School & Public Stabbings

[sally]

When I asked FU how fast he could shoot his targets 21 ft. away or more he said "draw, aim, shoot 4 rounds [at 2 different targets], change magazine, aim and shoot 6 more rounds [at 3 different targets], all in under 7 seconds." Now after he shoots the people in closest range to him that means he can still hit several people several ft. away running for safety. Not an easy task for a guy with just one knife.

He also said that he trains for this shit unlike most of these wackos, but how does he know that? I'm sure there are plenty of nuts out there who have trained and are good at hitting their targets even from 21 ft. away.

Even someone who has never trained has a better chance of shooting you from 21 ft. away than stabbing you.

[F.U.]

I base my assumptions on their kill/wounded/shots fired ratio Sally. I don't see how these people can be training and having such a low kill count.
Lets use me as a example. First room I walk in has 20 people in it, judging from my competition history I will be running about a 70-80 percent kill, so what's that about 15 people and that's before I leave the first room. And judging from my time history I should be able to do that in about 1 minute. Depending on the response time of the LEO I should have at least 5 minutes to sweep a floor/several rooms. I don't think it would be unrealistic for someone like me to pop at least 40 victims in that amount of time.
For those that say it would be much lower for me because it wouldn't be like my training because the targets would be moving and so would I. Well that's how I train. Moving targets, sliding targets, swinging targets all while I am on the move. We kick in doors, shoot through windows, shoot while crouched and any number of other positions.
I know that sounds bad and makes me like a guy that has given this some thought, but I just look at this realistically. These guys are amateurs with little to no training.

[Blindgreed1]

I base my assumptions on their kill/wounded/shots fired ratio Sally. I don't see how these people can be training and having such a low kill count.
Lets use me as a example. First room I walk in has 20 people in it, judging from my competition history I will be running about a 70-80 percent kill, so what's that about 15 people and that's before I leave the first room. And judging from my time history I should be able to do that in about 1 minute. Depending on the response time of the LEO I should have at least 5 minutes to sweep a floor/several rooms. I don't think it would be unrealistic for someone like me to pop at least 40 victims in that amount of time.
For those that say it would be much lower for me because it wouldn't be like my training because the targets would be moving and so would I. Well that's how I train. Moving targets, sliding targets, swinging targets all while I am on the move. We kick in doors, shoot through windows, shoot while crouched and any number of other positions.
I know that sounds bad and makes me like a guy that has given this some thought, but I just look at this realistically. These guys are amateurs with little to no training.

Add to that, the people 21 or more feet away aren't going to just stand there and wait to be shot. They will be taking evasive action as the shooter takes out the targets in closest proximity. So yeah, just as likely to survive the shooter as the guy with the knife.

[HairOfTheDog]

I'm very glad none of the four victims in yesterday's school stabbing died.

I'm also very glad that none of the 20 victims stabbed by the high school student in the OP died.

I can't recall a case where a mass public shooter failed to tally any fatalities.

In any case, guns are the most popular weapons used for killing people in the U.S., by a long shot. That's just a fact and there are reasons why criminals and nut jobs prefer guns over more readily accessible knives.



^ I formatted and took a photo of the FBI stats: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr...ta-table-8

If a criminal or nut job was already right up in my grill with an intent to kill me, I'd take my chances with a gun as opposed to a knife. At that point, it's a matter of trying to get the weapon or overpower the person. Guns are easier/safer to grab than knives.

If it's instead a matter of someone coming at me from a distance with weapon in sight, they can shoot and incapacitate/kill me without making any personal contact - leaving me no chance to run or put up a fight. So, I'll take my chances with a knife-wielder as opposed to a gun-wielder.

If the criminal is intent on killing as many people as possible before he/she gets taken down, I think a semi-automatic gun is by far his/her best weapon and my chances of being among the ones to get away are less than with a knifeman because guns can hit more targets with less effort.

I wouldn't take a knife to a gunfight, personally. Some of you apparently would. Different strokes.

[sally]

I'm very glad none of the four victims in yesterday's school stabbing died.

I'm also very glad that none of the 20 victims stabbed by the high school student in the OP died.

I can't recall a case where a mass public shooter failed to tally any fatalities.

In any case, guns are the most popular weapons used for killing people in the U.S., by a long shot. That's just a fact and there are reasons why criminals and nut jobs prefer guns over more readily accessible knives.



^ I formatted and took a photo of the FBI stats: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr...ta-table-8

If a criminal or nut job was already right up in my grill with an intent to kill me, I'd take my chances with a gun as opposed to a knife. At that point, it's a matter of trying to get the weapon or overpower the person. Guns are easier/safer to grab than knives.

If it's instead a matter of someone coming at me from a distance with weapon in sight, they can shoot and incapacitate/kill me without making any personal contact - leaving me no chance to run or put up a fight. So, I'll take my chances with a knife-wielder as opposed to a gun-wielder.

If the criminal is intent on killing as many people as possible before he/she gets taken down, I think a semi-automatic gun is by far his/her best weapon and my chances of being among the ones to get away are less than with a knifeman because guns can hit more targets with less effort.

I wouldn't take a knife to a gunfight, personally. Some of you apparently would. Different strokes.

That's all common sense, but neither BG or FU will admit it because they run the chance of us printing out everything they say and taking it to the supreme court in an effort to have AR-15's banned.

[HairOfTheDog]

That's all common sense, but neither BG or FU will admit it because they run the chance of us printing out everything they say and taking it to the supreme court in an effort to have AR-15's banned.

I guess that could happen. But, why go to the trouble?

I could just send Ruth Bader Ginsburg a link to this thread so she can read their posts.

That'll arm her with a good argument as to why guns aren't really needed for self-defense or militia anyway, since knives are just as effective and efficient.

[sally]

Good idea. BG has already proven that you can take out just as many people at a distance with a knife as you can with a gun. Well unless you're FU with a gun, but no one else in the world has had his extensive training so he'll just have to eat it and take one for the team.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

One good thing to come from the stabbings...
We have a pro gun convert

http://www.allenbwest.com/2015/11/hero-i...d-on-guns/

[HairOfTheDog]

One good thing to come from the stabbings...
We have a pro gun convert

http://www.allenbwest.com/2015/11/hero-i...d-on-guns/

^ Byron Price seems to be a good guy; I can see why he'd see the value of concealed carry after what he experienced.

He was able to defend himself against the knifeman after he was first stabbed by using his feet, but a gun could have stopped the knifeman quickly in his tracks instead of sending him running to the next victim.

Price heard a scream from a classroom where the first student was stabbed. When the construction worker, 31, heard the commotion and intervened, he was stabbed in his left side by the assailant as he tried to stop the attack.

'I just kind of kicked at him,' Price added. 'It was a really big knife and he was swinging it down so I figured if I was on the ground and my feet were at him, he could get my legs and not my body. And it worked.

'He had a smile on his face, he was having fun - which is more what bothers me,' Price told a local station.

Price also revealed that he drove himself to hospital despite his injuries and received nine staples. He is now at home with his children and fiancée.

Sheriff Vern Warnke said that Price's entrance into the classroom likely prevented the death of the first victim who was attacked.

[Duchess]

I would hope to be so brave as that but I'm pretty sure if people are screaming I am going to be running in the opposite direction.

[HairOfTheDog]

UC Merced -- Assailant's Motive and Plan


^ Merced County Sheriff Vern Warnke/Coroner said a two-page "manifesto" detailing the knifeman's motive and plans to terrorize and kill several classmates at the University of California, Merced was found on his body Thursday during his autopsy.


Campus police shot and killed ^ Faisal Mohammad, 18, after the teen stabbed two students, a university employee and a construction contractor shortly after 8 a.m. PST Wednesday on the rural campus in the farm-rich San Joaquin Valley, 120 miles south of Sacramento. The four are expected to survive.

Mohammad's plan for revenge discussed his anger with being kicked out of the study group, the sheriff said, but he didn't know why the computer science and engineering major was excluded from the group.

Warnke said Mohammad planned to use plastic ties to bind the hands of his classmates to their desks in his Wednesday morning class. He was then going call police with a fake distress call and ambush responding officers with a hunting knife and steal their guns. He planned to use the guns to shoot a list of students he named in his "manifesto," including those in his study group.

"He had delusions of grandeur," the sheriff said. "I don't think he had any actual capability to carry it out." Warnke said Mohammad's plan was written in English and referenced the Muslim god Allah several times. But Warnke said the student was motivated by personal animosities and the attacks had nothing to do with religion or terrorism.

"We had a teenager who was upset he was kicked out of a study group," Warnke said. "We had a teenager who didn't know how to channel his anger." The sheriff said Mohammad was born in the United States. He said investigators didn't find any evidence of mental illness.

Full story: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/11/....html?_r=0

[F.U.]

Good idea. BG has already proven that you can take out just as many people at a distance with a knife as you can with a gun. Well unless you're FU with a gun, but no one else in the world has had his extensive training so he'll just have to eat it and take one for the team.

I don't know why I even bother with you hens. I try and joke around and have a little fun and its wrong. I try and seriously answer a direct question and Its wrong. Its a demand if you do, damned if you don't deal around here.

[Maggot]

I'm starting to believe that abortion is good.

[sally]

I don't know why I even bother with you hens.

Join the club. That's what all the men here say to themselves.

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't know why I even bother with you hens.

Join the club. That's what all the men here say to themselves.

And, it's not like the hens don't dodge a lot of doodle-doo being slung about up in this nest.

It ain't easy being tough old hens surrounded by soft old cocks.

I don't know if I wanna cry or make that ^ my signature line and carry on.

[Blindgreed1]

I'm very glad none of the four victims in yesterday's school stabbing died.

I'm also very glad that none of the 20 victims stabbed by the high school student in the OP died.

I can't recall a case where a mass public shooter failed to tally any fatalities.

In any case, guns are the most popular weapons used for killing people in the U.S., by a long shot. That's just a fact and there are reasons why criminals and nut jobs prefer guns over more readily accessible knives.



^ I formatted and took a photo of the FBI stats: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr...ta-table-8

If a criminal or nut job was already right up in my grill with an intent to kill me, I'd take my chances with a gun as opposed to a knife. At that point, it's a matter of trying to get the weapon or overpower the person. Guns are easier/safer to grab than knives.

If it's instead a matter of someone coming at me from a distance with weapon in sight, they can shoot and incapacitate/kill me without making any personal contact - leaving me no chance to run or put up a fight. So, I'll take my chances with a knife-wielder as opposed to a gun-wielder.

If the criminal is intent on killing as many people as possible before he/she gets taken down, I think a semi-automatic gun is by far his/her best weapon and my chances of being among the ones to get away are less than with a knifeman because guns can hit more targets with less effort.

I wouldn't take a knife to a gunfight, personally. Some of you apparently would. Different strokes.

They sure are. Thanks California and Illinois for making such strict gun laws and then surpassing the rest of the country in killings with guns. You folks are really showing the rest of the nation how it's done!

[F.U.]

I don't know why I even bother with you hens.

Join the club. That's what all the men here say to themselves.

And, it's not like the hens don't dodge a lot of doodle-doo being slung about up in this nest.

It ain't easy being tough old hens surrounded by soft old cocks.

I don't know if I wanna cry or make that ^ my signature line and carry on.

Cry and then make it your Sig line.

[HairOfTheDog]

Poor Gunnar, never quite able to hit a mark.

You've accomplished one thing in this thread though -- you managed to post quite a few comments that strict gun-control advocates could use to argue against the premise behind the second amendment (though they, like you, would be laughed at for presenting those points as in-context facts).

You should probably call Byron Price and point out to him how he shouldn't really be thinking about firearm concealed carry now, he only needs to grab a kitchen knife on his way out of the house and he'll be just as well equipped to stop a madman who's running away.

It's just too bad that Faison Mohammad couldn't get his hands on guns here; guns he thus wanted to steal from officers to shoot his classmates. What was he thinking, crazy kid!!!! There's no way in hell he could have killed more than zero people in a public setting with a gun.

[Blindgreed1]

Poor Gunnar, never quite able to hit a mark.

You've accomplished one thing in this thread though -- you managed to post quite a few comments that strict gun-control advocates could use to argue against the premise behind the second amendment (though they, like you, would be laughed at for presenting those points as in-context facts).

You should probably call Byron Price and point out to him how he shouldn't really be thinking about concealed carry now, he only needs to grab a kitchen knife on his way out of the house and he'll be just as well equipped to stop a madman who's running away.

It's just too bad that Faison Mohammad couldn't get his hands on guns here; guns he thus wanted to steal from officers to shoot his classmates. What was he thinking, crazy kid!!!! There's no way in hell he could have killed more than zero people in a public setting with a gun.

All I see here is supposition and more dramatic scenarios (shocker coming from you). You should protest.

[HairOfTheDog]

Cry and then make it your Sig line.

Nah, I like you well enough.

So, I wouldn't hone in your territory and risk ruffling your feathers again even if I actually was so sensitive.