lady. Especially if their husband is friendly to her. I've experienced this first hand. I always want to say look lady I have no more interest in your husband than I do in chewing broken glass. No need to worry. I do think their attitude has more to do with the fact that their husbands are dogs than the fact that I am a single mom.

[HairOfTheDog]

Jesus Christ, aussie. Can you even see what you did here?

Me:
That's interesting, aussie. I've not been to Australia and know more about the cultural similarities than differences with the US.

You:
I'm glad you disagree with me as usual HoTD (you can't help yourself). But I didn't pull that one out of my arse.

How the heck you got from me expressing a genuine interest in a possible cultural difference between Australia and the US (based on something you posted) to me disagreeing with you is beyond me. I was ignorant as to what it's like in Australia -- as I stated.

You did the same thing when I told you that I didn't know about Australia's welfare and CPS/Foster programs and explained how it works in the U.S. Your response: "don't fucking piss me off".

REF: http://mockforums.net/showthread.php?tid=10705&page=2

Yeah, I know the next day came the Heineken excuse, which was fine. So, you drunk now too?

Looks more like it's you that can't help yourself from being combative and defensive for no cause when it comes to any attempt to engage with you in topical exchange. No worries -- easy enough to avoid putting you in such a spot again.

[crash]

I am talking about this discussion. I do not judge people by their lack of academia. That is not true. My statements in this argument is based on what I have studied at Uni. It's not a big deal, it's fact. The fact that you are trying to degrade me in the process weakens your point. And it's not relevant to what I am talking about. To be honest, I am a little tired of you doing it. I just think I am going to ignore it if you continue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_adop..._Australia

Oh here we go..here come the making it personal/picking on me/misogynistic/weak attempt blurbs again..

You're very well schooled at being the victim, that's for sure. Here lies Loosey Loo; forever in search of validation

And your link is of no real relevance. It's not from an academic source, it pertains to a practice that was common thirty to forty even fifty years ago. Try harder..

[HairOfTheDog]

I've been a single parent for some years. I've seen public perception change in just my time. People no longer 'expect' mum, dad, 2.4 kids and a dog. People don't even blink anymore when it's mum & mum or dad and dad or just mum or just dad or Just Gran or just Uncle Henry. In the circles I travel, I don't see any single parents being treated much differently than any other parent*,let alone being despised.

That's similar to how it is here; though I think the same-sex parents part may be more specific to San Francisco than the entire country. My mom still blinks.

Often people assume my niece is my daughter when we're out and about. No one thinks anything of the fact that it's clearly just the two of us, as far as I can see. Single parenting is very common across the country and anyone who's offended by people with children getting divorced will be offended a lot, given the divorce rates in the US.

Having children without being married isn't something that causes many blinks from people here anymore either - at least, not that I've observed or encountered. I do have a couple of cousins whose parents wish there was a husband in the picture, rather than a live-in partner or ex. Still, they love their grand kids like crazy and help my cousins out with daycare and such.

Mostly where I perceive some "despising" of single moms here in the US is towards those who put their children last and invite shady men into the home -- or those who bring a lot of children into the world with no means or intent to provide for them, aside from gov't assistance. There's some of that same disdain directed at the fathers of those children, but I don't think it's as harsh as it is towards the mothers. There may be a double standard in that regard, based on my limited observation.

Anyway, interesting to hear your perspective as a single parent in Australia, crash.